Leadout hole size

[Steve Bakac]

Hi guys just open up a pack of brodak's black leadout guides and notice the holes where the wire comes out are way bigger then I'm use to say around 4.5 to 5mm.So the question is will this effect the trimming like hinging n yawing with that much clearance in holes?Do I bush them down a little?
Cheers Steve

[Ron Varnas]

Sounds like Windy's old line guides is it black plastic with approx. 1/4" LO holes ?

[Brett Buck]

Hi guys just open up a pack of brodak's black leadout guides and notice the holes where the wire comes out are way bigger then I'm use to say around 4.5 to 5mm.So the question is will this effect the trimming like hinging n yawing with that much clearance in holes?Do I bush them down a little?
Cheers Steve

  I think the holes are probably 3/16" and that is OK. It's more important that it not bind up than it be really small. if you made them 1/8", that would reduce the slop by 1/16 (0.0625). Over a 30" base, that's 0.12 degrees, and I can guarantee with metaphysical certainty that you aren't getting the trim to the point that 0.12 degrees matters in terms or roll or yaw angle.

     Brett

[Fredvon4]

I am just an old Artilleryman so more familiar with Radian and suspect (but admit I do not know of) Brett and the Mars expedition guys use even finer resolution math notations for angles

But I do remember from Army Basic training:

Why is one revolution divided into 360 parts called "degrees"?

Because the ancient Babylonians, now four- or five-thousand years dead, viewed the numbers 6, 12, and 60 as having particular religious significance.

It is because of them
 that we have twelve-hour nights and twelve-hour days, with each hour divided into sixty minutes and each minute divided into sixty seconds. Also their fault is the fact that "once around" (that is, one full revolution) is divided into 6×60 = 360 parts called "degrees".

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I suspect we use Degrees because Radian Mils, a much finer resolution, is hard to measure on our short span wings--- with current tools

I do hope Brett and Steve luck with converting Line III to get even much more precise with LO angles for a given CG and other aero considerations

I choose my Lead out guides by--- on hand material or store bought stuff... never thinking that the diameter has a lot of concern EXCEPT large enough to NOT cause added sticktion or friction

.027 wire needs a hole large enough to NOT drag....but that hole could easily be 3/32 vs 1/16th because the relationship to LO angle to BC center and the true CG ----seems to force the lead outs to always be aft of the wing tip hole and NOT floating fore and aft in various maneuvers

I am hard pressed to observe ANY condition where the plane...relative to the lines and handle--- over runs the drag ----and causes the Lead Outs to move forward in the smallish LO hole in the wing tip ...

Thus--- I stand by my observation the only critical dimension seems to be a larger enough diameter to NOT create undue drag ---

And IMO, the only thing detrimental with over large Lead OUT guides is being able to find the AFT location that is consistent with the Rake and CG YOU need for a stable flying plane

Hold on a sec... soon Brett, Paul, Tim, and Mark will say I am full of hooey--- and YOU must machine you lead out guides from Titanium Hex stock to a final clearance of .0005 depending on LO diameter

[Steve Bakac]

Hi Ron they are a  black plastic but holes are about 5 mm

Brett n Fred thanks for your advice and explanations
 Cheers Steve

[Keith Renecle]

Hi Steve,

Hope you're well? I asked this very question on this forum and it seems that it does not make much difference, just as Brett explained. I had a box of small eyelets lying around and these were convenient because of the one end being nicely rounded already and saved me from trying to bell out the inner end. I was concerned about the big inside diameter vs the lead-out cable thinner diameter so I started making my own from plastic blocks with just enough play to keep the cable nice and free. I can't say that it made a lot of difference that I can notice at all. I had one older model that flew quite well and after winning one contest out here I noticed that on of the eyelets had popped out of the plywood lead-out guide and was floating on the cable inside the wing. The hole in the plywood was therefore the thing that was left working and I had not noticed the change. Maybe the top pilots in the world would have felt that but mere mortals like most of us, would not be bothered IMHO.

Keith R

[Ron Varnas]

Steve,

Yes they are the same types Windy used to sell, the L/O holes were way too big for my liking never used the one I had.
Fred brings up a lot of good points, I'm weary of the brass eyelets being sold now too, not sure of the manufacturing procedure
of these but take a close look and the metal isn't smooth but shows "grain" as if they have been cold drawn or pressed.
Best L/O guides I recall were Brian Eathers 'delrin' guides, think hard nylon or delrin material is way better than .027" braided line
"micro sawing" thru thin wall brass eyelets over a period of time.

Ron

* Ps hows the Saturn project going ?