Oil Oil Oil

[Frank Wadle]

I think it’s time to talk about oil….
In the last couple of weeks I followed a few discussions on this forum that, after a while, went a little off topic and ended up talking about oil.
I my self have had some oil issues in the past.
I’m flying Discovery Retro engines with 80% methanol, 10%castor and 10% Motul Micro 2T and I have quite a lot of carbon build up, not just in the engine but also in the muffler. Using more Motul and less castor oil improves the situation a little, but never keeps the engine clean.
This is about the same Ruslan Kurenkov reported in another thread.
Lauri Malila also had some thoughts on oil based on his experience with Discovery Retro 60, 76 and his own engine.

Now I wonder what other people use.
What oil could be used in a Discovery Retro 68 instead of the Motul?
What experiences have other people made, also with different engines?

This thread should not only be focused on Retro engines. All input is welcome!

Frank

[Peter Germann]

I've never had carbon build-up when using half Klotz KL-200 and half castor in PA's (Total of 20%). Of course, its long ago and I suspect PA's on pipe being less compressed when compared with Retro's

[Massimo Rimoldi]

Hi
Personally I use Aerosynth3 which is mentioned in the other discussion.
This oil is not readily available in Europe (so I do not think it can be found in the USA) and, like many oils produced in Germany, it has extraordinary performance characteristics and against corrosion.
To answer some questions about the difference between Aerosynth3 and Aerosave:

Aerosave  : polyalchelenglycol base
                 high viscosity (40 ° C - 188 cst)
                 compatible with: methanol, nitromethane, castor oil, gasoline, ether etc.
                 protects against corrosion even with% nitromethane higher than% of oil
                 It can be used as after run oil

Aerosynth3: ester base
                   low viscosity (40 ° C - 113.3 cst)
                   not compatible with: gasoline, ether, etc.
                   at first Fuchs declared that the oil should not be used with castor, but in November 2015 Mr. Werner Frings stated that AS3 can be mixed with castor (80-20) at the same time as methanol.
                   protects against corrosion even with nitromethane% = 1.5% of oil
                   It can be used as after run oil
             
Personally I use AS3 as the only oil with a RO-JETT .67 and recently I have tried a 80% methanol - 20% AS3 fuel with a RETRO .60, the carbon deposits present are dissolving already after a few flights.

Regards, Massimo

[Brett Buck]

I've never had carbon build-up when using half Klotz KL-200 and half castor in PA's (Total of 20%). Of course, its long ago and I suspect PA's on pipe being less compressed when compared with Retro's

       It also probably burns at a much lower temperature. Nonetheless, you will eventually get some level of varnishing. The PAs seem to be much more tolerant of this than the RO-Jett, at least as far as I can tell.

      Brett

[Ruslan Kurenkov]

Hi
Personally I use Aerosynth3 which is mentioned in the other discussion.

Regards, Massimo

Hi
It is very good that Frank opened a new topic, and Randy installed it in the correct section of the forum.
I want to ask Massimo about synthetic Aerosinth 3 oil.
Where do you buy it? Or you have very large reserves.
I urgently need to buy 5 liters of Aerosinth.
I think that this is the best synthetic oil for today !!!
On this oil, all RC and CL flew German pilots for more than 10 years.
Before testing this oil for the first time I used only Motul and castor oil (5% + 11%) for my Salker 66, it was 5 years ago. After 70 - 100 flights, carbon deposits on the piston constantly appeared which strongly worsened the engine performance. The engine had to be disassembled and cleaned. Before I once again disassemble the engine for cleaning the piston and silencer, I was given an Aerosinth test. I on this oil prepared 1 liter of fuel (10 flights for 6 minutes). Oils Aerosinth - 5% and castor oil 11%. After I made 10 flights during the day, I removed the cylinder cover and saw that the piston was already almost clean. The next day I still prepared 1 liter of fuel on this oil. After flying, in the evening I completely disassembled the engine and was shocked. Neither on the piston, nor on the inner part of the cylinder cover, and most importantly - in the interior of the silencer there was not even a trace of carbon varnish deposits. The engine inside became like new.
After that, I reached this oil all season - it's about 200 - 250 flights. The engine was absolutely clean and its work was constantly equally stable both in the cold and the heat.
It's a pity that Graupner took off this synthetic oil from the sale. Graupner decided to sell only fuel on this oil.
Here is such a marketing.
May be members of our forum advise me to replace this oil or prompt a place where it can be purchased?
Regards, Ruslan

[Steve Helmick]

Oil is always an interesting topic. I did a search for "Aerosinth 3 oil", which only resulted in a lot of references to music by the band "Aerosmith". On a hunch, I changed the spelling to "Aerosynth 3 oil" and got some meaningful results. "Synthetic" is the correct spelling of the base word in English, so it makes sense. One forum seemed to agree that Klotz was good stuff, but not so available in Europe, since the decline of glow and increase in the dreaded electron-burners.  Steve

[Richard Field]

Hi Frank,

The Retro Discovery fliers in my local Club (myself with a 68 & another with a 76) use 23% Motul Micro 2T Oil only. Ie No Castor. This has worked very well & the Engine stays completely clean.

