no flaps or flaps how big?

[John Carrodus]

I like to mess about with my own designs. But I see some models flying the full pattern with an elevator only. I see others with flaps and wonder why? What is the general rule of thumb - if there is one? If you go for flaps , how big and how much up and down in relation to the elevator? etc etc etc. Like most things, I'm sure there is more to it than meets the eye.
Any ideas, experience or comments please.

[John Rist]

Start with the full size plans of a proven design.  Change the looks to make it your own.   Keep the airfoil, tail volume, spacing, and throes the same.  Stunt ship design has been evolving since the 1950s.  Unless you have a lot of knowledge it would be beginners luck to come up with a totally original design that is a world class stunt ship.   

[John McFayden]

Get a copy of Ted Fancher's article on the Imitation. It has just about everything you would ever need to know on flaps.


John McFayden

[Brett Buck]

Also check out this thread:

https://stunthanger.com/smf/at-the-handle/long-discussion-of-flap-stuff-and-the-zero-ounce-stunter-from-ted/

   Brett

[Ken Culbertson]

I like to mess about with my own designs. But I see some models flying the full pattern with an elevator only. I see others with flaps and wonder why? What is the general rule of thumb - if there is one? If you go for flaps , how big and how much up and down in relation to the elevator? etc etc etc. Like most things, I'm sure there is more to it than meets the eye.
Any ideas, experience or comments please.

John's advice is probably the best here.  One thing I would caution against is adding flaps to a plane not designed for them or pulling them from one that was unless you know what else should change.   Flaps are not necessary to simply fly the pattern but they are needed to make it competitive for all but a few fliers (and I think they are using mass hypnosis techniques).  Flapped planes are also easier to fly which came as a shock to me when I flew my first flapped stunter. 

Let me add since you like to "roll your own".  I have designed almost everything I have flown since the late 50's and I modified the heck out of all but two of the stunt ship kits I built (my first Nobler and a Skylark).   No matter how innovative I thought I was, the best of my designs ended up just like some other poor fool who also thought they were being original.  The band of workable designs a the top level is quite narrow and which is the *Best* really depends on who is flying it.  So pick one you like as your starting point then tinker with it till you find what *you* like.  Originality points went out a long time ago but what you see at the end of the lines still has to stir the juices or you will never fly it to it's potential. 

Don't worry about "stealing" someone's design, maybe "borrowing" would be a better word.  They copied it from a guy who got from a guy and so on.  Most of the fliers I know would take copying their plane as a complement.

[John Carrodus]

Thanks everyone. The topic is fascinating and I am quickly reminded that 'Flaps' ( like most aspects of CL stunt) do not stand alone , but depend on so many other aircraft parameters. I am much clearer now about some elements in the mix - BUT-  also challenged by other aspects I had never thought about and need answers to also. I have some study, building , flying and experimenting ahead. I guess this is what CL stunt is all about. Love it! Cheers and remember, control liners move in higher circles.

[Ken Culbertson]

Thanks everyone. The topic is fascinating and I am quickly reminded that 'Flaps' ( like most aspects of CL stunt) do not stand alone , but depend on so many other aircraft parameters. I am much clearer now about some elements in the mix - BUT-  also challenged by other aspects I had never thought about and need answers to also. I have some study, building , flying and experimenting ahead. I guess this is what CL stunt is all about. Love it! Cheers and remember, control liners move in higher circles.

It is like golf - a game you can never win but trying to is worth the trip.

Ken