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General control line discussion => Open Forum => Topic started by: Matt Piatkowski on May 11, 2016, 12:23:49 PM
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Say, a new class is created: one F2B standard design for all competitors.
I am not proposing to eliminate the present variety of F2B planes - this will stay - I am proposing to add the standard class.
This is by analogy to gliders (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glider_competition_classes).
My only wish if the idea goes through: only electric power should be allowed.
The selection of design should be a matter of popular vote of all interested.
I feel that, contrary to the complexities of the Presidential Election in the US, this kind of pure majority vote should be easy - the winning design is the one that receives 50% plus one vote.
Just a thought....
M
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Interesting idea. One designs have been popular in RC clubs for years. Not down with the electric thing tho.
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I vote S-1 Ringmaster!! Seriously, I think the design takes a back seat to trim at some level so equalizing the equipment factor may be harder than you think.
MM
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Pretty soon, soon all F2B planes will be electric. You only need to wait.
Floyd
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Pretty soon, soon all F2B planes will be electric. You only need to wait.
Floyd
When that happens, I will be the only contestant injecting castor oil into his batteries.
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I vote S-1 Ringmaster!! Seriously, I think the design takes a back seat to trim at some level so equalizing the equipment factor may be harder than you think.
And to illustrate your point, every single Green Box Nobler was identical in design, AND, the parts were punched with the same dies. But while they had some common characteristics, no two of them ever flew exactly the same way. With mass production you can get them pretty close, but even the Yatsenko Sharks don't all fly the same, from what I have heard (and seen).
Brett
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Say, a new class is created: one F2B standard design for all competitors.
Ick. One of the nice things about control line stunt is that it's the event that's probably the least sensitive to exactly what equipment you use -- so a tightwad like me can get by with OS LA engines (or cheap Chinese motors if I go electric), and as long as the airframe is in the ballpark of what the top guys fly then it'll fly.
But all of that is trumped by building well, trimming right, and flying good.
"One design" events work well when you're trying to limit cost, or to highlight operator skill vs. the equipment -- that's just not something that's necessary in stunt.
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Say, a new class is created: one F2B standard design for all competitors.
I am not proposing to eliminate the present variety of F2B planes - this will stay - I am proposing to add the standard class.
This is by analogy to gliders (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glider_competition_classes).
My only wish if the idea goes through: only electric power should be allowed.
The selection of design should be a matter of popular vote of all interested.
I feel that, contrary to the complexities of the Presidential Election in the US, this kind of pure majority vote should be easy - the winning design is the one that receives 50% plus one vote.
Just a thought....
M
What the 'L is up with that??????????????????????
If I want to fly a cookie cutter plane I'd go back to RC and buy an ARF..............Oh wait a minute we, have ARF's too. Well, I guess that shoots down my argument. ???
Personally, I like flying my own designs (I know, I'll get around to it one of these years) but I am flying others designs now.
Oh well, Jerry
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Pretty soon, soon all F2B planes will be electric. You only need to wait.
Floyd
Nope, NOT a chance !
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BORING moght I add BORING
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Nope, NOT a chance !
Exactly Not a chance as long as I'm alive and at least 20 or 40 other guys I know also!
When I'm not alive I guess I won't care much about what the electron doers do!!
Randy Cuberly
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Wow, Matt! Pick a drone, attach some wires and go for it. It can join the trainloads of here today, gone tomorrow, buy it, fly it and throw it away toys that have come and gone before it. You've clearly never attended the annual miracle of creativity, ingenuity and human artisan-ship in the desert known as VSC. What you're suggesting has little relationship to what the stunt event has been for close to eighty years in the US. Stunt is not the latest iPlane aerial selfie app.
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One F2B Standard design for all?
I thought they ALL Were . ! Modified Noblers . :-\ VD~ S?P
H^^
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Guys,
I expected the opinions to cover the entire possible spectrum stretching from "no way in hell!!" to "ok?....new idea? Perhaps we should try it?..." and this is exactly what happened.
Thank you for your thoughts, suggestions and friendly critique.
Now back to my new Electric Parrot.
Regards,
M
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Sounds like what NASCAR tried years ago. Worked for a while, but where is it now. My self I will fly for fun.
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ACTUALLY , Nobler and Nobler derivitives ( Grondal , Gieske etc ) and design incorporateing a Nobler Wing & Mods or Nobler fuse sides & modified wing
OR your own ' @#$% take ' ( ER , Whoops ) on a Nobler . Say Std Wing & fuse sides , with free cowl , tip , decks etc might be quite productive .
Semi ' Classic Era ' Hot Rods etc etc and have some firm standing / footing , as a cornerstone of design & configuration .
ALSO theyred be bound to be plenty of eligable ships ready to go .
A certain Caudron is a Nobler Root Rib , with the other bits a trifle stretched . Probably a bit far from the core seed , but Id be in for ( with ) one ,
If you regard the 60s ' Hot Rod ' pearl / metalic paint , Era as notable , this style of plane has plenty of appeal , both to flyers , builders , & spectators .
