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General control line discussion => Open Forum => Topic started by: Mark Scarborough on June 25, 2008, 07:35:53 AM
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Jus tthought this guy was kinda adventurous with his large scale B-29. After dropping the X-1 glider he proceeds to do aerobatics with it
http://shock.military.com/Shock/videos.do?displayContent=170121&ESRC=airforce.nl
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Just an example of what you can do with a model that you can't with full scale. The fs B-29 probably wasn't built to take a roll, although the 707 was.
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Just an example of what you can do with a model that you can't with full scale. The fs B-29 probably wasn't built to take a roll, although the 707 was.
I am sure that a B-29 could be safely rolled - a barrel roll is a very mild positive-G maneuver.
BTW, the X-1 itself was capable of surviving just about anything - it was stressed to 18 gs . Several people did very wild (and unintentional) aerobatics in it, since it was only marginally controllable above mach 2.
Brett
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BTW, the X-1 itself was capable of surviving just about anything - it was stressed to 18 gs . Several people did very wild (and unintentional) aerobatics in it, since it was only marginally controllable above mach 2.
Brett
I bet that was exciting for the pilot! Of coarse with no ground referance I guess it would be less exciting.
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The guy flying the b-29 has some serious skill and confidence to boot! I loved the flat spin and the two parachutes!
I wonder if the x-1 would be a good CL model if you used a pusher?
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I bet that was exciting for the pilot! Of coarse with no ground referance I guess it would be less exciting.
Yeager got it completely unstable at about mach 2.4, knocked himself out on the cockpit, but came to in time to recover and land safely. They limited it to around mach 2 max for the rest of the program. That was the bane of all the early supersonic airplanes - lack of directional stability at speed. Something similar happened on the X-2 , but at mach 3.2. and that ended up being fatal.
The X-15 was perfectly stable in its natural state all the way up to mach 6+, but one of them did go unstable from a control system issue and went into an inverted flat spin on re-entry at about mach 5. Somehow the pilot broke the spin but it went unstable for another control system problem and eventually broke up and of course killed the pilot. The problem with mach 6+ for the X-15 is that it darn near burned up despite being coated with ablative heat shield material, permanently damaging the underlying airframe, and couldn't safely be flown again. That's the one in the Air Force museum and still holds the speed record for "conventional" aircraft.
I am not sure what you mean about no ground reference, both the original XS-1s and the later A, B, D, E all had decent outside visibility.
Brett
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I did a little Goggle research and "Chuck Yeager said the B-29 could not be rolled". The pilot of the pane that dropped Yeager's X-1 a B-50 not a B-29 was said to have done a roll after Chuck broke the sound barrier but in a interview with him he said he did not role the plane. The B-36 was rolled and the 707 and the 747 were also. The book Wide Body tell about it. I would guess if you had a striped down plane and could keep the motors running and with positive G's in it you should be able to do a role. The motors on the B29 were a constant problem. The B-50 had much improved motors and they were rated at over 3000 hp.I am sure someone will find something to prove it has been done.
Ed
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Just about any airplane will do a barrel roll since it's a positive g manuver when done right, aileron roll uh-uh, unless the airframe is designed for negative g's! I think there are urban legend stories about commercial jets doing barrel rolls, but I doubt if there are any real happenings.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-vHiYA6Dmws
well judge for yourself Don, words from the man who did it himself
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He did it again with a 747
Ed
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My Dad was an engineering test pilot at Wright-Patterson after his return from the Occupation of Japan, and flew most of our stuff, and many Allied and captured Axis planes. Once, I asked him if he ever flew a B-29, and he said yes. And added that it was a bear to fly, taking all the strength a pilot could muster to perform required flight maneuvers. He was a pretty big fella for his time in history, at 5'10" and probably 170 lbs, somewhat of a HS athlete. I'd think that even a 'bold' pilot would refrain from attempting something as frisky as a roll, barrel or axial, in a 1:1 scale B-29.
There is no question that Tex Johnson did roll the 707 prototype over the Gold Cup Hydro race course, but I'd never heard that he (or anybody) rolled a 747 at any time, anywhere. Maybe Ted or David? LL~ Steve
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Tex Johnson's roll of the prototype 707 is a well known event. Urban legends I referred to were ones about commercial flights with paying passengers onboard. Fully possible, but not likely.
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Tex Johnson's roll of the prototype 707 is a well known event. Urban legends I referred to were ones about commercial flights with paying passengers onboard. Fully possible, but not likely.
I think there were more than a few rolls involved with the guys who got that 727 supersonic (when they accidentally actuated the flaps on only one side of the airplane, at altitude).
Brett