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Author Topic: OTS / Classic ...what's next?  (Read 1304 times)

Offline peabody

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OTS / Classic ...what's next?
« on: December 21, 2007, 06:29:41 PM »
John Miske figured at there were very few flapped models pre-1953, and chose to penalize those by banging them 20 points. He began OTS in 1970! Just 18 years after that era! Classic, with a 1969 cut-off,,,,,a 17 year difference from OTS........I know that Classic models are competitive with"modern" designs, but isn't there a whole generation of planes that are not "modern" in the true sense, but rather somewhere in betwixt? Mostly foamies, I think, and with ST as the predominant power package.

I believe that Tom Dixon has invented a class for these planes? Is it viable?

edit to improve facts
« Last Edit: December 22, 2007, 10:16:14 AM by peabody »

Offline john e. holliday

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Re: OTS / Classic ...what's next?
« Reply #1 on: December 21, 2007, 07:33:02 PM »
Peabody, you know well that a CD has the option to set special rules for contests as long as it is well advertised.  As far as VSC I hope they never change, the same with the NATS.  Some parts of this great land don't have enough contestants to fill the events we have now.  Our club has even scheduled another date for Classic and P-40.  When you only have one paved circle and two grass circles you do what you can with what you have.  DOC Holliday
John E. "DOC" Holliday
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Shawnee, KANSAS  66203
AMA 23530  Have fun as I have and I am still breaking a record.

Offline Tom Niebuhr

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Re: OTS / Classic ...what's next?
« Reply #2 on: December 22, 2007, 08:34:19 AM »
Rich,
First of all get your facts straight.

John Miske and the Garden State Circle Burners held the first OTS contest in October 1970!

Is this why the current GSCB forgot the 35th anniversary of the 1st OTS meet?

The attached picture was in the magazines in the July 1971 issues. Look at the date at the bottom of this clipping.

Doc Holliday is correct. A CD can make any changes he wants to as long as it is announced ahead of time. If you want to create new dates for Classics, or if you want the stunt pattern flown backwards, just announce it ahead of time,this is just another special event.
AMA 7544

Offline peabody

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Re: OTS / Classic ...what's next?
« Reply #3 on: December 22, 2007, 10:10:39 AM »
Hi Tom...
Yup....I erred on the date...and I know the AMA rule and that Classic is not an official class and therefore may be flown with whatever rules the CD opts for.

I wound rather have "Classic" as we know it today remain so, just as I favor John's OTS rules. That said, it might be nifty to do something with, say, a 1986 cut off? Just curious.

edit typo

Offline Marvin Denny

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Re: OTS / Classic ...what's next?
« Reply #4 on: December 22, 2007, 10:21:48 AM »
   WARNING !!!  WARNING !!!  WARNING---- COMING SOON !!!  LATEST ADDITION TO THE CLASSIC LIST OF ELIGIBLE LIST OF APPROVED CLASSIC PLANES   THE NOW OUTDATED YASCENKO  SHARK !!!

  Bigiron
marvin Denny  AMA  499

Offline Doug Moon

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Re: OTS / Classic ...what's next?
« Reply #5 on: December 22, 2007, 10:49:08 AM »
Tom,


Do you have that jacket?  That jacket is so cool!!

What was on that patch?
Doug Moon
AMA 496454
Dougmoon12@yahoo.com

Offline PatRobinson

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Re: OTS / Classic ...what's next?
« Reply #6 on: December 22, 2007, 11:11:53 AM »
Hi Guys ,and Merry Christmas to Everyone,

A Case in point to this discussion , the Metrolina Control Line Society starting next year will replace Classic with an event called "Nostalgia 79" that uses the same structure as classic but extends the deadline to Dec. 1979. pre-1970 designs compete head to head with the 70's designs so the club doesn't have to buy any extra trophies.
I proposed this idea and the club members felt it was time to make a change to finally  include some wonderful 30 year (plus or minus) old designs  at our contests.

In 5 years, if the club so desires we may make a change to Nostalgia 85 and the only thing that has to change is the number.  I may be getting ahead of myself, because, we first need to see how it goes in "Nostalgia 79".

A "true" Rolling Cutoff Date would have new designs qualifying every month which I think would complicate things for contest management. It would just be something else to keep up with, when or if, guys went ahead and built their favorite airplane in anticipation of an upcoming rolling cutoff date. We elected to go a simpler way and just added 10 years to the classic cutoff date.