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DohRa9lsx0Q
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Sounds like what NASCAR tried years ago. Worked for a while, but where is it now. My self I will fly for fun.
Aw Doc, you beat me to it
The ISTOC. Kind of like the IROC. With Teslas
Rusty
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Some weird ideas coming out of Canada this Spring. What have y'all been burning in your fireplaces this Winter? First, Glenn with his "Speed Stunt" plot, and now Matt with his "Standard Class F2B".
In Matt's defence (furrin' spelling), I believe "Standard Class" would not require a certain factory produced airframe, but instead would require certain span, weight, and area limits. Airfoils and design "style" could be quite interesting and artistic. Much like the F1A, F1B, and F1C classes. There is still a tremendous range of design and technology in all of them. Nobody would be bored with such a class variation of F2B. Well, except for that electron-only thing. That would indeed suck! VD~ Steve
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Just remember, the more rules there are, the easier it is to cheat! mw~
No rules, how can you cheat? ;D
Look at the history of Formula V racing where you ended up with an expensive blueprinted engine and super zoot stuff on the car, instead of the bottom dollar fun racer. How popular is it now? HB~>
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Some weird ideas coming out of Canada this Spring. What have y'all been burning in your fireplaces this Winter? First, Glenn with his "Speed Stunt" plot, and now Matt with his "Standard Class F2B".
In Matt's defence (furrin' spelling), I believe "Standard Class" would not require a certain factory produced airframe, but instead would require certain span, weight, and area limits. Airfoils and design "style" could be quite interesting and artistic. Much like the F1A, F1B, and F1C classes. There is still a tremendous range of design and technology in all of them. Nobody would be bored with such a class variation of F2B. Well, except for that electron-only thing. That would indeed suck! VD~ Steve
Nope I think he is proposeing a one design, event, as proposed the Ringmaster I read up there somewhere,,
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Nope I think he is proposeing a one design, event, as proposed the Ringmaster I read up there somewhere,,
Wouldn't matter if it was Predators, Sharks, or ThunderGazers, nobody would enter, except the guy that designed this mandated aeroplane. Always remember, Trix are for kids! LL~ Steve
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STREWTH . having only glanced over the first post ,Id thought it was a new club event for olde fartes. :os bing
If theres a dimensional formular like the one that banned Pau-ls B 17 , to cut a long story short - IT COULDNT BE MORE BORING
or WET BEHIND THE EARS .
2 Kilo max. Wt. and the pull test . And Maybe a 2o ft dia. centre , in case its blowing over 20 Kts . S?P
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It wasn't Paul's B-17 that was banned, the span was legit. It was that young feller in Ozzie with his Lancaster that didn't read the fine print of the F2B regs.
Are you suggesting a change in the maximum weight? I'm not sure what it is...but it sure isn't 2 Kg. max. That's barely over 70 ounces, if my TI did my ciphering right. :X Steve
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Are you suggesting a change in the maximum weight?
NIET , Nay . Nien , etc .BUT the weight & pulltest are the saftey issues . Maybe we could make it a percentage of the pilots weight & his shoe size , er , GRIP . ;D ;) ( just Kidding )
2 Kilo takes a bit of holding onto in a stiff breeze . No Worriers here . A 20 Ft. pilots circle should cover all factors , and allow the judges to keep their heads . LL~ VD~ S?P :-X UM.
If you think of yacht racing , ' one design ' is one class . Now there are classes there suitable for kids , Father $ son , 2 man , 3 man , 4 man etc .
A breeze came throough a event when I was a nipper , and the Flying Ducthman , ( 4 crew - three on a Trapeze ( Thats feet on gunnals , a wire from the mast stopping them falling in the drink )
were scattered ( Blown , some might say ) All Over Auckland Harbour , running before the wind . Some hit Rangitoto , in short order , From of Browns Bay . Made the Headlines .
ANYWAY , Thats Racing . To confine competitors to one designs going to eliminate All THE OTHERS . ( Compare it to the Yacht Classes . )
It would not on STOP all development of that typre of Aeroplane ( unless nit pickers interfered with the regs. Ea Year , ) Butr Would also eliminate any development ( or most - How may'r built Nowadays ?? )
or most other Aerobatic C/L designs outside that spec .
It could be like everybody driving London Double Decker Busses . ! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDKG5GJWHJU
The MB3 was like driving a Dodge 440 in a prcision driving test , in the wet , with the throttle stuck ( use the Ign. ! :)) Very Relaxing . When You Stop , Takes a few days to Come Down .
If we all had to Do It in Minis ( the original ) or Austin Healey 3000s or SAAB 94s or 6s , Id Take the Dodge 440 , Or Jensen , or 70' Ghibli ;D
If you get the Drift , one Horse isnt going to Suit all Riders , and it'd be frigging BORING .
PULL TESTS . %^@ VD~ My Thinking keeps Backing to a Heavy LINE pull test . ( Lift the pilot off the deck LL~) and a lesser pull test for the Aeroplane . Lines'r cheap , planes arnt .
