Just a CURIOSITY

[Fredvon4]

Seems to me that C/L modelers are a frugal(cheap) bunch...generally speaking....sorry if this offends you but I see it every day on the forums...truth..WE are frugal and THAT, is NOT, a bad thing/////IMO

And we all seem to acknowledge that WE--- are part (not entirely) of the demise of the mom n pop hobby shop

So--- as I peruse the various outlets of stuff.. It sort of astounds me why company B would offer a common item for $10 to $20 over the price of company A direct sale price

IN this case I find the $79.99 price for a Evo .36 CL engine at Horizon hobby and wonder---- why on Earth----- I would ever pay $99 or $109 (on other sources here)....

is this just me--- or is the C/L buying public too dense to search for best price shipping?...

I only ask because it seems to me that theses other competitors, MUST/SHOULD employ a web search expert to properly position their product

Very curious...or IMO... BRAIN DEAD...and part of why some companies will not survive

IF YOU have no clue about this rant...git off yer arse and pay attention!!!!

NOT just engines, or other high cost items... I buy much simple stuff like control horns, bell cranks, rod ends, carbon veil, silk, dope, and Balsa--- by just web searching and playing the free shipping game

I love Brodak...BUT $20 premium for a Evo .36 CL engine from them when I can buy direct for $79 is Never going in MY CART

Jest Ranting

[Scott Richlen]

Well....
- there's "cheap"

- and there's "dirt cheap"

- and then there is "control line cheap"

just saying....

[Fredvon4]

Scott...CLC is kinda funny ----kinda sad

And as I reread my post-- I guess my real question is----WHO ...of us CLCers,  are actually paying $20 bucks more for a readily available engine for $20 less?

I do like the Brodak store--- and I do buy a LOT from them...but...come on...really,,,,,, is there some compelling reason I am missing for the $20 premium price?

I just bought a boat load of Cyber Monday things from Amazon, NewEgg, Wally World, Best Buy, and I delibeatly by passed--- the extra "insurance" because I have a history with each product brand and real world life expectancy....

To the point...for me to buy from my LHS or ANY on line store---- at a PREMIUM PRICE...there must be some added value... in this case I see none

What say all the other CLC buyers?

 

[Mark Scarborough]

You certainly are entitled to your shopping methods and yoru approach, however there is a VERY key factor you are ignoring,, that is service,, when you buy from Brodak, you get a company that will stand behind it and take care of you if you have an issue, if you buy from joe nobody on the bay, good luck

[Scott Richlen]

Service can make all the difference.  And in the future may make all the difference.  We shop on line because of price, but also service.  I have given up on a number of local stores because of their poor customer performance (nothing like being treated like you are invisible to increase your desire to shop in that store!)  Of course, in a few years with advanced 3-D printing for production on demand, this will all change.  People do like to get out and window-shop.  So, imagine while you are out shopping, walking into a store and having your product custom-made on the spot!  Nice.  Good-by Amazon!

[Fredvon4]

Mark

I have always been curious to your signature  "Exiled in Pullman Wa"

My USA ancestry is from Wash and Oregon (notable places and people too long for this thread)

I totally agree with your assertion Mark...

BUT in this case--- the source (importer) Horizon Hobby--- sells the Evo .36 C/L engine all day long for $79 ( I have two of them)

Here on SH (private sellers) and on Brodak...the usual asking price in near $100 NIB...

In MY decades of engines acquisition I only ever needed repair parts and never any warranty work....

BUT---- I truly suspect, IF I needed warranty work, then Horizon (primary seller) would be good and better option than secondary seller Brodak...

Supposition cuz I don't know... Maybe Brodak would just eat the bad engine and ship me a replacement where Horizon would RMA the original and take months to send a working engine

That all said... in my life time of buying glow engines, I never got a "out of the box" dud.....that is... if you do not count the many I NEEDED to OPEN and remove machining swarf....

