Author Topic: Old vs New Monokote (Read 12493 times)

Gene O'Keefe · « **on:** July 16, 2012, 01:34:07 PM »

Not much of a Monokot'er, a fellow modeler wants to sell some....it has regular Monokote on the label & some say
Super Monokote. I am aware that the original "old" stuff was the best....how do I tell the good from the bad ?

nathan Metzner · « **Reply #1 on:** July 16, 2012, 03:53:58 PM »

Gene, I am aware of the common complaints of new monokote. However, I have had few problems with the new stuff. The brodak stuff seems to tear sorta easy but the monokote and econokote seem to work alright. Ultrakote seems to be everyones favorite. I am unsure how to tell a difference between the old and the new except the old sticks much better, or so they say.

Dennis Adamisin · « **Reply #2 on:** July 16, 2012, 06:17:57 PM »

Unfortunately unless you had some stashed away then its probably all "new" now. It is also (somewhat) color dependent. I am currently covering a profile warbird with a plethora of colors & vintages (up to about 10 years old) of material.

* The white is essentially unusable. It seems to shrink (if at all) in only one direction. Try not to use it anywhere that you need any shrink (like open bays) It is probably only good for striping.

* The Olive Drab, Tan, Blue Mist (light blue), Black, Yellow, Red, Green, & Silver (whew) seem to be working OK.

* I had some trouble getting the Transparent Yellow on my WDZ to shrink properly, all the other colors were OK.

Randy Ryan · « **Reply #3 on:** July 16, 2012, 09:13:14 PM »

I had some new Corsair (or Navy) Monokote that just would NOT shrink. Let myself be talked into Ultra Coat, I am ashamed for anyone to see the model. Now I've covered with everything for microfilm to slik and that Ultra Coat is the asolute worst junk I've even used. Took hours and hours to finally get int smooth and tight to my standards, OK I thought, then I took it out in the sun. I get mad everytime I look at it and its a nice flying model, a TF Greenbox Nobler, but it looks SO BAD it will prolly never be flown anywhere but my back yard.

SORRY, HADDA VENT A LITTLE!!!!!

Mark Scarborough · « **Reply #4 on:** July 16, 2012, 11:36:10 PM »

Randy,
I must confess, that really surprises me, Ultracote is my iron on of choice,, I have had far less trouble with it than with any other "cote" material,,

Randy Cuberly · « **Reply #5 on:** July 17, 2012, 12:20:30 AM »

Quote from: Mark Scarborough on July 16, 2012, 11:36:10 PM

Randy,
I must confess, that really surprises me, Ultracote is my iron on of choice,, I have had far less trouble with it than with any other "cote" material,,

Yeah, I too have had better luck with Ultra Cote than any of the other iron on stuff. I have noticed that some of the colors are more temperature sensitive than others, but with some experimentation I've always managed to get a descent job with Ultra cote. Goes around compound curves better than anything else. Seams around the tips are practically invisible. The red on my G. Nobler has loosened a little in the hot sun here in Tucson but always tightens up again with a few strokes of the cote iron.
I would mention that it needs a clean surface to stick well...clean as in no residual balsa sanding dust.
It's easy to guess how I know that.

Randy Cuberly

Dan McEntee · « **Reply #6 on:** July 17, 2012, 02:56:48 AM »

Just as a little addition here, I was talking with Charlie Baur one time about iron on coverings and he told me that he would only use MonoKote that had aged considerably. He is from the Chicago area, and even had some type of connections with Top Flite, I think, before the company was sold, and would still look for old MonKote at swap meets and such. I think he thought that if it aged a little bit, it shrunk better. Charlie builds a lot, and uses iron on covering a fair bit on some of his sport scale control line models, so he may know something about it. I used MonKote for all of my R/C sailplane wings, and I found that it shrunk up the tightest of all that I had tried at the time, and some of the lighter, open bay sailplane wings REALLY relied on the properties to make the wings stiffer and stronger. I always advise people that when using ANY iron on covering to pull it as tight as possible when applying it and get out as many wrinkles as possible that way first before applying heat. Most coverings only shrink up about 17% from what I have found through research, and some colors don't shrink as well and others. Like a lot of things, practice makes perfect.
Type at you later,
Dan McEntee

nathan Metzner · « **Reply #7 on:** July 17, 2012, 07:08:21 AM »