I think VSC and the Nats should be left alone for now . In the future, if enough clubs around the country choose to run an event similar to
"Nostalgia 79" and if there is a bottom-up groundswell of enough flyers who have 70's airplanes ,that they would really like to fly at VSC and the Nats , then, perhaps some change could be considered.  If there are 30-40+ guys around the country flying 70's airplanes who would want to participate at VSC and the Nats , then contest management might want to take a look at some change.  Without an established group of available participants, then management would rightly say, " If It Ain't Broke Don't Fix It" and offer only  the classic event.  

I guess the question is, are there other clubs around the country who, finally want to include those wonderful 70's airplanes ,like Stiletto, Genesis and Juno and etc ,at their local contests and offer an event like "Nostalgia 79"?   So,What do you guys think about your own local clubs actually adopting this kind of event??
 
I am over 60, so I am old enough for classic planes, but I didn't really get into stunt till the 70's so the planes of that era are my personal starting place and the source of some of my fondest modeling memories.  My point is that different clubs may choose classic or "Nostalgia 79" based on the background of their members ,or maybe some guys in the club just want to compete with some "cool" 70's airplane and would like to see a change. So guys, once again: What about your local club? Is "Nostalgia 79" a possibility?
It is something to ponder.

So Guys, I want to wish everyone and your families a very Merry Christmas.

                                                     Pat Robinson





Offline Bob Reeves

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Re: OTS / Classic ...what's next?
« Reply #7 on: December 22, 2007, 03:34:59 PM »
Pat, Tulsa is going to do the same at our September 08 contest... "Nostalgia 79" good name...

Offline Bill Little

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Re: OTS / Classic ...what's next?
« Reply #8 on: December 22, 2007, 04:25:56 PM »
I am looking forward to the Nostalgia '79 event here.  Whether or not I want to build a plane from the '70s in immaterial!  I can still fly a '62 Ares or '59 T-Bird, or I can build a Stiletto, Juno, Or Macaluso F-8!  It doesn't EXCLUDE anything, just INCLUDES planes up to Dec. 31, 1979.  I have never known what the real problem is about this whe it all comes down to it.  In OTS you can fly a Barnstormer, Humongous, Jamison, or a Yates Dragon, or Box Car Chief (or even a Still '52 Stuka or '52 Nobler if you want to throw away the points for flaps!) !  Very different design paramters for these designs, but they coexist quite well.  I know full well that a '62 Ares or JD Falcon with an Aero Tiger 36 is competitive with a Stiletto or Juno (just examples!), it's just a matter of personal preference for each of us.
Big Bear <><

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James Hylton Motorsports/NASCAR/ARCA

AMA 95351 (got one of my old numbers back! ;D )

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Offline Tom Niebuhr

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Re: OTS / Classic ...what's next?
« Reply #9 on: December 22, 2007, 04:38:28 PM »
Doug,
I wish I still had that jacket. It is from the Experimental Aircraft Association (EAA).

I was very active with them at that time. I helped build a "Breezy", and flew it to the EAA fly-in. Go to my web site www.blueskymodels.net and go to the photo gallery, you will see 2 pictures of me with the "Breezy" that were taken at the EAA flyin. I also had a PJ 260 started. The fuselage is hanging in my work shop.
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Offline Tom Niebuhr

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Re: OTS / Classic ...what's next?
« Reply #10 on: December 23, 2007, 10:05:34 AM »
NOTE:

Has anyone considered that with the trend towards expanding the Classic dates, that some people will have to again encourage building instead of encouraging purchasing ARFS?  HMMMM!
AMA 7544

Offline peabody

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Re: OTS / Classic ...what's next?
« Reply #11 on: December 23, 2007, 10:13:24 AM »
Tom....
You've REALLY got to learn that ARFs are the hope of controline!

Expanding or making another class has NOTHING to do with ARFs.....

Offline PatRobinson

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Re: OTS / Classic ...what's next?
« Reply #12 on: December 23, 2007, 11:56:44 AM »
Hi Bob,

I think it is great that you guys in Tulsa are going to offer this event next year.
Good for you guys. (PE**) CLP** HH%% (PE**)
Bob, we intentionally avoided using the word classic to avoid confusion and we went back to the word Nostalgia and then Ed Ruane chimed in with the phrase "Nostalgia 79" and the name was adopted.  Bob, if you and your club want to use the name for your event please feel free to do so.

