Video Camera Questions

[Joe Ed Pederson]

I couldn't think of anything I needed for Christmas when my wife asked, but this morning I thought about the Sony video camera I keep seeing at Wal-Mart for $189.00 (last I looked).  I don't have and won't get a smart phone.

I'm thinking of getting video camera and a tripod to help with trimming my stunt models.      There's nobody around to tell me if the outboard wing is high or low or level.  And I don't think I can distinguish whether the plane is just right or if it's yawing in or out by looking at the landing gear.   I don't seem to have the calibrated eyeballs that the expert flyers have.

Anyway, are video cameras useful tools to help me trim my models?

Recommendations, please.

Thanks,
Joe Ed Pederson
Cuba, MO

[Dave_Trible]

Joe Ed YES cameras are very helpful.  However I'd just go get a $30.00 Go Pro type.  I bought a very expensive Sony a few years ago with wide angle and projection.  Like near $1000.00 for everything with accessories.  I find the pictures are very dark and hard to see and the projection onto a wall so faint and fuzzy its almost unusable.  The Go Pro cams will get you what you need on your laptop or desktop.  Also it's easy to store flights in the little disc for future reference.

Dave

[Mark wood]

Using a camera can be very helpful, especially for reviewing your maneuvers. It's really hard to get good video of the airplane well enough for trimming purposes from the outside. I have been making videos for the purpose of understanding the flight conditions during maneuvers and have mounted cameras to the fuselage and the tail. The first time I simply attached the fuselage cam with some command strip. I wanted to know if the camera would survive. Today I have a new camera for the purpose of watching the flights but is expensive at $500 with various attachment a DJI Pocket 2 Creator. I haven't yet used it anything other than learning about its functionality. There are cheaper knockoff versions and I don't know anything about any of them really. I bought what I had because I talked  to someone who had one and they were happy with it.

An interesting result of flying the camera on the fuselage is that you can see what's going on in terms of trim. What I thought was good trim was actually close trim. I'm reasonably good at identifying wing high wing low and correcting those while flying. It's a matter of flying different maneuvers in specific manors which highlight the behavior. When I made my CL selfie video, I noticed that when I would do an inside maneuver, the wing tip raised up and covered me and during outside maneuvers there was more space between the wing tip and me. This is indicative of a roll being introduced. Whether it is wingtip weight or not is another exercise. Bottom line is I had previously worked the tip weight to plus or minus a few #5 shot. So I measured the flap areas inside and out and then added a trim tab ala Igor's method and the small amount of rolling went away.

Here's a video of the selfie:



And the camera I am using:

https://www.amazon.com/ATOSO-Videocam-Portable-Detection-Support/dp/B07WZ1QWY9/ref=sr_1_1?crid=3845TBJFKYOG2&keywords=sq8+mini+camera&qid=1641065339&sprefix=sq8%2Caps%2C98&sr=8-1

[kevin king]

It could also be the extra weight and drag of the camera that may be causing the trim issue. Thats why i use the 808 # 16 camera. Its light and has fairly low profile. I asked Shug about this and he said his camera caused no issues, despite being larger and more bulky, so I could be wrong. Cool video anyway 👍

[Howard Rush]

I doubt if a camera on a tripod would be useful for trimming. It’s hard enough for a person to tell whether wings are level by watching the plane for several laps.  I don’t think a camera on a tripod would tell you anything finer than you could feel at the handle.  I like Mark’s idea of mounting the camera on the airplane, but the effects on airplane mass distribution and airflow might degrade trim as much as it helps you to correct it. The 808 camera Kevin suggested is dandy and little.  I made a couple of videos with one.  Resolution is good.   An 808 camera peeking out from indoors might be the bee’s knees.

[Mark wood]

It could also be the extra weight and drag of the camera that may be causing the trim issue. Thats why i use the 808 # 16 camera. Its light and has fairly low profile. I asked Shug about this and he said his camera caused no issues, despite being larger and more bulky, so I could be wrong. Cool video anyway 👍

Nah, the impact of the camera is near zero. They weigh less than an ounce and are located within an inch of the centerline. If you watch you can also see the impact of propeller precession in the corners. The wingtip moves forward and aft as well. Both are so minimal that the from the inside you can't really see it very well unless you know exactly how to look. The correction for the rolling was 1/8" x 1/4" x 4" piece of balsas taped to the outboard flap at it's tip. That's exactly the difference in area between the two flaps. Once balanced, the rolling went away. If you find my other fuse cam videos you'll see the improvement in performance. I've decided this to be a permanent addition to the trimming tools arsenal. Well, until the airborne data recorder shows it's a better tool. 