I suppose it is time to start a list of monokote colors that work well LOL. I am in the process of skinning a Flight Streak and am having fair success with sky blue and beige. I did have some issue with the sky blue forming in the tip but I wasn't doing it seperate either. The glue seemed to stick relatively well to both the model and to each other. My father recently layed down some victory red as trim and it also stuck alright but he had a dickens of a time keeping it from stretching were the trailing edge meets the fixed flap. This may meen that the red shrinks at a lower temp? I have had considerable problems trying to use the transparent red around wing tips and such. Come to think of it this may be a batch problem more than a color issue. It is possible that the quality control for monokote is pretty lax now and if this is so than there is no telling what a given roll will do until you attempt to use it.

Avaiojet · « **Reply #8 on:** July 17, 2012, 07:46:40 AM »

Quote from: nathan Metzner on July 17, 2012, 07:08:21 AM

I suppose it is time to start a list of monokote colors that work well LOL. I am in the process of skinning a Flight Streak and am having fair success with sky blue and beige. I did have some issue with the sky blue forming in the tip but I wasn't doing it seperate either. The glue seemed to stick relatively well to both the model and to each other. My father recently layed down some victory red as trim and it also stuck alright but he had a dickens of a time keeping it from stretching were the trailing edge meets the fixed flap. This may meen that the red shrinks at a lower temp? I have had considerable problems trying to use the transparent red around wing tips and such. Come to think of it this may be a batch problem more than a color issue. It is possible that the quality control for monokote is pretty lax now and if this is so than there is no telling what a given roll will do until you attempt to use it.

Hey! Hey! Nathan,

I saw your Blue. Looks a bit darker than Sky Blue? Looks great so far!

Colors that work together?

An old graphic design and interior decorating trick, is to visit high end clothing stores for woman. Plenty of effort in that industry for matching colors and values of colors. Some guys may even want to pick up a dress while their there.

I'm fine with that.

Paint stores also, check out their displays. Free color chips! Google aircraft photos. I like the Golden Era.

Iron on covering? Careful there, old stuff, even in the roll new, could have a shelf life. It gets brittle.

Charles

dirty dan · « **Reply #9 on:** July 18, 2012, 12:04:47 PM »

I wouldn't buy any of it. If it's the new stuff there are clearly some issues with white having been my main problem.

If it's the old "good" stuff it's still old and that alone would keep me from buying it.

You are far better off to buy the freshest film you can find. When I was buying MonoKote that's why I would order from Tower even though I was ashamed to not be getting it at Local Hobby. Your chances of avoiding a roll where the color is off some is also reduced just from the way the stuff is produced, boxed up and sent to Tower and then pulled for each order.

So despite a negative review from upstream a bit and from a man I respect quite a lot I have made the switch to UltraCote and am quite pleased with the product.

Dan

Chris McMillin · « **Reply #10 on:** July 18, 2012, 01:29:40 PM »

I spent a day working with all new Monokote on a big ship, got OK results on the bottom of one wing in that time.

Next day went in again with all new rolls of Ultracoat, both wing bottoms finished in a few hours with very good results. I'm now an Ultracoat guy (even though I can't spell it correctly yet, Ultracote, Ultracote...).

Chris...

Dennis Adamisin · « **Reply #11 on:** July 18, 2012, 02:50:45 PM »

I had acquire a nice stash of Monocote, but I am trying to use it up on "beater" projects before I make the change-over to UltraKote - or almost anything else EXCEPT Monocote.

Still have too much monocote to just pitch it (or so I keep telling myself...)

dennis lipsett · « **Reply #12 on:** July 18, 2012, 03:48:59 PM »

The common response of having too much Monokote to just throw it out is my problem. I have over 30 rolls of the stuff and half of it is 'new'. I did a model with White and it literally shriveled over a 3 month period, You could not shrink any wrinkle out of it and it had been applied tight when first covered. I had to strip the covering off the model and did cover it with silkspan. Still had a pile of White and just had to use it over the silkspan. It dosn't matter if the Monokote is crap it will stick forever to silkspan. Incidentally the wing could probably be used as a lethal weapon it's that stiff.
But, it is certainly not a time saving method of covering a model and I did it just to do it I guess and to use the offending product up.

dennis

John Stiles · « **Reply #13 on:** July 19, 2012, 07:25:55 AM »

I refuse to buy or use the "New" monocoat! It was designed by the debil!

