First Time Flying Old Time Stunt with the Viking))))

[Shug Emery]

First time flying the Viking, an airplane passed on to me from Wayne Willy and Keith Sandberg. Only second time trying the OTS pattern. Keith laid on the ground and called it out to me a couple weeks ago as I flew his Prowler.
What a fun pattern to fly. Different from the modern stunt pattern and i keep wanting to mix in the full loops on the eights and such.
The Viking and that K&B .40 fly mighty fine. 62 foot lines.
Whooooooo Buddy)))))
Shug



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[gene poremba]

 I think your liveing in controline heaven! You have a great place to fly, and it seems like there's wonderfull people to fly with that have alot of experience they dont mind passing along. Thats a mighty fine looking Viking there Shug.Keep posting pics & vids, it makes my day....Gene

[john e. holliday]

Well the old DOC is going to give you zeroes for two maneuvers not done correctly.   The horizontal 8 and over head 8.   Dig out the Old Time Stunt Pattern diagram sheet and study it.    Otherwise the pattern is decent and looks a lot better then mine.   You have to agree the square is one hard maneuver to make look right.  Keep at it kid.

[Jim Thomerson]

I had a Viking with K&B 4011 and liked it pretty well.  Here is a link to the OTS pattern.  Also take a look at the PAMPA website for additional PAMPA rules, rather widely followed.

http://www.ccmaconline.org/AMA%2051%20OTS%20Rules.pdf

[Ward Van Duzer]

Shug,

So I noticed that you fly the pattern with your LEFT hand, as I. Now, I am sure that Doc is going to tag you for your overhead eight. Here's why. You entered it from the center of the eight. The DRAWING for the overhead shows the manuever being entered from the bottom of the eight. (As a leftie, I'm sure you realize that's a very uncomfortable entry for you.)  BUT, note also that the text states the overhead eight shall be judged as all other eights. Got that? Now go back to Maneuver #11, the vertical eight. Note that the text in the illustration states that the manuever may be entered from EITHER the bottom, or the center. Likewise, the last sentence of the text for the vertical eight. Therefore manuever #12 is to be judged the same as manuever #11. I don't believe anyone needs to be a genius to understand this logic. But I have fought this for years, and no one, NO ONE agrees with those statements! 

I even asked George Aldrich and Bob Palmer at Brodak's one year and they agreed that they each entered the overhead from the center.

Jus' wanted to let you know what you might be up against as a 10%er!


Ward-O   

[Dennis Toth]

Shug,
A few notes on the K&B 40. I have been flying this motor for the last six months in a Biplane and love this motor. I am using a 0.270" venturi, 7% nitro, 27% (50/50) oil turning an 11x5 APC prop (Mike K posted that this was the prop and he was right). One other thing that would save you some weight (lots of weight like 2 oz.) is to use a tongue muffler. I have been using one from Eric Rule at RSM that is for the OS 25, fits perfect, 1/2 oz. The K&B on my ship runs in a rich four cycle with just a hint of break at the tops. On the 7% fuel I burn about 3 3/4 oz for the OTS pattern with a 4.95 lap on 60 1/2' C to C.

Best,         DennisT

[Shug Emery]

I think your liveing in controline heaven! You have a great place to fly, and it seems like there's wonderfull people to fly with that have alot of experience they dont mind passing along. Thats a mighty fine looking Viking there Shug.Keep posting pics & vids, it makes my day....Gene

You speak truth)))) It has been a terrific season with our club. Thankee.

Well the old DOC is going to give you zeroes for two maneuvers not done correctly.   The horizontal 8 and over head 8.   Dig out the Old Time Stunt Pattern diagram sheet and study it.    Otherwise the pattern is decent and looks a lot better then mine.   You have to agree the square is one hard maneuver to make look right.  Keep at it kid.

Yessir....just kinda going for it trying to remember the maneuvers at the expense of dodgy eights. Now to study up on it and get some help at our field. Also knew I would get some feedback on here too. That ong square is fun.

I had a Viking with K&B 4011 and liked it pretty well.  Here is a link to the OTS pattern.  Also take a look at the PAMPA website for additional PAMPA rules, rather widely followed.

http://www.ccmaconline.org/AMA%2051%20OTS%20Rules.pdf

Thankee Sir. I aim to study up on it now. That K&B is a right goodie.

Shug,

So I noticed that you fly the pattern with your LEFT hand, as I. Now, I am sure that Doc is going to tag you for your overhead eight. Here's why. You entered it from the center of the eight. The DRAWING for the overhead shows the manuever being entered from the bottom of the eight. (As a leftie, I'm sure you realize that's a very uncomfortable entry for you.)  BUT, note also that the text states the overhead eight shall be judged as all other eights. Got that? Now go back to Maneuver #11, the vertical eight. Note that the text in the illustration states that the manuever may be entered from EITHER the bottom, or the center. Likewise, the last sentence of the text for the vertical eight. Therefore manuever #12 is to be judged the same as manuever #11. I don't believe anyone needs to be a genius to understand this logic. But I have fought this for years, and no one, NO ONE agrees with those statements! 

I even asked George Aldrich and Bob Palmer at Brodak's one year and they agreed that they each entered the overhead from the center.

Jus' wanted to let you know what you might be up against as a 10%er!


