Author Topic: Of corroded tanks and spare .020s... (Read 4487 times)

minnesotamodeler · « **on:** November 20, 2006, 07:56:05 PM »

First things first:

Russell Shaffer, I rec'd the .020 parts today--thank you very much; between Frank and me they'll be put to good use.

Bill Dahlgren, I rec'd 2 more plans for autogyros from you; thanks, they are very interesting; a form of aerodynamics I know completely nothing about.

Frank Carlisle, I rec'd your check for two (2) Queen Bee kits today; thanks--I'm making progress on the kits; should have them in another few days.

ATTENTION: I have payments for Queen Bees from Mike Spiess, Richard Grogan, Bill Marvel and Jim Thomerson. Leroy Heikes, the time is near for you to get your payment in. As stated above, the kits will be ready to go in just a few days.

Anyone else interested in one, let me know now!

Now, Frank: I rec'd the NIB Beautiful Blue Brodak .049 today, along with my surprise "special bonus"! ("Heh heh heh heh...") But the joke's on (or will be) you! What you've forgotten is that I, of course, have last at-bats--I will soon be shipping your abovementioned kits to you. Wonder what surprises I can slip into them? Of course, I could be mature about all this and rise above the established level of juvenile (mis)behavior...nahhhh, no fun in that. Be afraid...be very afraid! Bwah-ha-ha-ha-ha!!!
(For those of you wondering , see post #28 and following in the "Finally: LittleAxe flight report" thread. Frank, that dirty dog, sent me that crappy little corroded tank after all...after I graciously left out of his package the extra junk I was going to send him.)

Last piece of business, Frank: What do you need to revive that frozen-up .020? I have, courtesy the above-mentioned Russell, two complete PeeWee .020s minus one head, plus one extra integral tank and backplate with the lugs broken off (an all-too-familiar sight around here). I have no idea what kind of shape they are in, but they gotta be better than what you have. I could clean and oil them up, and send you whichever one feels best, piston-&-sleeve or complete engine, whatever you need--that was part of the deal anyhow, they were sent to me with the intent to share with you. Let me know what you need.

--Ray

Edit to update payment list.

frank carlisle · « **Reply #1 on:** November 20, 2006, 08:50:19 PM »

Hi Ray,
After I read your post here I figured I'd take that .020 apart and see what's wrong with it-BUT- I can't find it. I'm sure it's around here somewhere. So please bear with me. I'll search for it again tomorrow.

Ray you do of course have last bats but I must tell you that even though I've gotten older I haven't matured. We could possibly be embarking on a wierd voyage that could eventually end up with us sending each other baggies of the stuff we sweep off the shop floor.

I'm going to go look for that little motor now.
BTW did you see that thread about the tiny Ringmaster?

minnesotamodeler · « **Reply #2 on:** November 21, 2006, 08:26:23 AM »

I did indeed, quite a little project. You will find, if you don't know already, when you build your Queen Bees that the smaller the plane, the more exacting and precise must be the construction. Some might judge that micro-Ringmaster to be a touch on the raggedy side, but I'm here to tell you (...Floyd?...) he did a masterful job on it. I'll be interested in hearing how it flies.

--Ray

frank carlisle · « **Reply #3 on:** November 21, 2006, 08:52:00 AM »

I got the BW today Ray........Very nice thanks.
I may try my hand at a teeny model. How about a full bodied .020 stunter?

Bill Little · « **Reply #4 on:** November 21, 2006, 09:01:45 AM »

Quote from: frank carlisle on November 21, 2006, 08:52:00 AM

I got the BW today Ray........Very nice thanks.
I may try my hand at a teeny model. How about a full bodied .020 stunter?

Now you're talkin' Frank! A flapped, full body, I-Beam .020 size stunter! Make it a mini-All American Eagle!

frank carlisle · « **Reply #5 on:** November 21, 2006, 09:43:42 AM »

Quote from: Bill Little on November 21, 2006, 09:01:45 AM

Now you're talkin' Frank! A flapped, full body, I-Beam .020 size stunter! Make it a mini-All American Eagle!

