Learning Outside Loop before doing the Lazy 8?

[Kafin Noe’man]

As a beginner flyer, I’m curious why doing the lazy 8 is the most recommended manuever to learn after getting better doing the inside loops? I often get cold feet to give a “towards the wheel” input when the airplane is upside down and sloped maybe 20 or 30 degrees downward after reaching the top of inside loop. Isn’t it better if I learn on how to do the outside loop first so I know how it feels to fly an outside loop?

Looking forward to hearing your thoughts!
Thanks!


Best,
Kafin

[Ken Culbertson]

As a beginner flyer, I’m curious why doing the lazy 8 is the most recommended manuever to learn after getting better doing the inside loops? I often get cold feet to give a “towards the wheel” input when the airplane is upside down and sloped maybe 20 or 30 degrees downward after reaching the top of inside loop. Isn’t it better if I learn on how to do the outside loop first so I know how it feels to fly an outside loop?

Looking forward to hearing your thoughts!
Thanks!


Best,
Kafin

Definitely not better.  The lazy 8 has you doing most of an outside loop as it is.  The problem with the outside loop from level flight is the unexpected acceleration you get the first time you try it and the panic that results in a too late tightening or reversing of the controls followed by a trip to the workbench for repairs or even worse the trash can since this will be a super high speed crash.  If you insist on going that route, do it from a wingover so that you are already headed down or at least from 60 degrees. 

The purpose of the lazy 8 is to introduce turning in the opposite direction you are used to and lean inverted flight.  It is not to learn the outside loop which is considerably more difficult from level flight than the inside loop.  If you start it too low you can easily put yourself in a position where neither up nor down control will prevent a crash. 

However, it is not a particularly difficult maneuver once you have acquired the skill sets to do it and #1 on that list is inverted flight so that you are comfortable with how the plane feels turning in the opposite direction. 

Ken

[Kafin Noe’man]

Thank you for your response, Ken.
It all makes sense.

If you insist on going that route, do it from a wingover so that you are already headed down or at least from 60 degrees. 

That 60 degrees is the starting point I was thinking.

[Dan McEntee]

  The purpose of flying the Lazy 8 is to get you into flying inverted. The next thing after being able to fly inverted for a few laps is to do outside loops, as that is the next maneuver in the pattern and that is done by starting from inverted level flight. After you get used to that, doing outside loops from upright will require some extra altitude and knowing that you and your model WILL clear the ground with about 4 to 6 feet to spare. By the time you get this far, your brain should be getting used to the idea of doing that successfully. The only time you really need to do it in competition is if flying Old Tyme Stunt and you desire to enter the loop from upright. It can be entered from inverted also. Getting used to doing outside loops give you some confidence in starting the outside square. They both require that initial "down" input to get started that you have to gain the intestinal fortitude to do repeatedly and confidently. Once you are at that point, then you work on doing it correctly as per the rule book with all four sides straight. Most every on tends to do the outside square with a sort of roundish front side, but repeated practice and trimming out of the airplane and fine tuning power plant gets you there. If you can do a respectable reverse wing over, you will get used to the outside square eventually.
  Type at you later,
    Dan McEntee

[Dennis Toth]

Kafin,
One suggestion while learning the maneuvers is to dry fly with your handle in your hand, imagine the ship doing the maneuver and mover your arm and wrist giving the correct control as you do this. Make sure as you do maneuvers to finish the maneuver and not neutralize the control before you finish the bottom (or you do the infamous figure "9". I agree with Ken learn the lazy 8 and as you get better you will do a more vertical intersection. At some point you can stretch out the intersection and start learning inverted flight, again practice with dry flying so you know what flight path you want to follow.

Best,   DennisT 

[Steve Helmick]

WAY better to learn to do all the tricks downwind. Too many fliers tend to do their tricks all willy-nilly, anywhere and everywhere. Other than being a good way to crash a lot, it also makes it impossible for the judgemental crew to give you the scores that you really deserve, simply because you've given them a lousy view of them. Having the right placement will give you the line tension to have confidence that your plane will get through them.  Steve