[Doug Moisuk]

Well I'll through my $2 worth in here. I always liked to support my local HS. I would pay a little more for the small nut and bolts items to support him and for the convenience. If I was buying a big item like and engine, radio or a kit I would shop around a bit but even then pay $10 or $20 buck more again to support him. But then our hobby shop changed owners. The new guy has never flown a model airplane. The inventory was reduced dramatically. I know call it a toy store. His philosophy is I'll order it for you. He doesn't seem to understand impulse buying and wanting to see it in your hand. In fact if I have to wait for him to order it why wouldn't I order it myself and get it faster and cheaper. Well that's my rant for today. Just saying.  

[John Rist]

I guess here in Huntsville Alabama we are a lucky bunch.  We have a LHS called RC Hobbies. The folks running it are the best folks you would ever want to meet.  Price wise he will always match Tower's price.  If you call for an item Monday or Tuesday and it is not in stock Rick will have it for you by Friday.  Admittedly he is a little short on CL stuff such as kits etc.  But so is any LHS.  Anyway I am happy, happy, happy with my LHS.         

[Motorman]

Well if you supply all things CL and there is a popular engine, sometimes a vendor will get a few to serve his customers but not go full dealer status. It's a nice thing he does to carry something with a thin profit margin.

The days of cheap imports are numbered.

MM

[pmackenzie]

You are looking at this backwards.   MSRP for the motor is $100, it is right in the product listing.
Horizon is dumping them for $80, undercutting the stores they sold them to.

Horizon is both a direct seller and a distributor, and the hobby shops are getting the short end of the deal.
Anyone know if this is more common since they were bought out by investment bankers?

Buy an EVO while you can, they might just be clearing out stock.

[Motorman]

I don't get the attraction to the Evo when there are Brodak 40's around for $80-$90 new and the Evo needs mods for stunt right?


MM

[Randy Cuberly]

It's not CL modelers that are responsible for pushing local Hobby Shops out.  It's distributors like Horizon.  Why would a local Hobby shop stock something when the distributor sells to anyone for about what the Hobby Shop proprietor has to pay.  Distributors like Horizon obviously don't want the Hobby Shop business...they want the Hobby Shops to go away...not a bad way to eliminate competition!

I personally don't mind paying a little more for items from a local Hobby Shop because of what was mentioned before  "SERVICE".  I can go and look at items and compare them to each other and pick out the one I think is best!

Distributors that also deal in retail are simply trying to eliminate the local competition.  AHC did it for years in the 50's 60's and 70's and pushed a lot of Hobby Shops out of business.

Today there are many "distributors" doing the same thing!  Are they "Bad Guys" No but they don't do the hobby in general any favors.  They're just "Money Men" looking for a buck and will always follow what sells best which leaves things like CL and FF wanting!

I would also guess that Horizon is planning to drop the EVO Line of engines or at least the CL version!  Another CL product gone.  Nobody cares but a few of the folks on this Forum.

It's just possible that Horizon and others like them are planning the demise of IC engines altogether.  Less items to stock and Newer markets to expand.  Business 101!

Holy Crapola Batman!

Randy Cuberly 

[Brett Buck]

You are looking at this backwards.   MSRP for the motor is $100, it is right in the product listing.
Horizon is dumping them for $80, undercutting the stores they sold them to.

Horizon is both a direct seller and a distributor, and the hobby shops are getting the short end of the deal.
Anyone know if this is more common since they were bought out by investment bankers?

Buy an EVO while you can, they might just be clearing out stock.

       I wouldn't consider it "dumping" when it probably cost them something like $25 delivered. The undercutting of the local hobby shops has been going on for decades, as long as I knew enough to wonder about it. I assume it happened the moment it became possible to consolidate contracts with the manufacturers. You want an OS engine, there's only one place it comes from in the US - Tower. When it became practical to do direct sales, and particularly since it became cheap and easy to do over the internet, it was guaranteed. There's no way for the hobby shops to win.

     Brett

[pmackenzie]

A distributor that values its retailers will let them price match when they have a sale, and give them rebates.
I think Horizon actually does that, or did.

You are correct, technically dumping is done below cost, like China does with steel products for example.
 I can buy a finished mould base from China for less than the cost of the raw steel purchased here.