[phil c]

.........

I'm thinking of getting video camera and a tripod to help with trimming my stunt models.      There's nobody around to tell me if the outboard wing is high or low or level.  And I don't think I can distinguish whether the plane is just right or if it's yawing in or out by looking at the landing gear.   I don't seem to have the calibrated eyeballs that the expert flyers have.

Anyway, are video cameras useful tools to help me trim my models?

Recommendations, please.

Thanks,
Joe Ed Pederson
Cuba, MO

joe ed- the simplest way to determine if the plane is rolling to one side or the other is to do  inside loops normal size directly down wind.  Try to do them topping out at 60deg high.   If nothing happens try smaller loops up in the same area.  Usually any bad problem will show up on the upper quarters of the loop.  If it's rolling even a bit to the left the plane will "rock" or glitch in the upper right part of an inside loop. 

Also try similar outside loop a bit farther to the left. If the plane has a right roll built in it will glitch in the upper left corner of the loops.

Don't push this test. there is no reason to try and prove a point.  Downwind an inside loop will glitch  in the upper right quadrant of the loop if the plane has a left roll.  It will glitch in the upper left quadrant of an outside loop.

I've seen a number of folks have this problem at contests.  A bit too much wind, a bit too much control up high or an unnoticed warp can cause the plane to fly out of a vertical eight or an overhead eight and the pilot lose control.

I had my favorite Palmer Smoothie nearly crash at Brodak's contest a few years ago. Ground level the wind seemed at my back so I climbed up and started the inside loop.  Above the trees it was much stronger and directly from the left.  The plane threatened to fall in on me so I gave up.  I whipped as hard as I could overhead and got it aimed towards the judges.  It kind of floated over and the helpful wind pushed it out far enough that I could do a square outside corner up fairly high but below the trees. The wind helped blow the plane  into the second inside loop and had eased off enough for a moment that the second outside loop went fairly close to where the intersection  and the plane went down towards the judges and I pulled it out and just kepti it low.  A Pretty Improbable Maneuver.

[john e. holliday]

Joe, what ever camera you get make sure the instructions are big enough to read.  Also make sure your eye sight is good as well as hearing.  I have several cameras which I have tried to use.  Did get a couple of shots by accident.   Have to use magnifying glass to read instructions.  To bad we are so far a part so you could fly my planes and set my cameras.

[Mark wood]

Joe, what ever camera you get make sure the instructions are big enough to read.  Also make sure your eye sight is good as well as hearing.  I have several cameras which I have tried to use.  Did get a couple of shots by accident.   Have to use magnifying glass to read instructions.  To bad we are so far a part so you could fly my planes and set my cameras.

I think you forgot the, in understandable English part.

[Ken Culbertson]

I doubt if a camera on a tripod would be useful for trimming. It’s hard enough for a person to tell whether wings are level by watching the plane for several laps.  I don’t think a camera on a tripod would tell you anything finer than you could feel at the handle.  I like Mark’s idea of mounting the camera on the airplane, but the effects on airplane mass distribution and airflow might degrade trim as much as it helps you to correct it. The 808 camera Kevin suggested is dandy and little.  I made a couple of videos with one.  Resolution is good.   An 808 camera peeking out from indoors might be the bee’s knees.

Howard I must respectfully disagree about the usefulness of the video camera.  They tell you everything the plane is doing.  It is WHERE you place the camera.  I place mine 90 degrees from the "judges position most use" and back far enough to see the plane coming and going.  You see the maneuvers from the "nose and tail" and every little bit of yaw, roll shows up.  Line angle is a triangle on the screen and a straight edge (from wrist to outboard wingtip) tells you if you are wings level at all elevations and how much sag there is in the lines.  Another benefit is getting to see all those wild useless arm motions we all swear we don't do that are covered up by the "classic" camera position. To get maximum effect all you need a camera that will produce a video that will show the lines in slow motion.  Most cell phones qualify.

I have one now that was giving me fits.  It wanted to float inverted.  Visual feedback suggested wings not level but the video shows that they are, just differences in altitude.  Slightly Up in both directions - tip weight anyone?  Without that I would still be tweaking flaps and not fixing the real problem.  Some people can instinctively see these things, I am not one of them.

Ken

[Joe Ed Pederson]

Thanks to everyone for the responses and input.

Joe Ed Pederson

[Howard Rush]

It wanted to float inverted.

It's flooding down in Texas.  All of the telephone lines are down.