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Author Topic: New Plane  (Read 2981 times)

Offline Tim Just

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New Plane
« on: July 09, 2019, 04:58:48 PM »
For your consideration, my first full fuselage BOM compliant offering.

My thanks to Bob Hunt for the beautiful wing and the plethora of construction tech manuals.  Thanks also to Tom Morris for the control system.  My model is a Vector 40 disguised as a Gieskie Nobler.  The  horizontal was changed to a lower aspect ratio, 25% area, 60/40 split with a sharpish leading edge.  The modified tail was inspired from information found on this forum. I tried a version of this tail on my ARF Vector and liked the results.

Things took an ugly turn during the painting process.  As I completed what I thought was the last pass with the paint gun full of clear, the cap came loose.  The model was drenched in clear.  Clear paint went in every direction and neatly flowed around the leading edge. The floor under my paint stand looked like a crime scene with the outline of my wing in the middle. My respirator and the din of the compressor muffled all the words you can’t say on TV.  I foolishly attempted to wipe off the affected areas.  My efforts were rewarded with the clear removing ALL the underlying paint.  The chemical bond was impressive.  Frustrated, I cleaned the gun, turned off the lights and walked away.  A couple of days later I sanded the model and refinished as required. I have heard it said that success is a lousy teacher.  If true, I will expect my Masters in the mail any day.

Overall it has been a very educational and rewarding project.  I am looking forward to final assembly and the first flight soon.


Tim Just

Online Joseph Daly

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Re: New Plane
« Reply #1 on: July 09, 2019, 06:58:58 PM »
Very nice Tim!

Offline Gary Dowler

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Re: New Plane
« Reply #2 on: July 09, 2019, 07:01:31 PM »
For something that underwear such an ordeal, it turned out pretty good!

Gary
Profanity is the crutch of the illiterate mind

Offline wwwarbird

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Re: New Plane
« Reply #3 on: July 09, 2019, 07:37:35 PM »

 Plane looks really great, I like the colors and nice clean looking scheme. Sorry to hear of the trouble with the clear gun but you did an excellent job with the recovery. That unfortunate disaster is a good reminder to all of us to keep a close eye on our equipment as we go.  y1
Narrowly averting disaster since 1964! 

Wayne Willey
Albert Lea, MN U.S.A. IC C/L Aircraft Modeler, Ex AMA member

Online Brett Buck

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Re: New Plane
« Reply #4 on: July 09, 2019, 08:01:34 PM »

Things took an ugly turn during the painting process.  As I completed what I thought was the last pass with the paint gun full of clear, the cap came loose.

  When I was spraying my base coat, I *left the cap off*, and immediately dumped half a cup on the floor. Fortunately it did not get on the airplane.

  Airplane looks great!



     Brett

Online Dave Hull

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Re: New Plane
« Reply #5 on: July 09, 2019, 08:46:37 PM »
Sharp!

Online Ken Culbertson

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Re: New Plane
« Reply #6 on: July 09, 2019, 09:12:48 PM »
For something that underwear such an ordeal, it turned out pretty good!

Gary
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Offline Jim Hoffman

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Re: New Plane
« Reply #7 on: July 09, 2019, 11:28:15 PM »
Tim, it looks great and I know you put a lot of thought into all the important stuff.  My friend Nick Lemak once said that building a stunt ship is simply a series of disasters.  I am pleased at every step I take that avoids said disaster.  When one occurs I just regroup and figure out how to best recover.  Clearly you too have figured that out as well

Offline Bob Hunt

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Re: New Plane
« Reply #8 on: July 10, 2019, 05:04:36 AM »
Very, very nice job, Tim!

Actually Tim called yesterday and we had a long chat about his new plane and many other subjects as well. It turns out that Mr. Just knows a whole lot more about aerobatics than he's letting on in his posts. He was a three-time member of the United States' Aerobatic team! Really there is too much on that subject to report on here, but Google "Tim Just Aerobatic Pilot" and read for yourself (take a look at "images" too...) about Tim's exploits. With this background I predict that Tim will make a meteoric rise in our ranks. Note how clean his first effort is, even considering the obstacles he faced at the last moment in finishing.