John Stiles · « **Reply #14 on:** July 19, 2012, 07:27:46 AM »

Quote from: Dennis Adamisin on July 18, 2012, 02:50:45 PM

I had acquire a nice stash of Monocote, but I am trying to use it up on "beater" projects before I make the change-over to UltraKote - or almost anything else EXCEPT Monocote.

Still have too much monocote to just pitch it (or so I keep telling myself...)

I get mine from swap meets....if you want to shed your stash, just give a holler!

Ron Heckler · « **Reply #15 on:** July 20, 2012, 10:35:56 PM »

Quote from: Dennis Adamisin on July 16, 2012, 06:17:57 PM

Unfortunately unless you had some stashed away then its probably all "new" now. It is also (somewhat) color dependent. I am currently covering a profile warbird with a plethora of colors & vintages (up to about 10 years old) of material.

* The white is essentially unusable. It seems to shrink (if at all) in only one direction. Try not to use it anywhere that you need any shrink (like open bays) It is probably only good for striping.

* The Olive Drab, Tan, Blue Mist (light blue), Black, Yellow, Red, Green, & Silver (whew) seem to be working OK.

* I had some trouble getting the Transparent Yellow on my WDZ to shrink properly, all the other colors were OK.
Hi Dennis,

I too switched to Ultracote from monokote. It goes on pretty easy and seams are hard to detect. However, after a day in the sun, it seems to lift a little and create bubbles which means extra work when I get home.
I was thinking of using Balsarite on my new plane prior to covering it with ultracote. The specs on it say it is good for most types of covering including Ultracote. One thing I can tell you for sure, using monokote trim sheets for trim colors is easier than iron covering on top of covering.

I would like to see comments on this.

Thanks
Ron Heckler

nathan Metzner · « **Reply #16 on:** July 21, 2012, 12:23:25 AM »

I just bought some transparent blue and regular white. It may be a while until I use it but I'll give a review. In response to the covering over covering I try to mitigate that condition unless it is on sheeted areas. I have had some good success bonding two pieces together with a half inch seem and then putting it on the plane.

Ron Heckler · « **Reply #17 on:** July 21, 2012, 12:41:22 PM »

Quote from: nathan Metzner on July 21, 2012, 12:23:25 AM

I just bought some transparent blue and regular white. It may be a while until I use it but I'll give a review. In response to the covering over covering I try to mitigate that condition unless it is on sheeted areas. I have had some good success bonding two pieces together with a half inch seem and then putting it on the plane.

Nathan,
I use to do that to, but if you put it on open bay areas you have to be careful using the heating gun otherwise the seam will come apart. Now I am using sheeted foam wings instead of built up wings, and of course, covering them is much easier and looks better, but the sun manages to do its job on it.

Have you ever used Balsarite before covering?

John Lindberg · « **Reply #18 on:** July 22, 2012, 06:56:20 AM »

I have had good results with BalsaRite, with monokote and Ultracote, it is fuel-proof, also.

Ron Heckler · « **Reply #19 on:** July 22, 2012, 11:58:24 AM »

Quote from: John Lindberg on July 22, 2012, 06:56:20 AM

I have had good results with BalsaRite, with monokote and Ultracote, it is fuel-proof, also.

Thanks John for the input. I will definately use it on my next plane. I don't have to worry about fuel proofing because I fly electric. The sun is my biggest enemy right now.

nathan Metzner · « **Reply #20 on:** July 23, 2012, 02:31:19 AM »

Ron, I haven't used Balsarite yet. I looked at it the otherday at the hobby shop but decided against it. I haven't had much problem with the heat gun pulling my joints apart unless the joint is less than .5". I am also really diligent to minimize the shrinking needs over the open bays. The other thing the heat gun will do is to gas off the adhesive in between the layers and give you tiny bubbles. I have not found a way around this except to try and shield the gun away from the joint. I need a better gun because mine is not directional and too hot to suit me. I may try and use the hairdryer next time to see if it has the same effect on the joint area.