OT Blue Origin verses Virgin Galactic

[Elwyn Aud]

Now that William Shatner has boldly gone where no TV space captain has gone before, I'm curious what it actually cost is for each company to make a space hop. Not the passenger charge, but the actual cost of the flight. Tried Googling it without much luck. I'm guessing Virgin Galactic's smaller rocket and the apparent need of less complex launching facilities would make their flights somewhat less costly. Of course Blue Origin goes higher and so far they've managed to accomplish two passenger flights. Virgin Galactic isn't planning another flight till 2022.

[Elwyn Aud]

Probably done as a great publicity boost for the company. I wonder if they have any trouble getting paid passengers. Perhaps Virgin Galactic could get a famous celeb (George Noory maybe?) to take a ride. Burt Rutan would be an obvious choice.

[Steve Berry]

I nominate Brett Buck to go, on the understanding that once in space, he will personally hurl the Fox .15 from up there to achieve the world record hurl.

Sent from my SM-N986U using Tapatalk

[Mark wood]

Someplace I saw that both companies have people whom have paid deposits on flights number in the hundreds.

[Tom McClain]

SpaceX has sent 2 Crew Dragon capsules to the ISS and one private Crew Dragon up for three days with astronauts on each on top of their reusable Falcon 9 booster for much less than NASA and the old NASA contractors. Blue Origin and Virgin Galactic cannot make orbit but SpaceX has and can and will continue to do so.

Presently SpaceX is the only American game in town.  SpaceX will get us to the moon again and then Mars. Check out what they are doing in Boca Chica Texas at Starbase.

[Elwyn Aud]

Thanks. I overlooked all of Space X"s accomplishments although I was mostly wanting to compare the two space tourism rivals. Getting to orbit is certainly a far bigger deal than just getting to the edge. As long as they stay accident free, the short hops to the edge will start looking like an expensive carnival ride. Any guesses as to who the next celebrity in space will be?

[Sean McEntee]

SpaceX has sent 2 Crew Dragon capsules to the ISS and one private Crew Dragon up for three days with astronauts on each on top of their reusable Falcon 9 booster for much less than NASA and the old NASA contractors. Blue Origin and Virgin Galactic cannot make orbit but SpaceX has and can and will continue to do so.

Presently SpaceX is the only American game in town.  SpaceX will get us to the moon again and then Mars. Check out what they are doing in Boca Chica Texas at Starbase.

I think you're right.  Jeff Bezos seems to be doing all of this for all the "wrong" reasons i.e. because I'm a billionaire and I can, to promote his brand, ect. and there isnt anything particularly wrong with that.  Elon Musk and SpaceX, however, seems to be in tune with the sense of exploration that most had back in the 60's.  I could sit and watch the Starship Rocket do it's little flippy landing maneuver all day 

[Scott Richlen]

   I could sit and watch the Starship Rocket do it's little flippy landing maneuver all day 

But, if he could redesign it so it would look more like Captain Video's rocket.....

Also, I second the motion: let's send Brett Buck into space!  Who's going to start the go-fund-me page for it?   

[Mark wood]

I think you're right.  Jeff Bezos seems to be doing all of this for all the "wrong" reasons i.e. because I'm a billionaire and I can, to promote his brand, ect. and there isnt anything particularly wrong with that.  Elon Musk and SpaceX, however, seems to be in tune with the sense of exploration that most had back in the 60's.  I could sit and watch the Starship Rocket do it's little flippy landing maneuver all day 

Possibly, but both Jeff Bezos and Richard Branson set out to do space tourism while Elon set out to create a space systems company to do things like fly to the moon and beyond I don’t think that desiring to create tourism is the wrong attitude. People with money have always done this sort of thing while us peasants sit back and bitch that we can’t afford it.

Personally, I look at what they are doing and am impressed. Blue Origins landed their booster first while SpaceX was still having failures. Of course, one could say yeah, landing in the wide open desert is easy, landing on a tiny @ss boat in the ocean is a whole different deal.