When I received my Shark with the 68 it was recommended to use 20% Oil of 50/50 High Grade Castor & Synthetic (Titan), with more Synthetic if the Castor Oil was lower grade.
My Engine still has some of the external burnt-on Castor from early running with the 50/50 Castor Synthetic, but no Carbon build-up.

The Motul is also being used by local fliers running Ro-Jetts & K77 (20% Motul Oil only) with similar good results.
Motul is available on order from the local Motorbike Workshop which helps.

Cheers,
Richard Field
Sydney Australia

[Massimo Rimoldi]

Hello to all.
To answer some questions from previous posts:

For Ruslan

I bought a good amount of AS3 two years ago, when on the Aerosynth.de website (now not working) the commercial stop was announced.
You can try to contact:

H. Fleischmann
The Fuel Factory
Deichstr. 13
26935 Stadland
015119102368     04731269242
eugenfleischmann@t-online.de

Mr. Fleischmann produces a large amount of fuel using different oils and also sells the individual raw materials, I do not know if he still has AS3 today, but he does have Molsyn and Carbulin.


For Steve

The reference site Aerosynth.de contained a large amount of information and an answering service to queries.
The answers provided a lot of technical information about the product.
If you want you can search on https://web.archive.org/web/20151121152347/http://www.aerosynth.de here you can find a good part of the archive.
By clicking on the icon shown in the attachment, it is possible to access the technical information.


For Richard

Also from Aerosynth.de : Titan and AS3 have the same ester base and slightly differentiate for additives and color (green vs. yellow).
The two products are perfectly compatible.

Regards, Massimo

[Massimo Rimoldi]

One forum seemed to agree that Klotz was good stuff, but not so available in Europe, since the decline of glow and increase in the dreaded electron-burners. 

Probably the writer tried the Klotz oil on the shelf of olive oil .....
In Europe Klotz is a well-known, appreciated and widespread brand.

Massimo

[Vitalis Pilkionis]

Does anyone have any experience with EDL3 oil from Model Technics?
http://www.modeltechnics.com/

[Steve Fitton]

Has anyone figured out what the sekrit synthetic was in ROJett blend Powermaster?

[Steve Helmick]

Only DR engine I personally know of here is in Gary Gingerich's Yatsenko Yak 54...a .70-something, I believe. When he came to NW CL Regionals in Eugene, Oregon, I picked him up at the airport terminal and drove us around and shared a motel room. Since he flew in, I was requested to bring fuel for him, which I mixed myself at home, using UCON 625, which Howard had sourced from Rich's Brew fuel company, someplace in Texas. Since I'd mixed a full gallon, I took home the surplus, and when he came back the next year, he got the rest of the same batch, and also ran just fine. I don't believe it had any castor, but maybe...or not.

I don't know what oil the Yatsenkos recommend for their engines, but I'd use Klotz or UCON and follow their recommendations about castor or not. I don't know what fuel Gary uses at home in Arizona, but I could probably find out. I'm pretty sure it comes out of Southern California, but can't recall the name right now. I'm sure Randy Cuberly would know, and also would know what the other DR fliers run in theirs. I do know that UCON 625 is not easy to get here in reasonable quantities, and Howard had to buy a case of gallons...4 gallons, I think, but maybe 6.

Klotz is easy to get at my local Go-Kart shop, Tower Hobby, etc. One does have to be aware of the two different Klotz mixes, one with 20% castor, the other straight synthetic. I haven't mixed fuel with Klotz, don't have any, and don't know for sure which is which without some research, by part number. Just know that "Techniplate" is straight and "Super Techniplate" is the 20% castor variety.    Steve

[Brian Hampton]

I'd only ever used Castrol M castor for about 40 years until I bought a Stalker 61 where the instructions said to only use a synthetic. The only synthetic I thought I could trust was something I'd used in a rather different application for a very long time and that was Mobil Jet Oil II. I mixed 5 litres at 20% and ran the entire lot through the Stalker with no problems at all. Apart from the price which was much more than the castor so having used my last can of turbine oil I went back to castor. However the Mobil oil has a very heavy brown dye so stains plastic tanks and fuel lines. BP 2380 is clear so would be a better turbine oil for our use.