WIND SPEED I myself think should be unrestricted . At top level Its Supposed to be a demonstration of pilot skill , aptitude and capability .
(http://mercurybayholidaypark.co.nz/wp-content/uploads/whiti-location1.jpg)
>:( >:( >:( >:( :'( :-X some snots stuffed this up , like the rest of the town . EVIDENTLY . Rich Mans Sewer in the River , and Shellfish Beds at Cooks Beach . Nowadays . THANKS Sandra Goodie . Another Con Man Er I mean Politition .
On That POINT where the ROUND carpark Is ( wasnt ) up a bits the pad on the ground ( by the road ) which was a three wall roofed shelter open to the River . In Front Was GRASS . Someone In America has ( Had - a tourist ) of me flying the Merco 49 Mewgull thru
the schedule there back in 003 odd . You end up about 15 or 20 ft short , over the ( Granite Boulder ) wall toward the Yachts . Almost Guarenteed a light Breeze . about 8 - 10 mph upriver , sofly down late in the day .
PROGRESS INDEED . Though I Suppose its still Flyable . ? With the Concrette ' Judges Position ' We only needed to post two or three sentrys to guard the approaches .
Would have been Panoramic for T. V . , Like If Theyed Sailed a 30 mile course out past Rangitoto and around back in past Mareitei For the Americas Cup , rather than farting round like a pack of jerks in a Gym with Centerboarders .
There most rediculous aspect was deliberate fouls and taking the wind ' within the rules .' In this case the rules are to govern which idiot is at fault if they run into ea other , or prevent such . Heads firmly Up Arses if they think
Thats Racing .
Thus a cleared Level Half Circle on top of a Mountaain would have Panoramic Views , and we could intropduce underground Eights if the cliff was perpendicular , Id be wary if it was over 20 Kts with2 K. on the Lines with the cliff
Downwind . VD~ S?P
More Ralistically ( Realistic ! Realistic ? THAT Is Realistic ! :) Eights Have Above Horiozon have somewhat higher line tension in the below horizon loop .
Another site the ( Local ) Governments stuffed is the Old Northcote Way Mwemorial Park. Football club had three Field Levels , With 45 Deg Banks 50 fdt or more down to Ea. ( Next ) .
Damn Wierdos've plkanted trees all over the ' spectator banks ' . >:( a 20 Oz Foam Wing ( solid ) carboard covered Peacemaker ( The Northcote Clubs Idea , Not OURS ) with a Yin Yan Silver Swallow .14 , 2.5cc
If Whipped for 5 Laps , and Dived , Might Get Around a loop , over the Bank , without stalling into it on the way up . If you Got it right and the air wasnt too thin .
SO , we've decided to have the Finals of F2B at the N.Z. World Champs , on the Top of Rangitoto Island , I sent my Brother there today , to acertain its suitability . ;)
(http://www.teara.govt.nz/files/p-6828-gns.jpg)
This way we can get Global Network cover and I can become the bernie ecclestone of F2B and weathy beyond mortal dreams . :## :##
(https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTuVYxVrcHmdJFOxmHMNe8YmT1TeCqMRni2FPV61LyGwPpQjGbRWA)
Those Without Televisions can see the Top of Rangitoto from most parts of Auckland , and good binoculars arnt very expensive these days .
Im sure we can deal with the Fence . As Long as we put it back when we've finished . We Could have a ' Heads in the Clouds ' World Cup warm up , too . :##
(http://themorganburke.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/TopofRangitoto_Compression.jpg)
( Theres Actually comparable sights in the bays , Rangitoto Colledge & Northcross Intermediate School Grounds , if your a Google Eart or google Pic freak . Forest Hill Resivoirs a bit near the main ( then ) North Shore Power Lines ,
Though the views are comparable . SO they shouldve sailed Way Out over the Way , Out Beyond over there a bit , and back in around through the back . Rather than squabbling in the puddle to Drive Up Real Estate Prices ( and their Bank Ballances. )
WHOOPS . Did I say THAtr . Never . :-X
SO , the answer Is Dont Stuff with things . Or Youll Drive all the locals out .
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SEEING where here , or there . This ones Northcross . The Midges are on the Tennis Courts , which arte ' done ' to 70 + 10 , as is the fences are 160 ft apart , the green over by the tide is another LARGE field ( hidden here )
The Levels are Up & Down , a fair way , between the Large Flat Areas .
(http://www.edusearch.co.nz/stored/providers/6571_1.jpg)
This One is Called ' Rangitoto Colledge ' for some reason . Note the Big Halls for ' Dormitry ' Visitors , and wanting to be All Blacks when they grow up , Theres Showers and suchlike .
Pity theyve replaced surounding Forests & Orchards & Farmland with ' Suburban Neuroacisees .' AND , you dont have to pay tolls on the Harbour Bride any more . or Trolls under it .
(http://www.finessephotography.co.nz/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/Rangitoto-College.jpg)