Tim is very humble about his past exploits, but maybe we can get him the write a bit here about his full-scale aerobatic adventures and how they might differ or coincide with model aerobatic flight. The stage is yours Tim!   

Bob Hunt

Offline proparc

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Re: New Plane
« Reply #9 on: July 10, 2019, 06:22:12 AM »
Absolutely love the ship. H^^ H^^
Milton "Proparc" Graham

Offline Angelo Smyth

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Re: New Plane
« Reply #10 on: July 10, 2019, 01:20:45 PM »
That's awesome Tim! Hope to see it in person one day!
-A.

Offline Warren Walker

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Re: New Plane
« Reply #11 on: July 11, 2019, 02:56:40 PM »
Looks great Tim, see you tonight.

W.W.

Offline Ted Fancher

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Re: New Plane
« Reply #12 on: July 12, 2019, 10:15:17 PM »
A lovely recovery, Tim.

Ted Fancher

Offline Tim Just

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Re: New Plane
« Reply #13 on: July 15, 2019, 12:17:53 PM »
Thanks everyone for the kind words and encouragement. As Bob Hunt mentioned above, I flew competition aerobatics on a regional, national and sometime international level for a little over 30 years. It might come as a surprise to some that there are more similarities between full size aerobatics and control line stunt than differences. While I have done a whole lot of the former and just a little of the latter, I have found control line stunt fascinating and a great challenge.

My competition aerobatic career started with a rented Super Decathlon. As I moved through the categories, I switched to a Pitts S2-S, Extra 300 and finally an Extra 300s.
Full size aerobatic competition is a wonderful but extremely unforgiving sport.  I have lost five very close friends to aerobatic accidents. In 2017, I was coaching a friend that I had worked with for many years. A competent pilot, just starting to fly in the unlimited category. A fraction of a second of lost concentration resulted in loss of control and ultimately loss of life. Coaching from the ground and holding a radio, I was completely helpless. Nothing in life prepares you for this.

Personally, I have had my share of close calls. FOD induced elevator control failure in the Pitts and a cracked wing spar I found in flight to mention a few. Thankfully I have survived two crashes. The first was many years ago in an Extra 300. It happened the day before I was scheduled to leave for the nationals. An engine failure at the bottom of the aerobatic box (100 meters) left me with few options. The advantage of a low altitude failures is that you barely have time to get scared. In this case the “landing” spot actually picked me. Rolling out on a skinny dirt road, I remember thinking oh ya! A second later the wingtip hit a yucca tree and all hell broke loose. The three-foot drop was dramatic as the gear was ripped from the plane. The Extra fuselage is a steel tube frame covered with sheet metal. I found myself sliding and spinning across the desert at 80 knots or so as the sheet metal was being torn off. The skin acted like scoops allowing the desert to enter the cockpit, quickly reducing the visibility to zero. Getting pelted with sand, sagebrush and rocks at that speed is extremely uncomfortable. I closed my eyes, pulled the stick into my lap and pushed hard on the brakes. Great plan, it might have even worked had the brakes not been torn off with the gear now somewhere behind me. I missed the nationals that year.

I thank God daily for his grace, as I know I have more to do in this life. I also take pleasure with the knowledge that my survival annoys my ex-wife to no end.
 
Physically there is no comparison. Pulling positive 10 g and pushing negative 8 (no exaggeration) hurts a lot and is not that much fun. As I eased into my 50’s Motrin sales spiked every time I showed up at a team practice.
 
Mentally, the two are exactly the same. The concentration and focus required to put together a great flight is enormous. I have found it nearly impossible to simulate the stress of a contest in a practice environment. At one of the team trials I was very distracted by my real life. Eight-time national champion Rob Holland was helping me strap into my airplane.  As I fumbled with the seatbelts he said, "give me all of your problems. I promise I will give them back when you land". True to his word, when I landed the real world was just where I had left it. Rob has a gift for knowing just what to say at exactly the right time.  He arguably will go down in history as the greatest aerobatic pilot of all time, but that’s another story.
 
Here is where I see the biggest differences.  With stunt, the pilot has to build and PAINT the airplane. Some of the full-size pilots I’ve competed with have trouble finding the valve stem on the tire. 
 
