PA65 NEW AAC piston/liner/rod/pin sets.

[Brian Gardner]

Gents,

I've had a thread in the classifieds section for these for a while and have only had 2 people asked to be placed on a waiting list for a production run of these. Quite surprising on one hand given they are out of production and quite popular. Also not surprising as the original parts last so well.

I have a good sample engine that has been loaned to me in preparation.

But if I don't get more than 2 people wanting them I can't justify making a production run. So I figured I'd post a thread here to see if that gets more interest going.

Brian

[Motorman]

Is this your first venture into AAC? The chroming process is quite different.

[Brett Buck]

Gents,

I've had a thread in the classifieds section for these for a while and have only had 2 people asked to be placed on a waiting list for a production run of these. Quite surprising on one hand given they are out of production and quite popular. Also not surprising as the original parts last so well.

I have a good sample engine that has been loaned to me in preparation.

   

   I think you more-or-less got it above. One other thing you might not fully appreciate is that, at least around here, more people ran the 61 rather than the 65. This was due to the former FAI 10CC rule. As soon as that got changed, Randy/Henry went to the 65, but not too long later, there was a 75. Most people still running IC are running the 75, for good reasons. I am probably the last person running a 61, it's a RO-Jett and it also doesn't wear out or need replacement parts.

     Some of the others are popular due to identified serious flaws (like the ST46) and for whatever reason, people are still trying to run some of these older engines. PA/RO-Jett, 40/46VF (for which there is already an AAC piston/liner, and the originals are nearly bulletproof), those are mostly specialist engines that only the few remaining top contenders still on IC would be interested in, and that is a very narrow market.

   As you note, the originals don't wear out under normal use, so any interest would be if it ran differently somehow, and most people will probably figure it runs well enough now. Any alterations I or someone else might suggest are, as far as I can tell, much different from what you would want to do otherwise, and would be highly speculative, and say, Todd might want one thing, Derek another, Brett another, all conflicting with each other.

     I think everyone appreciates and admires your efforts and the products seem to be of extraordinary quality. But as viable business suppling such a niche and contentious group, I don't see it and I am not too surprised that only a few signed up for it.

     Brett
   

[Brian Gardner]

Yes, I agree with all your points Brett,

It is all very subjective as to which size to choose to do.

I was specifically asked to do the 65 initially because some perceive this to be the best running version - whilst others would prefer the 75 because it was the latest and greatest of the lineage. I'm happy to do any of the displacements if the volume is there for cost effective production runs.

Some have requested I do it "while I'm still around" so they can buy spares for the future - rather than wait until they need them and I may no longer be around.

So if people for example want the 61 done because there are more out there in circulation/older/and getting closer to replacements I'm happy to oblige. It's all customer driven.

Brian

[Brett Buck]

Yes, I agree with all your points Brett,

It is all very subjective as to which size to choose to do.

I was specifically asked to do the 65 initially because some perceive this to be the best running version - whilst others would prefer the 75 because it was the latest and greatest of the lineage. I'm happy to do any of the displacements if the volume is there for cost effective production runs.

Some have requested I do it "while I'm still around" so they can buy spares for the future - rather than wait until they need them and I may no longer be around.

So if people for example want the 61 done because there are more out there in circulation/older/and getting closer to replacements I'm happy to oblige. It's all customer driven.

          And just to be clear, I think what you are offering is excellent, and I am sure if you did make them. everyone would get a top-quality result. So I am not at all trying to discourage you from trying.

      Brett

[Brian Gardner]

I've not taken it as discouragement at all Brett.

          And just to be clear, I think what you are offering is excellent, and I am sure if you did make them. everyone would get a top-quality result. So I am not at all trying to discourage you from trying.

      Brett

[Doug Moon]

   

   I think you more-or-less got it above. One other thing you might not fully appreciate is that, at least around here, more people ran the 61 rather than the 65. This was due to the former FAI 10CC rule. As soon as that got changed, Randy/Henry went to the 65, but not too long later, there was a 75. Most people still running IC are running the 75, for good reasons. I am probably the last person running a 61, it's a RO-Jett and it also doesn't wear out or need replacement parts.

     Some of the others are popular due to identified serious flaws (like the ST46) and for whatever reason, people are still trying to run some of these older engines. PA/RO-Jett, 40/46VF (for which there is already an AAC piston/liner, and the originals are nearly bulletproof), those are mostly specialist engines that only the few remaining top contenders still on IC would be interested in, and that is a very narrow market.

   As you note, the originals don't wear out under normal use, so any interest would be if it ran differently somehow, and most people will probably figure it runs well enough now. Any alterations I or someone else might suggest are, as far as I can tell, much different from what you would want to do otherwise, and would be highly speculative, and say, Todd might want one thing, Derek another, Brett another, all conflicting with each other.

     I think everyone appreciates and admires your efforts and the products seem to be of extraordinary quality. But as viable business suppling such a niche and contentious group, I don't see it and I am not too surprised that only a few signed up for it.

     Brett
   

Hello

I would say the number of people who stayed on the 61 vs the 65 is pretty small. Not very many people competed at the TT, 20 maybe and not all of them ran PA. When the 65 was in full swing it was all over the place at the nats. In our area it was king for many years. Mostly people went to the 75 because it became the only game in town.

Up until last year I was running the PA75 exclusively for 5 straight years. Lots of work to get that thing right. Then I got a message from someone that one of our stunt brethren was going into assisted living as was I interested in his NIB PA65. I couldn't answer YES fast enough.

Out goes the 75 and in with the 65 and BOOM all is right with world again. The envelope on this motor is huge. You can run it 9000 with loads of pitch or you can run 10700 with almost no pitch and everything in between. It cycles on and off like a breath of fresh air. The 61 can do this as well but it doesn't have that extra room like the 65. I ran 61 for a long time and it was excellent. I was talked to getting the 65 and the 61 has never seen the light of day again. It was a wedding present so it sits on a shelf now. 

I was able to do a direct comparison between the 65/75 on the same day in the same plane and 65 is just the right size. The props are a little smaller and that goes along way in many areas especially trim. The 75 requires a little more work to trap it into a range otherwise it can be a handful. Don't get me wrong I had it working well but it's not how I really prefer. The 65 in my opinion is the best IC hands down. It's just the right size for the models we fly.

I hope there is enough interest to make a run. But I fear with the electric on the scene that may not be the case as that is a very viable option these days and the 75 is still all over the place. I have 3 right now.

[Gordon Tarbell]

Hope this not too far off topic but can the PA 61 be converted to the 65 by boring the case to accept the 65 PL and matching cyl head?

[Brian Gardner]

I don't have one of each on hand to compare. I only have a 65 here to copy.

Hope this not too far off topic but can the PA 61 be converted to the 65 by boring the case to accept the 65 PL and matching cyl head?

[Brett Buck]

Hope this not too far off topic but can the PA 61 be converted to the 65 by boring the case to accept the 65 PL and matching cyl head?

A far easier solution would be to find someone with a PA65 lying around after they went to the 75 or electric and asking them to trade. Or more likely, thru might just give it to you. And no, I don’t have one or I probably would just give it to you. Boring the case and keeping it straight and round is a non-trivial operation.

   Brett

[Brian Gardner]

The list is currently at 12 sets.

I need that to more than double to make this viable.