Author Topic: Old rat racers (Read 2021 times)

Russell Shaffer · « **on:** December 18, 2016, 08:46:19 PM »

How fast were the early 60's rat racers once they got moving? Something like a Veco Firebird or a Firebird2 with a good combat 35? Just curious and plotting.

pat king · « **Reply #1 on:** December 18, 2016, 10:26:10 PM »

I don't know how fast real Rat Racers were in the early 60's. In 67 my Quicky Rat with a stock Enya 29 with the wrong prop would do 113 MPH. I was using a Rev-up 7 X 11, as I understand today I should have been using a 8 X 9. I don't know if the 8 X 9 would have been any faster on the top end, but I do believe acceleration would have been better.
Pat

Steve Helmick · « **Reply #2 on:** December 18, 2016, 10:51:56 PM »

Define "good combat .35"...and "good" by whose standards?

I was associated with two rat efforts. Pilot built the first one (Hooptee) and I built the second, an original. I don't recall if I named it or not, but seems likely. "Dirty Rat" or something like that is probable. But we used a K&B .40 (which are cheap and easy to find at swap meets, and RJL might even have some parts). The Hooptee did about 125 and the other did over 130 in prop testing. We used clipped 9-8 Tornado nylons, and cable lines. I'd expect the right APC would do better, and solid lines would help. We had leadouts with exposed clips, etc. The second one did have a barstock aluminum circular bellcrank. Both used Harter's proto pans with single wheel gears.

Seems to me like the only "Rat" event flown these days is the "Quicky" event. "Skat Rat" was a nice design, & a CG kit. Not positive it's legal, but it should be.

Steve

Randy Cuberly · « **Reply #3 on:** December 18, 2016, 10:55:56 PM »

Not too sure about the early 60's. because I joined Uncle Sam's Party in 1961. However in 1959 I witnessed two different fast rats (Harter Pans) with Dooling 29's go over 130. In 1960 I had a highly modified Veco Combat 35 in a pan that was clocked at 136...but couldn't get it to hot start...finally gave up and Joined the Army!!!

How's that for frustration!!

Randy Cuberly

john e. holliday · « **Reply #4 on:** December 19, 2016, 09:43:14 AM »

The first Rat Race I saw was in mid 50's as a new event. I think Randy Cuberly was in it with Gene Dunham, Al Hougt and the Meriwethers plus Water Wetherford. They were probably around 70+ MPH. But when I got back to the KC area my first rat had Fox Golden 40 on my version of the Midwest Rat Racer. Did good to make 100+ mph with 9-7 Grish nylon prop. By the time I built a Skat Rat with Super Tigre 40 which was mid 60's I could consistently get 115 mph with 1 or 2 flip starts and no shut off with 2 ounce tank on crank case pressure.

By the 70's building pan rats with K&B 40's was getting close to 130+ mph. Every body else was getting 140+ mph but not good restarts. When they went to 2 up racing the planes were pushing 160 mph and I quit rat racing. Mainly because I was too hard on pilots.

Randy Cuberly · « **Reply #5 on:** December 19, 2016, 11:03:37 AM »

Quote from: john e. holliday on December 19, 2016, 09:43:14 AM

The first Rat Race I saw was in mid 50's as a new event. I think Randy Cuberly was in it with Gene Dunham, Al Hougt and the Meriwethers plus Water Wetherford. They were probably around 70+ MPH. But when I got back to the KC area my first rat had Fox Golden 40 on my version of the Midwest Rat Racer. Did good to make 100+ mph with 9-7 Grish nylon prop. By the time I built a Skat Rat with Super Tigre 40 which was mid 60's I could consistently get 115 mph with 1 or 2 flip starts and no shut off with 2 ounce tank on crank case pressure.

By the 70's building pan rats with K&B 40's was getting close to 130+ mph. Every body else was getting 140+ mph but not good restarts. When they went to 2 up racing the planes were pushing 160 mph and I quit rat racing. Mainly because I was too hard on pilots.

Yeah that's when most of us in that area were flying Houpt and Dunham Specials with K&B Green Head's. In point of fact however they were easily capable of 95 MPH. I remember several 5 up races with those little airplanes. Lots of fun.

Yeah in the late 70's and early 80's Fast Rat got ridiculous! 160 mph even two up is impossible for most pilots to fly. Best description I heard of it was "Just pick up a 80 lb. tool box and run in place as fast as you can for 4 minutes if you want to see what it's like!" Not far off the mark.

Randy Cuberly

EddyR · « **Reply #6 on:** December 19, 2016, 12:31:32 PM »

In my area we had a .29 class of rat racing using old team racing motors. I remember 100mph as the point to hit. These were profile rat racers.
Everyone got into it as it was a easy event to build for and fly. K&B .29R was the good set up.

Motorman · « **Reply #7 on:** December 19, 2016, 02:31:15 PM »

Don't forget they had high nitro back in the day and .016 wires if I remember right. I had a purple profile rat with a Fox 36X and rev up 8-8 running missile mist. Don't know how fast it was but not competitive back in 1972. They already had (HP40?) schnurrle ported pan rats by then.

Fast forward to the 90's our club revived the old profile rat race event. I built a profile job with my modified K&B 4011 on 10% fuel and pressure tank with my own 8-7 CF prop and .018 solids. My friend Byron clocked me at 13.4 with no traffic.

Anything below 150 is sub light speed.

MM