[Avaiojet]

Possibly, but both Jeff Bezos and Richard Branson set out to do space tourism while Elon set out to create a space systems company to do things like fly to the moon and beyond I don’t think that desiring to create tourism is the wrong attitude. People with money have always done this sort of thing while us peasants sit back and bitch that we can’t afford it.

Personally, I look at what they are doing and am impressed. Blue Origins landed their booster first while SpaceX was still having failures. Of course, one could say yeah, landing in the wide open desert is easy, landing on a tiny @ss boat in the ocean is a whole different deal.

Do you "really" believe these people, "fronts" actually, are doing what they are doing for the reasons they say they are?

Yea, and the "vaccine" isn't killing anyone, and there was no Voter Fraud.

Obama was born in the USA and AG Barr never had dealings with Dominion Voting Systems.

 

[Tom McClain]

SpaceX last year successfully launched approximately 110 reusable rocket with various payloads into orbit versus NASAs 10 expendable rockets.  SpaceX did it for a lot less possibly 50% reduction in cost compared to NASA. Bezos and Branson cannot even come close to matching SpaceX.That is why Bezos is attempting along with other of the old traditional space companies trying to slow down SpaceX by filing legal action against them with the GAO and NASA and in the federal appeals court.

SpaceX will get us to the Moon by 2025 if not earlier and by 2030 I predict we will be on Mars with astronauts because of SpaceX.

Elon is making space affordable.  $225 million a launch versus 1 to 2 billion dollars for an expandable launch by NASA. His new rocket Starship will make space even more affordable.

SpaceX has done everything with private money for less than half the cost of Blue Origin, Boeing, Lockheed, NASA, and the Russians.  And only the Russians are sending astronauts and cosmonauts to the ISS along with SpaceX and their Crew Dragon spacecraft. It is amazing what the free market and competition can do.

And now the Biden administration with the FAA is trying to stop or slow down SpaceX so Bezos and Boeing can catch up. Why?  Campaign contributions to the party in power.  Elon refuses to pay for access.

[Mark wood]

Do you "really" believe these people, "fronts" actually, are doing what they are doing for the reasons they say they are?

Yea, and the "vaccine" isn't killing anyone, and there was no Voter Fraud.

Obama was born in the USA and AG Barr never had dealings with Dominion Voting Systems.

 

Well, having been invited to work for both companies at some point in time, yes.

[Tom McClain]

SpaceX last year successfully launched approximately 110 reusable rocket with various payloads into orbit versus NASAs 10 expendable rockets.  SpaceX did it for a lot less possibly 50% reduction in cost compared to NASA. Bezos and Branson cannot even come close to matching SpaceX.That is why Bezos is attempting along with other of the old traditional space companies trying to slow down SpaceX by filing legal action against them with the GAO and NASA and in the federal appeals court.

SpaceX will get us to the Moon by 2025 if not earlier and by 2030 I predict we will be on Mars with astronauts because of SpaceX.

Elon is making space affordable.  $225 million a launch versus 1 to 2 billion dollars for an expandable launch by NASA. His new rocket Starship will make space even more affordable.

SpaceX has done everything with private money for less than half the cost of Blue Origin, Boeing, Lockheed, NASA, and the Russians.  And only the Russians are sending astronauts and cosmonauts to the ISS along with SpaceX and their Crew Dragon spacecraft. It is amazing what the free market and competition can do.

And now the Biden administration with the FAA is trying to stop or slow down SpaceX so Bezos and Boeing can catch up. Why?  Campaign contributions to the party in power.  Elon refuses to pay for access.

[Avaiojet]

Well, having been invited to work for both companies at some point in time, yes.

You never took the job, so your "yes" means how much?

Have you kept an eye on NASA sense the early Obama years?

[Tom McClain]

You never took the job, so your "yes" means how much?

Have you kept an eye on NASA sense the early Obama years?