I'd need plans Bill

frank carlisle · « **Reply #6 on:** November 21, 2006, 09:48:54 AM »

Ray,
I found that little bugger! It was right where I'd left it. I fiddled with it a bit and now it turns over and has compression. The needle needs replacing and one of the mounting lugs on the backplate is broken.
I have a glow head that lights up. The one on the engine is pretty chewed up and is stuck on there pretty good. How should I go about getting it off without wrecking the cylinder?

Garf · « **Reply #7 on:** November 21, 2006, 11:16:11 AM »

Heat the entire cyllinder, then apply ice to the head.

Bill Little · « **Reply #8 on:** November 21, 2006, 11:16:57 AM »

Quote from: frank carlisle on November 21, 2006, 09:43:42 AM

I'd need plans Bill

Just take the Classic PLanes PAMPA book to a copier and blow up the ones in it to about 18"-20" WS! Build it all out of 1/20th and 1/32nd wood................ *Maybe* 1/16th for the I-Beam ribs and a 1/8th I-Beam spar...........

frank carlisle · « **Reply #9 on:** November 21, 2006, 01:20:17 PM »

Bill -- wouldn't 18-20 inches be to big for an .020?

minnesotamodeler · « **Reply #10 on:** November 21, 2006, 02:29:03 PM »

I don't know, I fired mine up in my basement workroom, thinking "It's just an .020" and the prop blast put all my papers and plans in the floor before I could get it shut off. I was kinda surprised at the output. It may pull a 18" or 20" wingspan stunter, lightly built, just fine...we may have to find out, huh?

--Ray

minnesotamodeler · « **Reply #11 on:** November 21, 2006, 02:31:54 PM »

Quote from: Garf on November 21, 2006, 11:16:11 AM

Heat the entire cyllinder, then apply ice to the head.

Glad to hear there's a way, I have an .049 that's stuck; I bent two wrenches trying to force it off. I did try the heat, but not the ice. Something else to try.

--Ray

frank carlisle · « **Reply #12 on:** November 21, 2006, 03:45:16 PM »

Quote from: Garf on November 21, 2006, 11:16:11 AM

Heat the entire cyllinder, then apply ice to the head.

I'll give it a try too.

Bill Little · « **Reply #13 on:** November 21, 2006, 04:08:44 PM »

Quote from: frank carlisle on November 21, 2006, 01:20:17 PM

Bill -- wouldn't 18-20 inches be to big for an .020?

Maybe, but it has always seemed that a full bodied stunter can be a *little* bigger than a profile. 16" maybe?

minnesotamodeler · « **Reply #14 on:** November 21, 2006, 04:27:05 PM »

I betcha I could design a 20" span, built-up fuselage flapped stunter, maybe 100-120 sq. in., target weight let's say 5 oz., or however much less I could make it, that a PeeWee .020 would fly. I'm thinking maybe 20' lines in pretty much a dead calm.

I may chew on that awhile. How about a new category: Indoor C/L?

--Ray

minnesotamodeler · « **Reply #15 on:** November 21, 2006, 04:38:05 PM »

Ray,
I found that little bugger! It was right where I'd left it. I fiddled with it a bit and now it turns over and has compression. The needle needs replacing and one of the mounting lugs on the backplate is broken.
I have a glow head that lights up. The one on the engine is pretty chewed up and is stuck on there pretty good. How should I go about getting it off without wrecking the cylinder?

Quote

So what do you need? Just a NV, or a backplate/nv assembly, or what? Let me know, I'll get a Care package to you..

--Ray

frank carlisle · « **Reply #16 on:** November 21, 2006, 04:39:35 PM »

Ray------

Is there a needle in that stuff for .020 that you can spare for my .020?

Russell Shaffer · « **Reply #17 on:** November 21, 2006, 06:23:38 PM »

You mentioned the surprising power of those things - as far as I can remember, the only times those engines flew were on Goldberg Ranger 30's. They were an all-sheet balsa free flight with - suprise- a 30 inch wing. We just filled the tanks and turned them loose. Lost one for several months after a windy day flight, but the ranch had who found it knew that the Shaffer kids flew airplanes. Really made my brother's day since it was the first flight on his plane. Never ever had one thermal, so they were probably pretty heavy.

minnesotamodeler · « **Reply #18 on:** November 21, 2006, 07:34:37 PM »

Quote from: frank carlisle on November 21, 2006, 04:39:35 PM

Ray------

Is there a needle in that stuff for .020 that you can spare for my .020?