[Dennis Leonhardi]

I'm an old accountant, so totally understand different prices ... The quickest way to go out of business is to sell at prices that won't even cover overhead.   

Anyway, my point in posting here is perhaps to "defend" Horizon.  We have a shop in our area that will supply anything Horizon and several others sell, simply by drop shipping from the supplier.  Pretty basic stuff.  Oh, and their service is great!

But please don't guess at the level of service any of our suppliers offer - Horizon is great!  My own experience with any of the major players that survive - Futaba, Horizon, Tower, etc. - is that they go way beyond reasonable.

Case in point: I contacted Horizon to ask a couple of questions about an item they supplied.  A few days later my mail carrier delivered a thick package containing a copy of the manual for an Out Of Production item - completely unrequested and unexpected.

Vendors like this shouldn't be publicly criticized for their service except in actual cases where they've failed to provide reasonable support.

That's my story, and I'm sticking to it.

[Steve Helmick]

While I suppose there is some attraction to being able to buy all the stuff you need from one source (Brodak, in this case), I always have considered the very two worst businesses to get into are 1) Hobby Shop and B) Fishing Tackle Shops. In both cases, their potential customers are about the fussiest people on Earth. Not good!

LHS dealer discount is typically 40% off "list" (i.e., pay 60 cents on the dollar), but may be less. Items like engines have a "list" price and also a "street" price, which is the price which the dealer cannot go below in advertisements. The penalty is being cut off from further purchases. The LHS can sell that engine at any price they want, but can't advertise that price if it's below "street". The same goes for fishing tackle and applies to even a lot of small items. Seems like price fixing to me, but the good thing is that you can typically go into any LHS and buy the same item for the same price, the "street" price. There may be some who want "List", but you'll learn not to go there.    

This is why Bass Pro and Cabela's are currently going down the same path as Eddie Bauer and LL Bean...clothing, almost all imported...the markup is huge, often buy at 25cents on the dollar. If they sell it for 50% off, they'll still double their money, see? It's also why women's clothing is always so much cheaper than men's clothing. Our chit doesn't go out of style, so they generally don't need to put it on sale for that reason. Sometimes they'll put men's clothes on sale when they find that they only have Small and Medium sizes, so they need to re-balance their inventory. Easiest way is to start from zero inventory.   Steve  

[Scott Richlen]

I got a long story about Cabelas' "guaranteed for life" sunglasses.  Short version:

When they broke I was told that yes, they were guaranteed for "life" ...... of the sunglasses.  Once broke, their "life" was obviously "up".

Cabelas no longer gets my business...

[Phil Krankowski]

Guaranteed for "life" on many hand tools involves paying shipping both ways on a $2 part... think shipping one way is even $2?

Those brand name "tool trucks" sure have a racket.  They show up at the shop, sell to the people who work there, and the public even if the manager of said store is on board (ask, there will be some minor hoops) of there is a problem OF ANY VINTAGE TOOL of said brand they take care of it as best possible.  You WILL pay probably twice the price of some excellent "store brand" tools, and 10-50 times the price of budget tools, but the service is there and the tools deserve it.

Brick and mortar has to cost more because of lights and a storefront.  I do call my not-so-local hobby shop and ask before ordering very frequently.  Some brands he does not and will not stock even though he considers them good, if he can get it and it is cheap he will just order it and call me, pricey or unusual items I have to pay up front for.  Sometimes it is more than worth it to save shipping but pay tax for it to go into his drop shipment.

Phil

[Steve Helmick]

I got a long story about Cabelas' "guaranteed for life" sunglasses.  Short version:

When they broke I was told that yes, they were guaranteed for "life" ...... of the sunglasses.  Once broke, their "life" was obviously "up".

Cabelas no longer gets my business...