During Obama, the NASA Administrator changed NASA's mission to "Muslim Outreach".  During Trump, the mission was changed back to space exploration with returning to the Moon and an huge emphasis on private enterprise.  But now Elon and SpaceX have added Mars exploration and colonization.

[Mark wood]

You never took the job, so your "yes" means how much?

Have you kept an eye on NASA sense the early Obama years?

Well, I am friends with the chief engineer on the White Night. Reasons for not taking a job in BFE span a large range. Living close to family is an important aspect of any such job making decision, which boils down to priorities in life. Working for a company, Bombardier, who makes their primary income from selling $80M airplanes to rich folks who are the same customer base of Virgin Galactic and Blue Origins provides some significant insight as to their motivation. I'd say, I have a pretty good idea. So, the value of my yes in your eyes, worthless. In the value of having taken a close look at the company in my perspective significant.

No, I have not kept up with NASA since the early years.

[Avaiojet]

So, I'm in Florida some years ago on a holiday.
I'm driving east down a main road, at night, to the coast in Ft Lauderdale.

I restored collectible cars my whole life, so I nearly jumped out of the rental when we passes this amazing classic car dealership obviously because of my interest.

The place was closed, but we turned around, I wanted a peek see.

It was late and we had a place to go to meet others so it was a time issue. But, they said, OK but briefly.

I parked across the street because after the peek see we would be headed in the same direction. Also, the distance offered a better view.

Thunderstrucked!! Opps! No, that would be ACDC, one of my favorite rock bands.

Auestruck is more like it. When I say this place was done up, 50's everything, inside and out.

Gas pumps, signs, and enough neon to go to the moon and back.

Not only that, but contemporary sports cars also and plenty of them.

My background in restoration, not only my own cars but customers also, this got me thinking.

I have a bad habit of repeating what I'm thinking, sometimes this is good and sometimes not so good, but I couldn't help myself.

"No way is this a legal business." One couple in the rental was from just outside Ft Lauderdale.

First, they said, how could I say this? And me being the wise guy I am said, I just open my mouth.

So they're telling me about this dealership and how long it's been there, same owners over 20 years, and how it's grown to become a landmark and it's written up in the news papers so often. Evidently, they clear the showroom and have weddings, poor guy, also political events for all the important people.

Well, a short period of time goes by and we get a call from the Ft Lauderdale couple, they have kids to.

Have you guessed it yet? The place got busted for drug trafficking. An on going investigation

which took place over many years.

Sometimes,

When it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck, does't mean it's always a duck.

Yes, I've told this story and one other baseball story, many many times.

Both stories are easier to not believe. Can't do anything about that.

Hey! You want the other baseball story?

[Tom McClain]

So, I'm in Florida some years ago on a holiday.
I'm driving east down a main road, at night, to the coast in Ft Lauderdale.

I restored collectible cars my whole life, so I nearly jumped out of the rental when we passes this amazing classic car dealership obviously because of my interest.

The place was closed, but we turned around, I wanted a peek see.

It was late and we had a place to go to meet others so it was a time issue. But, they said, OK but briefly.

I parked across the street because after the peek see we would be headed in the same direction. Also, the distance offered a better view.

Thunderstrucked!! Opps! No, that would be ACDC, one of my favorite rock bands.

Auestruck is more like it. When I say this place was done up, 50's everything, inside and out.

Gas pumps, signs, and enough neon to go to the moon and back.

Not only that, but contemporary sports cars also and plenty of them.

My background in restoration, not only my own cars but customers also, this got me thinking.

I have a bad habit of repeating what I'm thinking, sometimes this is good and sometimes not so good, but I couldn't help myself.

"No way is this a legal business." One couple in the rental was from just outside Ft Lauderdale.

First, they said, how could I say this? And me being the wise guy I am said, I just open my mouth.

So they're telling me about this dealership and how long it's been there, same owners over 20 years, and how it's grown to become a landmark and it's written up in the news papers so often. Evidently, they clear the showroom and have weddings, poor guy, also political events for all the important people.