Ward-O   

Wow...scratching my head on that. Really I just wanted to get through the OTS pattern without crashing.
 Trying to remember the moves and muttering to myself all the while. I will convene with my left hand and we will get it together for a proper OTS pattern.
Thanks for watching and commenting Ward.

Shug,
A few notes on the K&B 40. I have been flying this motor for the last six months in a Biplane and love this motor. I am using a 0.270" venturi, 7% nitro, 27% (50/50) oil turning an 11x5 APC prop (Mike K posted that this was the prop and he was right). One other thing that would save you some weight (lots of weight like 2 oz.) is to use a tongue muffler. I have been using one from Eric Rule at RSM that is for the OS 25, fits perfect, 1/2 oz. The K&B on my ship runs in a rich four cycle with just a hint of break at the tops. On the 7% fuel I burn about 3 3/4 oz for the OTS pattern with a 4.95 lap on 60 1/2' C to C.

Best,         DennisT

I appreciate all that intel. Running 10% with 27% castor from Brodak. Does have an 11x5 on it as Keith Sandberg had it set-up. He is real good with all that.
Sure is a fine running engine. I consider myself very lucky to be trusted with the Viking.
Thank you

[Jim Thomerson]

I agree with Ward on the overhead 8's and know one other person who agrees with us.  Most understand the judged same as statement to refer to roundness, intersections and placement of loops in the figure 8's.  If you are going to do anything unusual, check with the judges that they agree that you are legal.  Surprised judges give low scores. 

[Ron Cribbs]

Shug,

Excellent camera work, it must take a while to set that up and it shows.

Great flying!

I bet the judges would like a Fox .35 over a K&B .40

Excellent stuff my man.

[Dennis Toth]

On the prop, try the APC 11x5 it does make a difference. I would also consider going to at least 50/50 instead of all castor as the ring can get gummed up.

On the eights I noticed that for the horizontals you did a PAMPA modern eight where you did a full inside loop and then the outside. In the OTS pattern you need to start with half an inside then go into the outside and complete the inside. On the overheads you need to do the inside half of the eight first, not climb through the center. You start by climbing to 60 degrees then either start the inside over your left shoulder and come from the back through the center or start over your right shoulder and come through the center in front of you. You end the maneuver once you complete the last part of the inside on the third eight at 60 degrees, then drop down to level flight (typical mistake is guys finish the cross through the center and drop down before they complete the last half loop).

Best,        DennisT

[Mike Keville]

Correction!  On the OTS Overheads, you start over your left shoulder at not less than THIRTY degrees (not sixty)....fly half an inside loop, then an outside (3 times), exiting again over your left shoulder at not less than THIRTY degrees.

[Shug Emery]

I agree with Ward on the overhead 8's and know one other person who agrees with us.  Most understand the judged same as statement to refer to roundness, intersections and placement of loops in the figure 8's.  If you are going to do anything unusual, check with the judges that they agree that you are legal.  Surprised judges give low scores. 

I will take heed of this advice. Yessir!

Shug,
Excellent camera work, it must take a while to set that up and it shows.
Great flying!
I bet the judges would like a Fox .35 over a K&B .40
Excellent stuff my man.

Now this I love. Thank you.
Was in the mood to make a movie and was happy with some of the shots. I used three different cameras set around for this. Fu to fly and film. I love it.
For now the K&B is married to this Viking as it was given to me that way. My Fox .35 is on my Bi-Slob.

On the prop, try the APC 11x5 it does make a difference. I would also consider going to at least 50/50 instead of all castor as the ring can get gummed up.

On the eights I noticed that for the horizontals you did a PAMPA modern eight where you did a full inside loop and then the outside. In the OTS pattern you need to start with half an inside then go into the outside and complete the inside. On the overheads you need to do the inside half of the eight first, not climb through the center. You start by climbing to 60 degrees then either start the inside over your left shoulder and come from the back through the center or start over your right shoulder and come through the center in front of you. You end the maneuver once you complete the last part of the inside on the third eight at 60 degrees, then drop down to level flight (typical mistake is guys finish the cross through the center and drop down before they complete the last half loop).

Best,        DennisT

I know I have much work to do...and so I shall.
Thankee.

Correction!  On the OTS Overheads, you start over your left shoulder at not less than THIRTY degrees (not sixty)....fly half an inside loop, then an outside (3 times), exiting again over your left shoulder at not less than THIRTY degrees.

I am going to work on this tomorrow.....will make more sense to me with my handle in my hand. I do see it.
Much obliged.

[James_Mynes]

Shug, I appreciate and look forward to your video postings. The extra entertainment value you put in them never fails to bring a smile. I also enjoy the discussion they generate. While the 'judges' discuss what you should do differently I am learning some of the nuances and finer details of the OTS pattern. Thanks for your contributions, and keep 'em coming!

[Ward Van Duzer]

Yea, keep the Fox .35 on the Bi-Slob! The Viking will become a kite in the wind without some decent power. Best combo I've ever seen was a ST .46 / Viking.

W.

[Dennis Toth]

I agree with the minimum of 30 deg but you can start the overhead over either side as long as you start the inside half loop first and not climb from level flight up to the center. Several fliers at VSC use the right side entry to the overhead.

I learned to do the maneuver as Mike K indicated over my left shoulder coming from the back through the center. But since you fly with your left hand you might find the right side more comfortable.

Best, DennisT