Yah, you betcha...just the needle? I'll get it in the mail.

--Ray

frank carlisle · « **Reply #19 on:** November 21, 2006, 07:44:18 PM »

Quote from: minnesotamodeler on November 21, 2006, 07:34:37 PM

Yah, you betcha...just the needle? I'll get it in the mail.

--Ray

Just the needle........thanks.

Clancy Arnold · « **Reply #20 on:** November 21, 2006, 07:54:01 PM »

I have a question? How much would you recommend reducing the size of an existing 1/2A model to power it with an .020?
What % of original size. Would 77% sound good or should I go smaller or larger?
Clancy
Ps I don't want to name the .049 model yet.

frank carlisle · « **Reply #21 on:** November 21, 2006, 08:04:30 PM »

Quote from: Clancy Arnold on November 21, 2006, 07:54:01 PM

I have a question? How much would you recommend reducing the size of an existing 1/2A model to power it with an .020?
What 5 of original size. Would 77% sound good or should I go smaller or larger?
Clancy
Ps I don't want to name the .049 model yet.

Ray is the guy that has that answer.

So? Are we all now going to see who can build the tiniesl model?

minnesotamodeler · « **Reply #22 on:** November 21, 2006, 09:56:25 PM »

No, I have no answer...just a guess. I'd think more like 60%. For instance, that would put a 36" span 1/2A (my LittleAxe, for instance) at 21 1/2"; 120 sq. in. Seems to me that would be a good place to start. But I know nothing!

--Ray

frank carlisle · « **Reply #23 on:** November 22, 2006, 03:47:44 AM »

how about a speed plane for .020? Half a wing-Half a tail?

Clancy Arnold · « **Reply #24 on:** November 22, 2006, 01:11:54 PM »

Ray
Jack Sheeks And I did indoor stunt 20 years ago. Electric powered through the lines with the battery on our belt, see the bill boss scale column in MA about 1985 or 86. Am at Jacks house now so will add the date later. Jack says that 9 of his designs are Classic Elegable out of the 69 models he has had published.
Clancy
Date was April 1985 issue.

minnesotamodeler · « **Reply #25 on:** November 22, 2006, 07:45:22 PM »

Cool...electric would of course lend itself to indoor. How did you insulate the flying lines?

--Ray

Clancy Arnold · « **Reply #26 on:** November 23, 2006, 06:38:30 AM »

Ray
We used #28 magnet wire (enamel coated copper). The power source was a 24 volt nicad pack with a 5 amp fuse. We added a variable resistor in series with one line and that varied the power to the model. For motors we used a 12 volt tape recorder motor in one model and a WOMP slot car motor geared down to power the scale model. The motors pulled about 0.5 amps at full throttle. For props we used red plastic props from rubber models. To keep the models light we did not paint them. Remember NO fuel to spill. Our testing was in a school gym. Jack lost a wheel during the test flying but had enough power to take off with one wheel missing and the model resting on one wheel and one wire.
Remember that when you break a flying wire the model instantly becomes a glider. Therefore pull test is not a safety factor in this mode.
Clancy

minnesotamodeler · « **Reply #27 on:** November 23, 2006, 02:50:14 PM »

Very interesting...several questions:

What length lines did you use? What size models (wingspan, etc.)?

Did the lines bind much with several twists in them (consecutive loops)? I can't imagine the planes produced very much line tension, seems like this might be a potential problem.

With a twist or two in the lines, and rubbing against each other, wouldn't the enamel coating tend to wear through? With a disastrous short-out? "Going down in flames" might take on a whole new meaning!

--Ray

Clancy Arnold · « **Reply #28 on:** November 23, 2006, 04:57:32 PM »

First the enamel seems to be well attached to the copper, I still have the model and the wire shows no indication of a problem. We used about 25 foot lines. The original speed control was a 2 Watt 25 ohm pot and it got hot. Second control was a slot car controller that worked fine. Did not get to do consecutive loops because--- see below.

The worry about fire is not a problem, remember to put a 5 amp fuse in the circuit.