Well, a short period of time goes by and we get a call from the Ft Lauderdale couple, they have kids to.

Have you guessed it yet? The place got busted for drug trafficking. An on going investigation

which took place over many years.

Sometimes,

When it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck, does't mean it's always a duck.

Yes, I've told this story and one other baseball story, many many times.

Both stories are easier to not believe. Can't do anything about that.

Hey! You want the other baseball story?

And what exactly has this superfluous stream of consciousness have to do with the theme and discussion of this thread on Space Transportation?

Methinks not much if  anything at all.

[Avaiojet]

And what exactly has this superfluous stream of consciousness have to do with the theme and discussion of this thread on Space Transportation?

Methinks not much if  anything at all.

Well Tom,

In simple terms, things my not always appear to be what they are.

I've seen decades of this. And I would think, so have you.

[Mark wood]

I love it. A bunch of rich guys spending their money playing and it's a conspiracy that they're developing some crazy weapon or some stuff. Give me a break.

Richard Branson is on LinkedIn and is approachable. Maybe ask him. So, is Burt Rutan. I very seriously doubt that there is anything nefarious going on with either VG or BO. As with any conspiracy theory, to what end? Neither of these vehicles can do much other than to carry something on a short round trip to space and back. The White Night, maybe, but it's just a big tow truck.

Sad state of affairs when everything turns in to a political debate or conspiracy.

[Tom McClain]

Well Tom,

In simple terms, things my not always appear to be what they are.

I've seen decades of this. And I would think, so have you.

I'll say it again:  And what exactly has this superfluous stream of consciousness have to do with the theme and discussion of this thread on Space Transportation?

Methinks not much if  anything at all.

And your lack of precise grammar is indicative of a superfluous stream of consciousness.

[Dan McEntee]

I love it. A bunch of rich guys spending their money playing and it's a conspiracy that they're developing some crazy weapon or some stuff. Give me a break.

Richard Branson is on LinkedIn and is approachable. Maybe ask him. So, is Burt Rutan. I very seriously doubt that there is anything nefarious going on with either VG or BO. As with any conspiracy theory, to what end? Neither of these vehicles can do much other than to carry something on a short round trip to space and back. The White Night, maybe, but it's just a big tow truck.

Sad state of affairs when everything turns in to a political debate or conspiracy.

      Well, you know, Chuck was almost a double aught spy once, or something like that!!  He has contacts everywhere!!

     Getting back to the subject matter, I sat in on a forum at Oshkosh one year where Rutan outlined his program for attaining the X-Prize. After listening to that for almost an hour and a half, I had no doubt that he would accomplish it, and he did!  It seems to me that Branson took that concept and expanded it to meet the requirements needed for what is more or less a really expensive amusement park ride. But I think he may be the closest to having a program that gets close to what was envisioned by all of those involved in this pursuit, and that is making a service available for the public to be able to fly in space. And to me, the fact that you are flying on wings into space is kind of important and cool. Forget the small argument about whether or not he actually got into space at only 50 miles and didn't cross the Karmen Line. He got pretty dog gone high, was able to float around a bit, and see a view that very few people have seen in person, and then flew back to a safe landing, which what all of this was the prime goal. I think that the Space Ship Two probably has the best margin of safety from beginning to end, and that can get better through repeated flights and more experience and data is attained. The overall cost of each flight can be reduced as more flights can be scheduled. Better and more safe aircraft can be designed and more cost effectively built. I don't know who has ownership of White Knight, but from what I understand, it is kept busy flight other types of research and test missions, and if Branson does have a piece of that action, it just compliments his whole program. As time goes by, he may be able to develop a launch system using more common aircraft. It's like the KISS method of simple suborbital space flight. Blue Origin is pretty interesting in a completely different way. From what I have seen it's like sitting in a lounge pit in some one's living room and then riding it into space! I don't know a lot about the program, and would like to know some more about any safety features it has if there is a need to abort a flight half way through a launch. The parachute recovery is a more "traditional" way of re-entry, but I find actually flying up, and then flying back more attractive. So in short, I think the Virgin Galactic operation will have more of a chance at success for what it is intended for because it is already pretty close to an airline and people are familiar with that, and over all costs I think can be controlled better. The Blue Origin system may take you higher into space, but with no crew on board operating it, it's more closer to riding an elevator than an aircraft, in my humble opinion!  I don't think you will ever see either one operating on a daily basis, may a few flights a month at best, but the original goal of making it possible for the general public ( at least the wealthy general public) to be able to experience space flight. When I was in kindergarten ,and the whole school was crowded into the gymnasium to watch the first Mercury launches on a little TV set up in one corner of the gym, I don't think it was in anyone's thought patterns that one day we would be talking about this!
  Type at you later,
    Dan McEntee

