Ringmaster Modifications

[petermick]

I am going to build a Ringmaster for the 2018 VSC contest using an RSM kit. What modifications can be made to the Ringmaster to keep it VSC legal?  Are adjustable leadouts and tip weight box ok? What about an extra cowl cheek? I will be using a Fox 35 for power.

Thanks
Peter Mick
AMA 9581

[John Paris]

Peter,
I built one for VSC a number of years ago and it had a tip weight box as well as adjustable leadouts.  This too was powered by a 35 stunt with tongue muffler and metal tank.  Seems like it took over an ounce on the tail to balance.  Harder/heavier tail wood would certainly help out.  I used 1/8" wire for landing gear, but have seen a number of them with 3/32".  There should be some weight savings there, but you will need to be more cautious on the landings.  You may also see some gear in slightly different positions with those having wheels closer to the LE of the wing showing some improved takeoff and landing characteristics.

I do not think a cheek cowl would be allowed, but some CF between the doublers and fuse will help stiffen the noise section a bit.  I think that the RSM kit also includes the doublers that extend back over the wing more to improve the nose strength for a minor weight penalty.

Good luck and enjoy.

John

[Matthew Brown]

I have read/heard the elevator on the ringmaster is too big and that it should be narrowed by about 1/3 it's chord while maintaining similar shape. Would this be too extreme to qualify for Vintage?

Thanks, Matt

[Randy Powell]

I prefer this modification....

[peabody]

Hi att...
Any changes to the dimensions, size or shape of the wing, stab, elevator and fuselage disqualify the model from OTS.
Internal structural changes are permitted....
PAMPA has guidelines for the event.

Have fun!

[Randy Powell]

Man, Peabody, you have no sense of humor at all.

[peabody]

Heartless....

As you know, I have been selling off Ward VanDuzer's modeling stuff. Ward and I used to go round and round, because he felt that OTS should be a SCALE event....no modifications from plan at all, period engines, etc.

As an ex-GSCB guy that got to know John Miske pretty well, I know that John was fine with modifications that PAMPA allows....he felt that if stuff flew better and was FUN, the event would prosper. (I cannot imagine what Miske would think about electrics).

I would imagine that both Ward and John might scoff at some modifications being made today.....landing gear location and angle....some flap configurations, etc.....

Yup.....I'm cruel.

Have fun!

[Jim Hoffman]

Hi Peter,
Great to hear you plan to come to VSC 2018

Attached to this post are:
•   VSC Ringmaster Rules
•   PAMPA OTS rules that we use at VSC
•   VSC flyer

I notice that there are more smiles per sq. foot at the VSC Ringmaster circle than at any contest I have EVER attended

The RSM kit is Ringmaster legal.  Be sure to keep the LG placement per the plans.  Mr. Peabody’s comments are correct.  Cheek cowl would be not legal. 

My limited experience w/ Fox 35’s is that they respond well to nitro.  I would start at 15% in Tucson.

Looking forward to seeing you in March

Jim Hoffman 
VSC CD

[Steve Helmick]

I have read/heard the elevator on the ringmaster is too big and that it should be narrowed by about 1/3 it's chord while maintaining similar shape. Would this be too extreme to qualify for Vintage?

Thanks, Matt

No, not allowed. However, you can use a 4" bellcrank if you can fit it, and you can use the longest elevator horn you can make fit. I believe you can add a tailwheel/strut to make that long elevator horn practical. ANY aerodynamic change is strictly verboten. Structural changes are allowed, but they can't affect the aerodynamics. You might want to get a copy of the OTS rules off the AMA or PAMPA website. Brodak's website may also have the OTS rules, but I wouldn't be quite as confident in the accuracy.  Steve

[Dennis Toth]

Generally, the S1 Ringmaster works well with anything from a 19 to a 25. The OS FP20 on the 9x4 APC prop (the Brett Buck setup) is a very good setup. Mods that are allowed and useful: adjustable leadouts; Carbon Fiber pushrod; tip weight box. You can use the 3" bellcrank but use the inner most hole (you could use a 3 1/2" I think Tom Morris has these), use ball links and a elevator horn of at least 1" to give adjustability. You only need about 25 deg elevator movement (more only causes it to stall). You need to use 1/8" for the stab and elevator to be legal (some have been using 3/16" but this is not legal and VSC will likely catch this). If you are going to use the Fox 35 with a muffler it will be nose heavy. For the Fox you should build up the stab from a core of 3/32" hard balsa (read that as heavy bomber wood) then cover it with 1/64" plywood on each side, adhered with epoxy (use the card scrape method to minimize to much epoxy). This gives a very stiff stab and adds the tail weight you will need. The balance on mine is around 18% back from the average cord leading edge. Go light on paint, I used a clear finish over colored silk.