Cabela's actually has a pretty good reputation for warranty replacements. On that occasion, you should have requested a discussion with the manager. Most retail businesses will bend over backwards to make the customer happy, even if the customer is being ridicules.  Steve

[FLOYD CARTER]

If it were not for my LHS, I wouldn't be building or flying anything much.  They are close; they have lots and lots of things I need.  If they don't have it in store, they will order it if their suppliers carry it ( and that's most everything).  They call me at home when it arrives.

That kind of service is nearly as good as home delivery from mail order, except I have to drive 5 miles to pick up at the LHS.  I save postage and handling, so the cost is about the same as mail order.

My LHS has been in the hobby business for 83 years.  I hope my contribution will assure many more years.

Floyd
Eugene, Oregon

[Dennis Moritz]

Brodak is a distributor and retailer. Does not undercut retailers who stock his products.


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[Dennis Moritz]

I support local businesses as a matter of course. I want them to succeed, especially if they provide quality service. Face to face relationships count for a lot.


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[Dennis Moritz]

Mail order from anonymous so and so can be a pain in the butt. I used to be hung up on saving a few bucks. A frustrating run around or two changed my mind. If you have a local hobby shop nearby that you like support the heck out of it. Ours is gone. No place around to buy the little stuff frequently needed.  No place to find the needed hard to find. Loved those balsa racks. Eyeballing kits takes years off.


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[Gerald Arana]

I don't get the attraction to the Evo when there are Brodak 40's around for $80-$90 new and the Evo needs mods for stunt right?


MM

Oh really? Where? I'd like to buy a half dozen of them.   

Jerry

[Fredvon4]

Kinda sorry I used the Horizon Evo  C/L .36 costs and mentioned Brodak as example of inflated retail price....there are SO MANY other examples

I can easily beat Towers prices on quite a few items at several other not so big web sites...

I think I got my Sullivan Hornet 1/2a starter from Graves RC for about $10 less than what Tower wanted...(just top of head example)

And I was not intending to start any debate ABOUT supporting a "Good" LHS------- seems self evident to me...WE ALL SHOULD, and when I find one I will...

I do NOT own a Brodak .40 but do own 2 of the (now 2 years old) $79.99 Evo .36's and based on advice HERE--- I set one up with one of the three supplied venturies, fed it the recommended fuel, and propped it as advised...
Sorry not feeling like finding my notes to list the exact setup (that was recommended HERE on SH)

(snide comment intended)...If Horion was indeed dumping these at $79.99 (mid 2014 price)...they MUST have many of them to liquidate
Note to self...get a few for Xmas.....just cuz

If I use my NIB OS LA 25s -OR- a used OS FP ABC .20, following exactly the BBTU advice---- as the GOLD Standard (for my ease of use sport flying)...
I have to say, the Horizon Evo .36 CL is a damned good value and does EXACTLY what I wanted it to do without any modifications

I have a buddy with the Brodak .40 and also a MECOA K&B Sportster .28... it seems to me, and my meager expertise with easy to run SPORT engines, that all three have their place as reasonable cost IC engines that do as they are designed to do....

I do NOT dispute, for a competition flyer the relative value of  Dub jet, Randy Smith, or any other near Perfect engine is totally within reason and worth to cost...

I grin as I note the exceeding frugal nature of MOST of us model airplane guys while there is a distinct subset that have no issue whatsoever spending "what it takes" to have the Best, Reliable, and Repeatable equipment...
I tend to believe these guys...help all of us.. just as I believe in Reagan Trickle Down Economics... humm wonder if this slight political note, buried deep in a thread, will get the PC police on my arse...BSEG

Snide comment intended---- the Brodak .40 is NOT much better IMO than other engines-- where I do not have to be concerned with fit n finish of obvious important things like crankshaft thread cutting....just sayin

My very distant, but closest, flying buds--- all fly Ringmaster, Primary Force, Twister, SkyRay, RST, Flite Streak sized and type models for sport...  I doubt any of us could fly anything looking like a PAMPA pattern...but we have a plane load of fun when we fly together

Biggest reason I do not have a Brodak .40.... usually out of stock-- but when available it is $129...so I bought a few used (3) OS .40s and (1) .35s for about the same cost...

NOT a competition flyer Fred