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General control line discussion => Open Forum => Topic started by: GGeezer on August 06, 2009, 12:38:58 AM
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:'( :'( :'(
I just started flying C/L after an absence of 50 years and this evening my new Fancherized Twister, which I had just gotten trimmed out to fly well, met its demise. I was practicing the Beginner Pattern when the vertical 8 went terribly wrong! It looks pretty bad in the photo but when I got it home and carefully looked it over, I think I can fix it.
Strangely, I didn't break the prop or bend the landing gear, I guess that's the advantage of going straight in.
So...... what can one say to salve the bruised ego:
"Nothing ventured, nothing gained"
"Faint hearts never won fair maidens"
Orv.
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Orv,
Sorry for your misfortune. I think most of us have had similar experiences with the emphasis on the plural of "experience."
If I'm not mistaken though, the "vertical" eight is not a part of the beginner's pattern. Intermediate and beyond require that maneuver. The "horizontal" eight is the one called for in the beginner's pattern.
Joe
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"Really, not that bad." As my friend Dan Banjok has said when looking over many a wreck much worse than yours. Usually he was right, too. The crashed bird resurrected and flying within a few weeks. You might want to epoxy 1/32" ply reinforcements over the center of the trailing edge, top and bottom. Extend them an inch or so, on either side of the fuse. When a plane goes in it's the trailing edge that frequently lets go, giving you a wing break like the one you've got. Often a problem for me, when learning the pattern. The ply tabs saved more than one wing, I even powered straight in once (with a Twister), failing to pull out from a wing over. Amazing. No damage. The ground was soft enough to bury the nose. Still. You're victim of the infamous figure 9. Part of the process. Joe is right, the beginner pattern has no vertical eight, only a horizontal eight. For some reason, I've wiped out more birds doing the 8 (9) than any other maneuver in the pattern. Watch it. Usually I get caught up in trying to finesse a nice round bottom. Wham. Flying a down leg can go pretty fast.
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Good advice from Dennis. Strengthening the center section of the trailing edge of the wing would do a lot in the way of minimizing damage to the wing in the event of a nose first crash.
Also, as an afterthought to my first reply to this post, perhaps Orv intended to say he was attempting an "overhead" eight when he crashed which (along with the horizontal eight) is required in the beginner's pattern.
Joe
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Put it on the shelf for a couple of weeks, then look it over......it won't look so bad.
Phil
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That's too bad Orv. It looks like you can get it back together, with a little perserverence. I don't think there is a vertical 8 in the beginner pattern. When I was in beginner, there were horizontal 8s and overhead 8s, but no verticals.
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Been there done that! It gets better as you burn more fuel. Trust me. y1
And yes any plane can be rebuilt. It just picks up a little weight. I look forward to seeing pictures of it all back together again.
Never give up and welcome back to C/L. H^^
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Thanks for the advice and kind words folks.
You are right, there is no vertical 8 in the beginner pattern. I was going to see if I could do the vertical before attempting the overhead. I had done the components of the 8 and thought it would be easy to combine them for the complete maneuver. It wasn't the dreaded "9" that got me. I was at the top of the inside loop when I pulled too much down to start the outside loop and actually stalled the plane. It stopped flying and when it started flying again and I regained control, it was low and headed straight down so it hadn't built up too much speed when it hit the ground.
One of the other factors here is that I started flying a non-flapped model and I hadn't become accustomed to the much tighter turning radius of the flapped Twister and just over controlled it.
Orv.
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I did pretty much the same thing with my Profile Oriental - 2 times in fact. 1st time it looked about like yours, and I repaired it. I figure 9'ed it again yesterday, hit the same spot on the circle even, and the damage was worse. I think it is done this time, but I'll salvage the hardware and use it on a Twister I am building.
A couple sticks of 1/4" balsa goes a long way to getting the wing back together, spar plices / doubler and LE / TE reinforcements. there are some pic of the repairs to my oriental wing in the Builder discussion. Once you get started they go back together pretty fast- and you are not so nervous flying it- you already know it can crash!
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5 minute epoxy and hot stuff could fix that in an hour. I bet if you had done that 1st round at a contest you would've!
Chris...
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Been there done that,,
You can get that back together pretty quick I bet,
a couple thoughts,
If you stalled it by overturning, you really may want to look at narrowing your handle spacing so you dont have excess control deflection, its amazing just how little movement on the controls it takes to make even the squares when the plane is balanced properly.
Another note, if it went in with the motor running, I would very seriously consider trashing the prop even though it appears to be ok. It is very hard to see stress cracks in some of the APC props after they are subjected to "sudden stop syndrome"
Good luck on the rebuild, and refly,,,
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If you stalled it by overturning, you really may want to look at narrowing your handle spacing so you dont have excess control deflection, its amazing just how little movement on the controls it takes to make even the squares when the plane is balanced properly.
Another note, if it went in with the motor running, I would very seriously consider trashing the prop even though it appears to be ok. It is very hard to see stress cracks in some of the APC props after they are subjected to "sudden stop syndrome"
Good luck on the rebuild, and refly,,,
Mark,
That evening, I had taken my mentor Monty's advice and narrowed the handle spacing by 1". This really smoothed out my flying but could have inadvertently led to the trouble. I should have put in many more flights just to get used to the new response. I was now so focused on not undercontrolling the plane and flying it into the ground that my brain kept telling me "you have to push and pull more to get the same response as before" so I guess I did.
Looking over the plane, I notice that the top engine bearer is broken (the bottom bearer engine bolts snapped off so the bearer is ok). I'm not sure what the best fix would be, replacing the bearer would be a major job.
Orv.
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Some of the best advice I ever got when I started learning to stunt: "If you don't want to crash, don't fly." It's part of the experience as you learn new stunts ( and new ways to crash). Also hones your building skills as you learn to repair.
Welcome to the club!
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Folks...G.Geezer is in Saskatoon, Saskatchewan.
Orv...Get busy fixing that Tweester! The snows will fly in another month or so, and you'll wish you had gotten more flights in. "Monty the Mentor" is Monty Summach, aka the hottest Expert PA flier in all of Saska-whichever. Say hello for me, Orv. Missed coming up to "Eddie" this weekend...get that Prairie Fire contest going again next year! :-[
There are maneuvers I like to do, and ones I don't like to do. The V8 is one that I'm not too fond of. I've crashed more in the V8 than any other. Yet, I love the Clover, which is sorta the same as two of them, side by side. Best plan is to NOT crash and NOT get to dislike any of the tricks. A well trimmed plane with plenty of good power is a big help. Not pushing yourself or the plane until the trim is good and you're used to the plane is another big positive. H^^ Steve