Best,   DennisT

[Scott Richlen]

Don't forget to add a hook-on spot for a third line at the in-board tip of the horizontal tail so your Ringmaster can do what Ringmasters do best....

[john e. holliday]

I have a Fox 35 Stunt with muffler that my Ringmaster flies great or better than I do.   

[Terrence Durrill]

Generally, the S1 Ringmaster works well with anything from a 19 to a 25. The OS FP20 on the 9x4 APC prop (the Brett Buck setup) is a very good setup. Mods that are allowed and useful: adjustable leadouts; Carbon Fiber pushrod; tip weight box. You can use the 3" bellcrank but use the inner most hole (you could use a 3 1/2" I think Tom Morris has these), use ball links and a elevator horn of at least 1" to give adjustability. You only need about 25 deg elevator movement (more only causes it to stall). You need to use 1/8" for the stab and elevator to be legal (some have been using 3/16" but this is not legal and VSC will likely catch this). If you are going to use the Fox 35 it will be nose heavy. For the Fox you should build up the stab from a core of 3/32" hard balsa (read that as heavy bomber wood) then cover it with 1/64" plywood on each side, adhered with epoxy (use the card scrape method to minimize to much epoxy). This gives a very stiff stab and adds the tail weight you will need. The balance on mine is around 18% back from the average cord leading edge. Go light on paint, I used a clear finish over colored silk.

Best,   DennisT

                               Anybody ever fly a Sterling S-1 Ringmaster using a K&B Torpedo .19 greenhead ?  I have always used Fox .29 and .35 stunt engines (except when I was using the Torp .29 greenhead which was my favorite Ringmaster power plant). ......... I have several Torp .19 greenheads and am considering trying "the minimal recommended power option" just for kicks.              

[Dennis Toth]

If you build it light say 26 - 28 oz the Torp 19 should do fine, if you use a tongue muffler use a 9x6 cut to 8 3/4" diameter to reduce the heat load. I think the Torp would do well in a rich 2 cycle on 5 to 10% nitro fuel with 25% oil (50/50 will work fine). For the Fox on muffler I use a 9x6 3/4" RSM wood (I pitch up a 9x6, they pitch just like an APC props with heat at the hub).

Best,     DennisT

[Ken Burdick]

I had an S1 that was super light.....(used good wood) covered it with silkspan and dope. It flew the pattern very well with a Fox .35 stunt.

[Sean McEntee]

Use the 3" bellcrank and the longer, 1" plywood horn that comes in the kit. 

Bolt on a Fox 35 (No, motorman, it wont make it noseheavy.  Folks have been running Foxes on ringmasters longer than both of us have been alive) and go to town.

I built one of the first RSM Ringmaster kits.  Between me and Joe Gilbert alone, we've won scores of OT and many classic contests with ringmasters,  They are very capable when built light and that big elevator is tamed down a bit.

[George Albo]

Don't forget to add a hook-on spot for a third line at the in-board tip of the horizontal tail so your Ringmaster can do what Ringmasters do best....

Scott,
I'll be building my first Ringmaster ever and it will be for the fly-a-thon!  So what is this about third line?
Thanks
George Albo

[Dennis Toth]

Not to get to technical on the "nose heavy" balance but if you put a Fox 35 with a Fox standard muffler on it, the Ringmaster that is very light will balance very close to the leading edge which most would consider nose heavy. Will it do the OTS pattern balanced here - YES, but you need to be very careful on the wingover, vertical eight and square loop so as not to stall it. If you adjust the balance back to about the 15 - 18 % point it will be smoother and less prone to stall. If you go with no muffler, no spinner, wood prop and very light wheels with the Fox it might be in the 10 -15% range and work fine.

