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General control line discussion => Open Forum => Topic started by: Don Hutchinson AMA5402 on October 19, 2011, 08:13:24 AM
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Thinking about another profile warbird, the "H" Mustang. About 540 sq ins for an LA 46. Anyone have a reasonable three view of this airplane? 8&1/2 x 11 size will do.
Don Hutchinson
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Are these any good?
Found at http://www.airwar.ru/other/draw/p51wita.html
oopps, file format (TIF) not accepted. I'll convert...
Also one in color. Don't know if it is fantasy or "real".
edit: there was only one front/back view there, and it is for "D"
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I never cared for this version :P. Too much of an oddball. A "C" model would be nice since nobody offers one. The P-51D is plentiful in all sizes.
How about a profile Ju87d Stuka using your Corsair flap mechanism? Now that would be a looker!
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Doug-
The profile P-51 warbird I drew covered every version of the Mustang that escorted B-17s over Europe. It had the razorback with and without the dorsal fin with the standard canopy or the Malcolm hood as well as the bubble canopy D both with and without the dorsal. All my masters have gone to Jim Snelson at Control Line Central. Check with him for a copy.
Don
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PerttiMe-
Those drawings will be just fine but how do I print them?? All I get is the spinner back to the headrest in the canopy across the 8&1/2 inch width of the paper. Is there a techie out there that can help me??
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Thinking about another profile warbird, the "H" Mustang. About 540 sq ins for an LA 46. Anyone have a reasonable three view of this airplane? 8&1/2 x 11 size will do.
Don Hutchinson
Hello Mr. Don:
I can send you via snail mail a 2-page 3 view of the 51-H. 3 side views, 1 each showing Bombs, Tanks and clean. There is a top view and a bottom view plus one end view from front.
These are in the Squadron/signal publications "P-51 Mustang" D&S volume 51, P-51-D Through F-82H part 2. Standard 8 X 12 or close. 1/72nd scale 5 view drawing.
If this is the Don Hutchinson of AMA D-VIII, I have your address in the Stunt News. If you wish, I will get them out as soon as you say OK.
Personally I don't worry too much about copy-right as long as the reproduction is not for commercial sale or such.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Copyright Law of the United States of America
§ 107. Limitations on exclusive rights: Fair use40
Notwithstanding the provisions of sections 106 and 106A, the fair use of a copyrighted work, including such use by reproduction in copies or phonorecords or by any other means specified by that section, for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching (including multiple copies for classroom use), scholarship, or research, is not an infringement of copyright.
"....General Revision of the U.S. Copyright Law cites examples of activities that courts have regarded as fair use: “quotation of excerpts in a review or criticism for purposes of illustration or comment; ...."
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Glad to hear your up for some "doodling" again Don. y1
Personally I've never cared much for the H version, it always looked like an "on the cheap" imitation Mustang to me. Doesn't look nearly as cool as the "real" ones.
How 'bout we talk about some .25 size twins? S?P
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I resized two of the views to 40%. They might or might not fit on one page.
A printer might also have the options to Fit to Printable Area.
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OK, I got it this time. Many thanks. Now I have to go to work!!
Horace, yes it's me from District 8. Thank you for the offer but I can now save you a stamp! I have printed the above drawings and they are just what I was looking for.
Don
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OK, I got it this time. Many thanks. Now I have to go to work!!
HI Mr. Hutchinson!
All of your plans (I have all but 1 I think!) are excellent for building.
What I have not seen from your drafting board is any foreign "Warbirds". I would really like to see a FW 190-A, the short nose version. Everyone does the "D" or the TA 152. The original version FW 190 is the best looking to me.
Of course, Brodak has a "small" FW-190 in about a 48" WS (shortened '57 Nobler wing), but I like your designs better for realism and size. ;D
Bill
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Thanks for the kind word Bill. Both the T-6-G and the SBD took first places in profile at the Baton Rouge meet this last weekend. The T-6 has 1/8 hard balsa doublers, no ply at all and has 4 to 500 flights on it with no stress cracks anywhere. Both are very good flying airplanes. One of the other contestants asked for an "H" so I will see what I can do with it. As for non U.S. warbirds, none really ring a bell with me, as for a 25 sized twin, it would be a BIG airplane! I keep looking at the Martin Baltimore as it has a really good alignment of thrust line and flying surfaces plus a "quaint" profile. Two 15's would be a more reasonable size. The P-38 I did came out huge, relatively speaking.
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"Foreign" warbirds...
I think this one was pretty cool:
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For some strange reason, I much prefer "made in USA" Warbirds. y1
Jim
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For some strange reason, I much prefer "made in USA" Warbirds. y1
Jim
Me too, but an early FW-190 would be pretty cool. y1
As far as a twin goes, for a few years now I've been thinking that an HE-111 would be an excellent candidate.