[Mark wood]

 
     Getting back to the subject matter, I sat in on a forum at Oshkosh one year where Rutan outlined his program for attaining the X-Prize. After listening to that for almost an hour and a half, I had no doubt that he would accomplish it, and he did! 

Yeah, I didn't get to visit that one. Burt tends to draw a large crowd. I have worked on a couple projects that allowed me to work at Scaled Composites occasionally. Personally, I'd have to do and A-B test on each vehicle in order to decide which one is better. Alas my available funds for entertainment reach maximum at the CL model airplane level so I guess I won't be making that determination.

I think that Virgin Galactic is the owner of the White Night and taking in other research projects is part of what they intended from the beginning in order to help finance the tourism effort.  Heavy lift aircraft are far an few between.

[Tom McClain]

Everything I have read here with the exception of one continuous stream of minutiae convinces me that Elon Musk and SpaceX is the game in town for affordable reusable access to orbit for people  and cargo and then to the Moon and Mars.

Virgin Galactic is not the way, Blue Origin is stuck in reverse, and Boeing and Lockheed are overwhelmed with past solutions and committees and exorbitant cost.

The future is SpaceX and NASA knows it.

[Mark wood]

Everything I have read here with the exception of one continuous stream of minutiae convinces me that Elon Musk and SpaceX is the game in town for affordable reusable access to orbit for people  and cargo and then to the Moon and Mars.

Virgin Galactic is not the way, Blue Origin is stuck in reverse, and Boeing and Lockheed are overwhelmed with past solutions and committees and exorbitant cost.

The future is SpaceX and NASA knows it.

They're two entirely different mission statements. SpaceX is on a service mission and exploration. Virgin Galgctic and Blue Origins are in the space tourism for rich people.

[Tom McClain]

They're two entirely different mission statements. SpaceX is on a service mission and exploration. Virgin Galgctic and Blue Origins are in the space tourism for rich people.

Virgin Galactic may be as you say, Jeff Bezos (Blue Origin) is not and is waging a vicious legal battle to stop SpaceX.  Today the US Senate affirmed that.

[Dan McEntee]

Virgin Galactic may be as you say, Jeff Bezos (Blue Origin) is not and is waging a vicious legal battle to stop SpaceX.  Today the US Senate affirmed that.

     Yes, I think Branson is close to what he wants and doesn't have any interest in hauling freight, just short joy rides. Bezos is just too far behind the curve I think right now, and there won't be any stopping Space-X .  Musk has had too much success and has too much momentum.

  Type at you later,
    Dan McEntee

[Tom McClain]

     Yes, I think Branson is close to what he wants and doesn't have any interest in hauling freight, just short joy rides. Bezos is just too far behind the curve I think right now, and there won't be any stopping Space-X .  Musk has had too much success and has too much momentum.

  Type at you later,
    Dan McEntee

On top of Elon’s success, he has the private capital to do it without government help.  All the others rely on government funds.

[Tom McClain]

SpaceX last night fired the vacuum and atmospheric engines of starship 20. Huge success. They are getting ready to launch the largest rocket ever into orbit before Christmas. Now the FAA needs to get out of the way.