Guys, I was thinking about this and it occured to me that a little numerical perspective on this topic might be interesting, so here goes.
 
First, In 1945 U-control took off during the post war boom era and the period we now call "Old Time" ended in 1953.  The entire "Old Time" era is only 8 years long.

Second, the period from 1953 to 1969 ,that we now call the "Classic" era is only 16 years long.

The combined total time for both "Old Time and "Classic" is only 24 years.

We are now near to 2008 and if we subtract 1970 from 2008, we will find that 38 years of control line stunt history has occured since the end of the classic era. This period is 14 years longer than the entire Old Time and Classic eras combined.

Guys, it somehow seems illogical , that the majority of our actual stunt history in years should somehow be less notable and worthy of attention and preservation than the smaller first 24 years.  A 1979 design is still 29 years old , which is a large enough chunk of anyones life to easily qualify that plane, as an object worthy of Nostalgia.

Now, the case could honestly be made ,that old time and classic planes ,each had a distinctive look and design features in their own time, but that case could also be made for for planes of the 70's or even 80's.

We have learned in this thread that the "Old Time" event was created in 1970, which was only 17 years after the end of the "Old Time" era.
I am not sure what year the "nostalgia stunt movement" began, nor do I know the date, when that movement actually led to the  creation of "Classic". If anyone has the actual date please chime-in.   I could very well be wrong, but it seemed like it was the early 80's which again was about a 20 year gap from the end of the era to the creation of an event to honor that era.  (Again, I don't have the actual date so this number is subject to change)

1979 is 29 years ago, almost a decade past the time a nostalgia based event would historically be created, but there is still no widespread event to honor the 70's era, and I am just curious why?

It is interesting that everyone at our club meeting agreed that "it was time" to change our event to include planes from the 1970's. there was no objection but only agreement that "It was Time".

Big Bill, I too am looking forward to seeing "Nostalgia 79" at next year's contests.

Hi Tom, I really hadn't considered that expanding the qualifying date would generate "increased building output" of airplanes that are from an era for which no ARF's currently exist. Interesting Thought!   D>K  However, there are "period correct" foam wing designs from that era that do inject some level of pre-fab into the building equation.  Interesting viewpoint Tom.
( I choose to stay out of any ARF debate)


Guys thanks for listening and I once again want wish everyone a very Merry Christmas and Happy Hollidays.

                                               Pat Robinson

Offline john e. holliday

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Re: OTS / Classic ...what's next?
« Reply #13 on: December 23, 2007, 02:22:19 PM »
Currently, the rules state if you didn't build you get no appearance points, but, you can still fly.  That Schultze and myself plus a few others still do something besides sit around BS'ing.  DOC Holliday
John E. "DOC" Holliday
10421 West 56th Terrace
Shawnee, KANSAS  66203
AMA 23530  Have fun as I have and I am still breaking a record.

Offline PatRobinson

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Re: OTS / Classic ...what's next?
« Reply #14 on: December 23, 2007, 02:53:43 PM »
Hi Doc,
I apologize, but I am not exactly certain what you are responding to or exactly what you are saying in relation to the topic of extending the qualifying date for a "vintage-type" stunt event to include designs created up to Dec. 1979. I am sorry, but I don't exactly understand your point. 

It sounded kinda , like a valid discussion of BOM and ARFs but I am confused as to how it fits in this thread. Sorry.


                                                   Merry Christmas Doc,
                                                         Pat Robinson

Offline john e. holliday

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Re: OTS / Classic ...what's next?
« Reply #15 on: December 23, 2007, 03:39:01 PM »
I think you misunderstand.  There is no BOM in OTS/Vintage.  I was referring to Classic as it allows ARF's, borrowed and bought planes to compete minus the appearance points.  DOC Holliday
John E. "DOC" Holliday
10421 West 56th Terrace
Shawnee, KANSAS  66203
AMA 23530  Have fun as I have and I am still breaking a record.

Offline PatRobinson

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Re: OTS / Classic ...what's next?
« Reply #16 on: December 23, 2007, 07:28:43 PM »
Hi Doc,
Okay, I get it. We don't have appearance points in any event at our contests so I don't really think much about rules for appearance points ,anymore, so I guess it didn't register with me. Sorry. 

                                                           Best Wishes,
                                                                 Pat Robinson


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