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Mr. Don, your T-6 that Joe Gilbert flew was an outstanding performer. In my opinion, it is does the pattern better than his T-Rex/P-47/PIPED SUPER BELCH FIRE stunter. At least it did this past week end flying both days in identical wind. The only negative I noticed was the (4) stroke did not have the vertical drive of the belch fire. It stayed out on the lines, had sharp corners, had no wing wiggle waggle, or weather vaning in the overheads like some of the deep bodied-thick airfoil piped stunters do sometimes even in light wind. Hope I didn't start something by expressing my observation, But I believe I saw what I saw and the little "Yeller plane" out flew the big grey plane, but then again it was my eyes and my opinion. Yes, I like the '51H and would like to get plans for the T-6 too.
Cheers,
Doug
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Doug-
Yeah, that little rascal flies quite well. To get a set of the T-6 plans, you need to contact Jim Snelson at Control Line Central as he has all the original masters. I don't want to be in the plan business! When the P-51 H drawings are done I will see that you get a set for all your hard work setting up and running the Baton Rouge show.
Don
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Have to put in a word for Don's designs and Control Line Central. I built the prototype Dauntless from Don's plans and Jim Snelson's short kit. Pics in CLC vendors corner. Great flying profile...wait, amazingly great considering its scale proportions. LA-46 a good choice for engine. 8)
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Have to put in a word for Don's designs and Control Line Central. I built the prototype Dauntless from Don's plans and Jim Snelson's short kit. Pics in CLC vendors corner. Great flying profile...wait, amazingly great considering its scale proportions. LA-46 a good choice for engine. 8)
Has anyone finished the Profile Corsair yet? Would love to see some pics.
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I'm sorta looking at the Skyraider, too-------anyone have experience with it?
Jim
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Jim-
After doing about 10 or so of the warbirds, I have come to the conclusion that they are all the same airplane, they just wear different clothes! They are all about 500 Sq Ins, 21% tail area and all need nose weight as the real ones had very heavy engines up front. I think all the WWII airplane designers went to the same school! They also fly real good as you may have noted at baton Rouge. I am hoping the 51H will not need as much lead up front. Will do some weight and balance tests with the Dauntless and see where I can engineer things a bit to help.
Don
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Thanks, Don.
The "H" should be a great model; slightly slimmer fuse, and larger horizontal stab/elevator on the full scale plane. And, it's a Mustang---what's not to like?? ;D
Jim
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Jim-
After doing about 10 or so of the warbirds, I have come to the conclusion that they are all the same airplane, they just wear different clothes! They are all about 500 Sq Ins, 21% tail area and all need nose weight as the real ones had very heavy engines up front. I think all the WWII airplane designers went to the same school! They also fly real good as you may have noted at baton Rouge. I am hoping the 51H will not need as much lead up front. Will do some weight and balance tests with the Dauntless and see where I can engineer things a bit to help.
Don
So, try a P-39 on for size. That should have enough nose length.
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PIPED SUPER BELCH FIRE stunter.
LL~ LL~ LL~ LL~ LL~ That's the funniest tongue-in-cheek term I've heard yet for a big wannabe "World Beater" stunt model. That name needs to be on the wing of someones next Hot Rod.
That there is funny stuff! y1
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Gee thanks Mr.Don for the offer. I will put'em to good use. I've been in touch w/ Control-Line Central about the T-6 plans today.
Thanks again,
Doug
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Thanks Wayne, but I did not make up those terms- I think I read them in an older issue of Stunt News a good while ago. I have seen a lot of patterns flown by many fine fliers since I got back into the hobby 30yrs. ago. I have seen just as many dead on patterns flown by Noblers, RingMaster 526's-576's, Profile Buccaneers, full bodied Buccaneers, Geo's , stunters converted from RC (Richard Oliver-Frank Williams), Sharks, Hutch designed stunters, Forerunners, Magnums,etc. as I have the fine thick air foil- pipe bellied, super-sized stab modern day stunters. Some of the old proven designs can be hard to be in capable hands. Bob Hunt wrote a good article years ago about setting up OS 32F, and Webra 32 engines for use on Classic stunters. In his case it was used on the C. Mackey Lark. Bill Werwege was also in the article, but the one thing they both agreed on was how much easier smaller planes were to handle when properly trimmed. They further said that due to their smaller size they were more presentable in the sphere they operated in. I am not quoting Bob, I am not using the terms that Bob used to describe what he was saying because I can't remember them, so I am saying what I believe to be close to what he meant. No doubt the pipe motored stunters do some serious driving especially when the going gets tough. I'd probably have one on the end of my handle if I was a serious competitor, but I'm not, so I'll have fun flying the smaller stuff. I do one day want to build a semi WWII fighter and put to use one of my ST-60'S. Love dat mo...
Jim Oliver's Mustang which I saw for the first time at our contest looked fabulous. Even though it was a profile it looked full bodied. I believe it was the great camo paint work that gave the illusion, plus the fact that the real mustang was so slim in width anyway that it is a good choice for a war bird profile. The other plus with your Mustang Jim was that it really looked good in the air.
Doug
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Hi Don,
I have finalized my plans fir the first two of your Warbirds that I will build. #1 is the TBF, #2 is the P-38. After those will eventually come the P-51D. Sooner or later will be the Skyraider!
Thanks for all your good work and excellent designs!
Big Bear