Overruns during a contest; judging question

[John Lindberg]

When one has a overrun during a contest, what does the rulebook say about such an incident? The flight stops when the model comes to a stop, right? (Hopefully, after a normal landing) 

[Peter in Fairfax, VA]

My understanding is that anything completed before the time runs out counts.  For example, if the overrun occurs before the landing, the landing would not count.  Therefore, no pattern points.

[Tim Wescott]

Read the rules. The judges stop scoring when the clock runs out, and the landing isn't done until the plane reaches a stop. And yes, the maneuver needs to be completed, like it says in the rules

[Scott Richlen]

8. Duration of Flights.
Eight minutes total elapsed time is allowed from the time the contestant gives
a hand signal prior to starting his engine (this should be done with a prearranged
plan, and upon signal to or from judges) to start, take off, complete the flight
pattern and land. Timing ends at either 8 minutes, when the model stops moving
after successful landing, or when the model crashes. No maneuver, including the
landing, will be scored after the eight minutes allowed have elapsed

[RknRusty]

And loss of the 25 pattern points.

11. Flight Pattern
......Exceeding the eight 8 minute total elapsed time limit will cause loss of points on any maneuvers performed after the time limit, as well as loss of flight pattern points.

[Brett Buck]

When one has a overrun during a contest, what does the rulebook say about such an incident? The flight stops when the model comes to a stop, right? (Hopefully, after a normal landing) 

   As stated, if the model has not come to a stop before 8 minutes from the hand signal, the landing is not scored (0) and you do not receive pattern points. Note that this really means stopped, if it has landed and is rolling around on the ground, that extends the time. Also, DO NOT remove the safety thong before it stops rolling, the flight is not over, so, DQ. I have seen that happen.

    8 minutes is plenty of time for a stunt pattern and leaves a lot of margin. Make sure you have at least a little bit of braking action in your wheels, otherwise it can be hard to stop, and I have seen people land, have the model slow down and roll downhill or whatever, and take off the safety thong. This can get you a big fat 0.

    Brett

[Will Davis]

Brett gives great advice on the rollout and the safety thong, as usual, spot on

One addition to always remember , unrelated to  this topic, but remember to keep any electric powered model restrained with safety thong properly  on hand until the model is disarmed  or restrained by assistant

[Brett Buck]

Brett gives great advice on the rollout and the safety thong, as usual, spot on

One addition to always remember , unrelated to  this topic, but remember to keep any electric powered model restrained with safety thong properly  on hand until the model is disarmed  or restrained by assistant

   You don't have to have the safety thong on, you just have to retain your grip on the handle until the helper grabs it or disarms it. It was in my original draft, but I took out the bit about the safety thong after some reasonable objections (like, handing the handle to the helper and having the pilot go to restrain the airplane) were raised.

   Brett

p.s. The model shall be restrained at all times while the system is armed, either by the pilot (including holding the handle before, during, or after an official flight), an assistant, or mechanical restraint device (e.g. stooge). The device must be disarmed after flight before the airplane is left unrestrained. Failing to restrain the model while still armed during an official flight attempt shall result in official flight with a score of 0. The system may be armed in the pits as long as it is restrained at all times.

[Will Davis]

Brett,

Thanks for clarifying that point ,

[Ken Culbertson]

... Make sure you have at least a little bit of braking action in your wheels, otherwise it can be hard to stop...

As usual you raise some interesting points about landing.  The rule book doesn't have too much to say about the subjective quality of the landing but judges seem to read everything under the sun into their personal error list.  The ones I have personally had a problem with are "too much noise" from a judge that thought that if you heard the plane land it was not smooth enough,  "not enough noise" from a judge that couldn't make out when the engine quit (electric) and not a smooth roll out because I applied down elevator to slow the plane down and some line tension for brakes.

You mentioned braking.  Is there a better way than putting the flaps up once the elevator loses it's bite and adding line tension to scrub the wheels?

ken

[Jim Hoffman]

A short piece of fuel tubing on the main wheel axles, squeezed axially against the wheel can add some friction and shorten the length (and duration) of the roll out.  Very Cinderella effort - not too much, not to little

[Dave Hull]

Ken,

To add a bit of controlled friction to your wheels to limit the landing roll, you can try combinations of nylon washers, Teflon washers, Buna O-rings, etc. between the wheel(s) and the collar(s). You can still have a bit of play, while putting the friction element on the outboard side of both wheels. Thus, if you add more line tension on rollout, you get more friction.

The concept becomes significantly more important in the wind.

As far as noise, no one wants to listen to screeching wheels (rusty setup; bad combination of materials; no lubrication), shimmy and wobble (crooked setup; out of round wheels; soft mounts), and so forth. Some will say a judge should ignore all that. If I landed a full size plane that sounded like that it would go straight into the shop--the plane wasn't right and neither was the landing.

Divot McSlow

[Brett Buck]

You mentioned braking.  Is there a better way than putting the flaps up once the elevator loses it's bite and adding line tension to scrub the wheels?

  O-rings on the shaft that slightly squeeze the components together. You can make them selective (loose nominally, but the o-rings on the inside bearing surfaces) so that when you pull on the wheels, it binds up, or all the time, just assembled with the o-rign compressed. You can use silicone fuel tubing, sliced thin by putting it in the right-size brass tubing and then sliding a razor blade along the edge to slice of a nice smooth ring.

    Brett

[Ken Culbertson]

Ken,

To add a bit of controlled friction to your wheels to limit the landing roll, you can try combinations of nylon washers, Teflon washers, Buna O-rings, etc. between the wheel(s) and the collar(s). You can still have a bit of play, while putting the friction element on the outboard side of both wheels. Thus, if you add more line tension on rollout, you get more friction.

That makes sense.  Lets me pick the stopping point which I like if for no other reason than the next guy up doesn't have to walk half way around the circle to pick up my plane.  I can stop at his feet!  That is a good thing when you are out of water and he still has some in his cooler!

Ken

[Tim Wescott]

You mentioned braking.  Is there a better way than putting the flaps up once the elevator loses it's bite and adding line tension to scrub the wheels?

Aside from the mechanical means quoted, you can "reverse whip" the model once it's on the ground.  Whipping is when you get the handle in front of the model and pull -- reverse whipping in the same thing, only you get behind it.  It'll stop a model right quick if you do it correctly.

I've also used this landing in the wind to put it down where I want -- but please note that I'm a terrible wind flyer, so you may not want to go down that road.

[Randy Powell]

With a timer, this doesn't seem to be a problem.

[Ken Culbertson]

With a timer, this doesn't seem to be a problem.

Vive La Minuteur!

ken

[Randy Powell]

>>Also with a real engine...<<

Yea, tell Paul Walker he's not using a real engine. Well, I suppose, technically, it's a motor.