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Author Topic: Off Topic, But Did You See This?!  (Read 2808 times)

Offline Serge_Krauss

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Off Topic, But Did You See This?!
« on: March 02, 2014, 08:04:11 PM »
Thunderbirds, Blue Angels, B-2's, et.al., watch your six!

I finally found a NASCAR National Anthem remarkable for something besides being ludicrous. The trumpet player was not the source of my attention though. The show was stolen by a shocking formation of fifty (50!) homebuilt RV's passing overhead. I have never seen the crowd nor drivers themselves so looking skyward before. This is an incredible testimony of Dick Van Grunsven's dominance in home-crafted planes. Never did the great Steve Whitman, John Thorp, Burt Rutan, Curtis Pitts, nor anyone else before him accomplish THIS. His very ordinary and simple, but relatively high performance homebuilt RV series apparently had at least this number of successful customers within easy flying distance of Phoenix. One of our club members has built and flown his RV-4 regularly and says he flew to and from Oshkosh, averaging 160 kts ground speed at 75% power. Anyway, "The crowd roared."

Offline bill rutherford

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Re: Off Topic, But Did You See This?!
« Reply #1 on: March 02, 2014, 09:05:07 PM »
They also did a fly over before a Kansas city chiefs game this year. I was really happy to see an rv6 that I built in the formation. It was the red one. I sold it to a fed ex pilot from Memphis. Ryan and I went flying in an rv6a last sat and he was really impressed with the performance and said " flying the 152 will never be the same. " A new RV takes to the air every day and a half. I'm working on my 4th one now It will be a 6. It has been such an adventure building and flying them. This present build will be on a really slim budget of under$ 30,000 with a fresh o/ haul on a o-360 with a constant speed prop. It will also be IFR. Ah' but life is good except there is never enough time    Bill Rutherford

Offline Randy Cuberly

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Re: Off Topic, But Did You See This?!
« Reply #2 on: March 02, 2014, 10:22:59 PM »
Very interesting.  Hard ot believe, all that aerial hardware when the economy  is down.  It must be improving some.
Actually I would worry a bit with all those Hombuilts in close formation like that, there is bound to be a couple of "Low Time Pilots" wandering around and biting their fingernails, and sweating bullets.   LL~ LL~

Randy Cuberly
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Tucson, AZ

Offline john e. holliday

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Re: Off Topic, But Did You See This?!
« Reply #3 on: March 03, 2014, 07:51:02 AM »
My wife,  son and friends were at that Chiefs game.   She said the pilots were all bussed back to the game and introduced during half time. 
John E. "DOC" Holliday
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Shawnee, KANSAS  66203
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Offline Bob Reeves

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Re: Off Topic, But Did You See This?!
« Reply #4 on: March 03, 2014, 08:37:12 AM »
They also did a fly over before a Kansas city chiefs game this year. I was really happy to see an rv6 that I built in the formation. It was the red one. I sold it to a fed ex pilot from Memphis. Ryan and I went flying in an rv6a last sat and he was really impressed with the performance and said " flying the 152 will never be the same. " A new RV takes to the air every day and a half. I'm working on my 4th one now It will be a 6. It has been such an adventure building and flying them. This present build will be on a really slim budget of under$ 30,000 with a fresh o/ haul on a o-360 with a constant speed prop. It will also be IFR. Ah' but life is good except there is never enough time    Bill Rutherford

Not to change the subject but I heard it's tough to sell a homebuilt because you are in essence the manufacture and could be liable for anything that might happen forever.

Offline Serge_Krauss

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Re: Off Topic, But Did You See This?!
« Reply #5 on: March 03, 2014, 03:14:43 PM »
Bill- Great! You're on your fourth? That takes a lot of skill, patience, and sacrifice. I'm truly amazed at the RVs' performance. For a rectangular winged low-winger without a lot of obvious speed detail, it's markedly better than factory built's of like configuration. Thorp's and Whittman's homebuilts had some great but readily apparent features that made them fast, particularly the fuselage contoure and roots. But these small planes are quite good.

Randy - I thought the same thing. This formation flying takes skill, control, and constant adjustment, and I was just astonished at how they carried it off - like how and when did they practice? I'm wondering - it looked as though they actually flew over the stands. Did they?

Anyway, at the time EAA's membership and focus was on homebuilding and originality of design, we never saw anything like this...except for maybe 20 - 30 P-51's over Oshkosh. I thought it was just great!

SK

Offline Randy Cuberly

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Re: Off Topic, But Did You See This?!
« Reply #6 on: March 03, 2014, 03:28:56 PM »


Randy - I thought the same thing. This formation flying takes skill, control, and constant adjustment, and I was just astonished at how they carried it off - like how and when did they practice? I'm wondering - it looked as though they actually flew over the stands. Did they?

Anyway, at the time EAA's membership and focus was on homebuilding and originality of design, we never saw anything like this...except for maybe 20 - 30 P-51's over Oshkosh. I thought it was just great!

SK

Yeah but I doubt that there's any Low Time Pilots flying P-51's.

Incredible sight at any rate!

Randy Cuberly
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Offline Chris McMillin

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Re: Off Topic, But Did You See This?!
« Reply #7 on: March 03, 2014, 05:28:33 PM »
There are many low time pilots flying P-51's. The owners.
Chris...


Offline Serge_Krauss

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Re: Off Topic, But Did You See This?!
« Reply #9 on: March 04, 2014, 07:07:49 AM »
Thanks, Elwyn.

I found this 5-page RV site with some great shots and information

http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=110302

One page is wide - scroll to the right to find the next-page button. Apparently not all pilots were from nearby. I'm still interested in their backgrounds, but I suspect that many are fairly high-time pilots, probably some ex-military pilots.

