P40 event and the loss of the OS 40

[Paul Taylor]

How will the loss of the OS .40 effect the P40 event. Will they allow .46 size to fly?
I know there are other .40 engines out there but for the money the OS was a nice choice.
 

[Randy Powell]

Paul,

There are many, many, many other choices and not expensive ones. In the Northwest, we are considering taking the ".40" limitation from the event. All the same rules around profile fuse and various limitations, but just going with the standard 15cc rule. Hey, I can't wait to build my P-40 with a Saito 56. 

[proparc]

I am repeating it here because a lot of the guys down here in Socal are already flying there 46's with .015's in non competition flying-no problems.

We really need to ditch the .018 line requirement for .46's. Enough is enough.  Lines will not break if we use .015 on 46's for cryin out loud.  .015's for 46's should have been a done deal decades ago.  Get with it!!

[Leo Mehl]

I agree. The rules oare outdated. I think it would be OK except for 40 and 45 size piped ships that put out a lot more power.

[peabody]

I believe that it's mighty, mighty hard to ease any requirement/regulation that is safety related, or perceived to be....

[Leester]

Paul: Just cause they discontinued the LAS doesn't mean they aren't around. The LA 40 just needs the Venturi and NVA. The FP 40 was disc. and there still all over the place.

[Elwyn Aud]

Isn't 40 just the maximum normally allowed?  There are lots of great flying planes that can get by with a smaller motor.

[john e. holliday]

Hey if the rain lets off I am flying the Primary Force with an LA-25 in PAMPA ADV & P-40.   DOC Holliday

[Bill Little]

Isn't 40 just the maximum normally allowed?  There are lots of great flying planes that can get by with a smaller motor.

Hi Elwyn,

AFAIK, you are correct, .40 is the maximum allowed.   Under those rules I just might use a RD-1 and a Webra 28 or 32, or maybe a Prowler with the same.

There are soooooo many profiles that fly great with .28 to .40 engines out there now!  And I ain't even including the Primary Force with I think can safely fly with a LA 25. 

Heck, how about the Skyray or Flite Streak with the OS 20FP!!!!!!!  A "pukey profile"!! 


Bill <><

[Bill Little]

Someone mentioned the OS 40FP.  With all due respect to all the engine greats out there, the very best ".40" I have ever used on a profile is an old FP 40 that I bought "VERY USED" off of Byron Barker.  It still purrs like a sewing machine and hauls everything I put it on like a Mack Truck with the prettiest 4-2 you ever saw!

Bill <><

[Alan Hahn]

Hi from Geneva Switzerland.
Paul,
I heard that the LA40S was discontinued, not the LA40. Now I am guessing that the LA40 might be following in the LA40S footsteps, but if people want an LA40, just buy it now. Yes you need a venturi, but if it is a backup LA40, you could just share the one venturi.

[Leester]

I just went to Towers site and put in OS 13400 that is the mfgr's number for the 40 LA S. It shows it as in stock. But will they put it on close out at a cheaper price???

[Louis Rankin]

Paul,

Don't worry about engine size.  Most contests in our area do not have an engine limit on the profile event.  But if you need a 40 there is always the Brodak 40.  Much better running engine than the LA.

[Bob Reeves]

Guess I still don't understand... The Brodak 40 runs better, is better built and by the time you buy an LA with the RC carb and change out the venturi you have as much invested as the Brodak. And... if you get one of the LA 40's that tends to like to run away you will spend more money getting it reworked or start adding head shims and choking it down to get something that runs like a Fox with the power of a Fox.

I like the LA 46 but when it comes to 40's I wouldn't buy an LA or an FP, just too big a chance. Ya I have seen some that run great but have also seen and experienced just as many that couldn't be tamed without rework. As I have said I won't miss it.

having it gone will not change the P-40 event, too many other choices.

[Bill Little]

Dare I say it??  Fox .35, Double Star .40, McCoy .35 Red Head, etc. Lots of mentions on here of lower disp. engines.  I flew a Magician for many years with a Fox .35 or a K&B .35 Green Head.
The P40 event came about as  I understand it, to get people flying and flying PA without having to build a big fancy stunt ship.  The engine limit kept it under a brazillion bucks to enter. But then I could be full of it. 

I am sure you are correct about the origins of the event, Ty.  I flew my Brodak Zero Prototype (according to many) better than almost anything else I have had.  It had a well worn OS 35S in it!  But is was light and straight and trimmed out easily!

Wish you would come back up here this year!

