Yep, those ol veterans along with Vecos, Johnsons, Forsters and many others too numerous to remember and mention were the ones that busted our fingers, frustrated us, and taugh us how to operate model engines...and even now, they will still fly a plane as well as one could want....even my old Phantom P.30 ......just like the one that I had back in the mid 50s....Regards, Phil