SK

Offline Allan Perret

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Re: Off Topic, But Did You See This?!
« Reply #10 on: March 04, 2014, 07:39:05 AM »
They also did a fly over before a Kansas city chiefs game this year. I was really happy to see an rv6 that I built in the formation. It was the red one. I sold it to a fed ex pilot from Memphis. Ryan and I went flying in an rv6a last sat and he was really impressed with the performance and said " flying the 152 will never be the same. " A new RV takes to the air every day and a half. I'm working on my 4th one now It will be a 6. It has been such an adventure building and flying them. This present build will be on a really slim budget of under$ 30,000 with a fresh o/ haul on a o-360 with a constant speed prop. It will also be IFR. Ah' but life is good except there is never enough time    Bill Rutherford
Hey Bill:  How many of the 4 you built do you still currently own ?
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Offline Paul Smith

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Re: Off Topic, But Did You See This?!
« Reply #11 on: March 04, 2014, 08:18:36 AM »
According to my training, it's 2,000 feet minimum over a crowd.  I don't recall how far off to the side you need to be to be "not over".
Paul Smith

Offline bill rutherford

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Re: Off Topic, But Did You See This?!
« Reply #12 on: March 04, 2014, 10:18:09 PM »
I own one RV that I'm building , however I have access to two RVs at any time . Going to the Indy 500 this year in and RV6a . Went last year and it was a blast. Taking my grandson Reed this time.
   I fly out of Hooks airport in north west Houston. We have about 20 RV.s on the field. In addition we have a mustang, B17 , T28 T6 ect. It is pretty cool. About ever other month a couple of F18,s stop in for fuel and lunch. Life is not boring. I also get in some handle time on my stunt ship. Just not enough time.   Bill Rutherford

Offline Randy Cuberly

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Re: Off Topic, But Did You See This?!
« Reply #13 on: March 04, 2014, 11:55:44 PM »
There are many low time pilots flying P-51's. The owners.
Chris...

Well, I've been out of it for quite a while, and I'm certainly willing to take your word for it Chris, but when I was a lot younger the several folks I knew that had P51's were all high time pilots.  I guess it's pretty scary to think of some guy with a hundred or so hours on the stick turned loose on a high performance machine like that.  They can be pretty unforgiving of mistakes. 

Randy Cuberly
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Offline peabody

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Re: Off Topic, But Did You See This?!
« Reply #14 on: March 05, 2014, 02:25:30 AM »
I believe that Mickey Rupp (go-kart and sled guy) was the highest time P-51 driver for a long time

Offline Chris McMillin

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Re: Off Topic, But Did You See This?!
« Reply #15 on: March 05, 2014, 01:39:46 PM »
Well, I've been out of it for quite a while, and I'm certainly willing to take your word for it Chris, but when I was a lot younger the several folks I knew that had P51's were all high time pilots.  I guess it's pretty scary to think of some guy with a hundred or so hours on the stick turned loose on a high performance machine like that.  They can be pretty unforgiving of mistakes. 

Randy Cuberly

It's always been the same, Randy. In the mid sixties a Dr. Dick Snyder wrote a thesis based on the problems low time pilots had with high performance fighters surplussed at the time. He specified the P-51 for his paper. There were some sad and humorous stories in those case files. The rock and roll roadie flying his in just a bathing suit was very funny and understandable! I think it's online as a file for download, just google something like "Low time pilots and high performance fighters, P-51, Dr. Richard Snyder",or something like that and it'll come up.

There was a guy in southern Cal just 5 years or so ago that torque rolled one in inverted after a go around attempt during his first Mustang solo. Bad scene but a classic review of the old problem, which is allowing the airplane to fly itself in an untrimmed condition (landing trim for low power quickly adding high power resulting in a mistrimmed condition) into an inverted attitude close to the ground. The problem wasn't the airplane, the pilot didn't add enough control input (rudder is the primary control because the roll doesn't start until the airplane is some 45 degrees off heading usually, aileron usually makes the problem worse by the time the roll develops) to stop the roll moment. The rudder has high control pressures at high power and one must really push to get the input necessary, 100 pounds or more.

The guy that crashed at Stellar Air Park in Phoenix a couple of years back did a similar thing but had some experience in the airplane. My friends with knowledge of the pilots technique considered him too extreme in his 3-point landing style and didn't consider the crosswind when operating during the crash flight. A few more MPH on approach and he would've been fine. He stalled the downwind wing, which was the left wing, and added high power which rolls the left wing down and yaws the airplane left. Once the wing stalls on a Mustang it really goes down in a hurry and wing up aileron input just exacerbates the wing drop too.

But those are just a few of the ways to get killed in it. The low speed, high power accidents are usually from mishandling, just as is most every other. There are many accidents from people not appreciating the medical nuances of high altitude flight without oxygen, and many high speed impacts with the ground during aerobatics.

For the most part it's easy to fly and has a nice wide landing gear and steerable tailwheel. It doesn't accelerate very quickly compared to a jet, has a nice, slow, long takeoff run and if one has it trimmed correctly and pushes hard enough on the rudder pedal it can handle a heck of a left crosswind on take off just fine. It weighs 8,000 lbs and only has 1500 hp and an 11 foot prop so it's kind of between a T-6 and a Corsair (which I only wish I could fly, or Bearcat too) so it doesn't really have great take off and climb, the performance is once the nose is down and the cruise power set where it's speed shows up. It just keep accelerating to a high indicated speed. Typical is 2450 rpm and 36 inches gets 270 mph for 70 gallons per hour fuel burn.
Great light plane, when I win the lotto I'll have mine with leather interior, dual freon air conditioners (it needs them) and a super snazzy 60's civilian paint job! 


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