Bill <><

[Steve Helmick]

Yeah. Nothin' to keep you from building a profile for a PA or RO-Jett .40 and hanging a pipe on it, either. Which I think is more detrimental to the event than allowing any engine, and building a bigger profile and putting a .46LA, G.51, or Saito .56 on a suitable profile. We've only had one guy in the PNW flying P.40 with a carbon pipe, and he happens to object to opening the event up for (basically) .46LA's,  G.51's, and Magnum .53's. Jump to your own conclusions here.  Steve

 

[Bill Little]

Yeah. Nothin' to keep you from building a profile for a PA or RO-Jett .40 and hanging a pipe on it, either. Which I think is more detrimental to the event than allowing any engine, and building a bigger profile and putting a .46LA, G.51, or Saito .56 on a suitable profile. We've only had one guy in the PNW flying P.40 with a carbon pipe, and he happens to object to opening the event up for (basically) .46LA's,  G.51's, and Magnum .53's. Jump to your own conclusions here.  Steve

Well, from a cost an flyability standpoint, a Cunnigham "Mo' Best" and a ST G51 would be great for Profile.  The cost wold not be up there at all. 

Around here, Limtations (Dale Barry's take off on the "Imitation, a true "Profile"), TEOSAWKI, and Profile Cardinals seem to be favorites along with the Broak Warbirds and the occasional Pathfinder.  But we don't have a displacement rule......... never the less, it is popular!  And yes, I have seen Ro-Jett 40SE's in Profile.   No matter what, unless you set a "dollar figure" on the engines using  MSRP, then you will get some that have the money and will go High Zoot on the rest.

If I were building to the ".40 rule", I would probably use a Magnum 36 XLIIS, the biggest bang for the buck in my book!

Bill <><

[Paul Smith]

To allow  .46's, with or without .015 or .018 lines, would be be unfair to everyone who has invested time and money into 40-powered stunters.

A rule is a rule and we have to draw a line somewhere.

If you want of go "over-40" just fly AMA or FAI Stunt.  P40 was created so some of us could fly stunt with buying 75's or electric motors and $2,000 worth of batteries.

If money is not object, there are a world of events to buy.

[Steve Helmick]

To allow  .46's, with or without .015 or .018 lines, would be be unfair to everyone who has invested time and money into 40-powered stunters.

A rule is a rule and we have to draw a line somewhere.

If you want of go "over-40" just fly AMA or FAI Stunt.  P40 was created so some of us could fly stunt with buying 75's or electric motors and $2,000 worth of batteries.

If money is not object, there are a world of events to buy.

Well, gee, I thought the idea was to get folks flying Stunt. 'Scuse me! If a guy has a Mo'Best,  Pathfinder, Cardinal, Berserker,  or Col. Tom's P-51 (recent SN), with a .40+ , I'd like to let them fly. It doesn't make a .35 or .40 powered model non-competitive. If you think so, ask the Ozzies about some bloke with a Heartbeat Models profile Sukhoi who won their NATS...what...TWICE with it! OS .40FP powered!

Lots of us are getting older and retiring, some (not me) actually have a decent retirement income and can travel around the country and fly in contests all over. Wouldn't it be nice if all the rules were the same, I ask? Most areas of the country don't use displacement rules, just fly Profile Stunt. They don't regret their decision to lose the restrictions, and just let 'em fly. I like it.

Uhhhh...you thought that .46's would be using .015's because of this being "P.40 Revised Edition"? Just like you'd be using .015's on your .21FP powered Flite Streak, because,  you're flying it in P.40?! C'mon...that's just stoopid. You have to ref the AMA line size and pull test regs. Easy enough, that's the way to write these non-AMA events, to protect yourself from liability problems. If somebody thinks .46's should use .015's, they should submit a rule change proposal. Our man Dave Gardner managed to get the lines changed to .012's for .25's, without a major fist fight. Great idea! 

The #1 REASON that I proposed the NW P.40 event be changed to Profile Stunt, with the same power rules as PA: Dummies keep writing it as "P-40". It's not for Curtiss Warhawks, tho it's ok, if one insists...    Steve

[Mark Scarborough]

Steve,
with all due respect, if you fly a profile with a .40 on it, you CAN fly it anywhere in the country. There are still areas other than the northwest that go with the displacement limit. Now about electrics,,,,,,,,

[Bill Little]

HI All,

The size of airplane and engine has very little to do with the actual outcome of an event when flown in competition.  The pilot has the greatest effect if it is a decent design.

Cost is not directly related to size, either.  You can buy brand new ST G51 engines for $79.95, or less, so engine size isn't totally cost related.  Doesn't cost much more to build a Mo' Best than most any other Profile, either.  Or a Profile CArdinal w/LA 46.

It's never been a problem in this area, and we've never had a engine rule.  So, IMHO, dropping the ".40" requirement will not alter the event in any case.

Bill <><