Best,    DennisT

[Scott Richlen]

George:

About the "third line": you should come to Brodaks and watch Dan Banjock fly his Ringmaster.  By pulling the third line you can point the nose out, in effect creating a throttle.  Once slowed down, you can point the nose up with the elevator and pretend that you are a helicopter.  It's what Ringmasters do best, IMHO.
 

[john e. holliday]

George:

About the "third line": you should come to Brodaks and watch Dan Banjock fly his Ringmaster.  By pulling the third line you can point the nose out, in effect creating a throttle.  Once slowed down, you can point the nose up with the elevator and pretend that you are a helicopter.  It's what Ringmasters do best, IMHO.
 

Would this work in carrier competition???

[Brett Buck]

Would this work in carrier competition???

  Yes, that's the way WAM Carrier always worked. I think you will find it illegal in AMA, but I am no expert on carrier rules.

     Brett

[FLOYD CARTER]

 :No matter which elevator horn you use, it will be too short!  For best results, get the longest Nylon R/C horn you can find, and make it longer!  Do this by adding some ply pieces for the horn mounting bolts.  You will have to extend your wire tailskid for this mod.

Floyd

[Brett Buck]

Not to get to technical on the "nose heavy" balance but if you put a Fox 35 with a Fox standard muffler on it, the Ringmaster that is very light will balance very close to the leading edge which most would consider nose heavy. Will it do the OTS pattern balanced here - YES, but you need to be very careful on the wingover, vertical eight and square loop so as not to stall it. If you adjust the balance back to about the 15 - 18 % point it will be smoother and less prone to stall. If you go with no muffler, no spinner, wood prop and very light wheels with the Fox it might be in the 10 -15% range and work fine.

     Note that balancing it on the LE, or at least way far forward, is probably OK, but you MUST, repeat, MUST, make the controls move very slowly in any case, as little as +-1/2" at the trailing edge of the elevator or so, with full hand motion. The further aft the CG, or the heavier the airplane is, or the weaker the engine is, the less movement you can tolerate.

   The CG is not at all critical, you can slightly adjust the feel of the controls with CG adjustments. If anything moving the CG aft makes it more prone to stalling, but it's not a strong effect.

     This is far more critical than  saving weight or even putting on a good engine.  Adjust it by going out an trying to stall it, and add or reduce motion until it can just barely be stalled with extreme handle motion with near-empty tank, then slow it down just a little more.

    Brett

[Sean McEntee]

Not to get to technical on the "nose heavy" balance but if you put a Fox 35 with a Fox standard muffler on it, the Ringmaster that is very light will balance very close to the leading edge which most would consider nose heavy. Will it do the OTS pattern balanced here - YES, but you need to be very careful on the wingover, vertical eight and square loop so as not to stall it. If you adjust the balance back to about the 15 - 18 % point it will be smoother and less prone to stall. If you go with no muffler, no spinner, wood prop and very light wheels with the Fox it might be in the 10 -15% range and work fine.

Best,    DennisT

Use tongue muffler; fly full pattern; win contests 

[Douglas Ames]

Scott,
I'll be building my first Ringmaster ever and it will be for the fly-a-thon!  So what is this about third line?
Thanks
George Albo

Streamer for Combat...

[Terrence Durrill]

Well, it was just a guess. I stopped using Fox on Ringmaster 56 years ago.

MM

           Just out of curiosity, for the Ringmaster, what engine did you replace the Fox with?  I liked the K&B .29 greenhead myself 56 years ago.          

[George Albo]

Streamer for Combat...

Streamers for combat are never placed on the inboard side of the stab. It is attached to a fixture, usually a simple hole or metal loop at the end of the fuse.

[Terrence Durrill]

I am going to build a Ringmaster for the 2018 VSC contest using an RSM kit. What modifications can be made to the Ringmaster to keep it VSC legal?  Are adjustable leadouts and tip weight box ok? What about an extra cowl cheek? I will be using a Fox 35 for power.

Thanks
Peter Mick
AMA 9581

                                                RINGMASTERS FOREVER !             

[john e. holliday]

Motorman, have you tried heat treating the piston in the kitchen range oven?   Also maybe you could find some one to chrome the set up for you.