Coaching, or being coached is pretty close too. I could go on and on about this topic. I am constantly surprised when I am asked to help someone and then end up having to justify every word. In both disciplines I think it’s important to find someone you trust and simply do what they tell you.

One fun memory that comes to mind happened at the world championships in Italy. The US team hired two-time world aerobatic champion Sergey Rakhmanin to coach the team. His understanding of aerobatics is the best I have ever seen. Sergey ran up to my plane as I taxied in from my first-round flight.  I have never met anyone less impressed with my flying than Sergey. I had a really good flight and was super excited. As he approached, I pulled the mixture and opened the canopy. Uncharacteristically Sergey had a big smile. With his thick Russian accent, he said "Team (he never could pronounce my first name) that is the best I have EVER seen you fly”. At that moment I should have closed the canopy, started the engine and taxied away. His next sentence, "what have you been waiting for?".

 The learning curve is much easier in a manned airplane. In full size it’s pretty straight forward. Find a competent instructor in a good two place airplane. Climb to a safe altitude, just below one of Brett’s satellites is about right and start learning. With stunt the ground is right there. I have a pile of carnage from the last 10 months learning this sport tall enough to be recycled into a windmill blade.
 
Trimming is similar too. While my Extra did not have a tip weight box or adjustable lead outs, it does have spades hanging down from each aileron. The spades are designed to reduce the stick forces. They are also set with a small amount of dihedral to meet roll with side slip certification requirements. Setting up a pair of spades is very time consuming. Getting the spade the right size shape and set at the right incidence angle takes many flights. A wall in my hangar is decorated with a number of shapes that really should have worked. A negative byproduct of the reduced stick force is a loss of centering. To remedy this, I used small lengths of sticky back P strip, AKA weather stripping on the top and bottom of the trailing edge of each aileron. Taping up the hinge gaps also reduces stick force. It’s time consuming to find the right balance. It never failed, do 100 practice flights, all good. Get half way to Texas and a piece of P strip starts to come off. Spinning like a tiny tornado in the breeze, all you can do is hope there’s a Lowe’s aircraft supply close by when you land. The bottom line…the better you make the airplane the easier it is to fly. The easier it is to fly, the better the scores. Seem familiar?

My approach to both sports is the same. Time will tell if the lessons are transferable.
 
1. Try to make every flight better than the last. This is harder than it sounds. I often
practiced with another competitor. We helped each other on every flight.
Every flight we would identify the biggest error or any trends. On the next flight try to
fix that one thing and not lose all the good stuff in the process. Non consistent
errors or one-time mistakes are to be ignored!
 
2. Aerobatics is not a defensive sport. There is nothing I can do with my flying to
influence how another competitor flies.   So, don’t worry about it.
3. Have fun. I’m constantly amazed when I look around at the contest and see how many competitors don’t appear to be having a good time. Watching a good pilot put up a great flight has always been really enjoyable and inspiring to me. Even when they are kicking my butt!
4. Always fly at 100% effort. If you are ON you will enjoy the result. If you are OFF, you don’t deserve it anyway. I flew very conservatively for a while, trying to not make any big mistakes. That philosophy guarantees you a very good viewing position of your buddies standing on the podium.

The most important ingredient and what makes both sports worth the effort are the people you meet along the way. Everyone I have met so far have been amazingly friendly and generous with their knowledge. I could not imagine trying to learn this sport without the support of my lifelong friend and expert modeler, Dave Shadel and my new friends, some of whom I have not met in person yet; Bob Hunt, Fred Underwood, Warren Walker (he can cook too) and Brett Buck.

Tim


Offline Warren Walker

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Re: New Plane
« Reply #14 on: July 15, 2019, 12:45:15 PM »
Tim, so happy to have met you, you are a stand up guy.

W.W.

Offline Bob Hunt

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Re: New Plane
« Reply #15 on: July 16, 2019, 06:29:26 AM »
Whoosh! What a wonderful perspective look at our sport through the eyes of someone who has competed in a similar sport. Tim obviously "gets it" when it comes to bringing all your energies together to peak at the right time. There is so much to the mental game in all sports, and I sometimes think we skip over the lessons learned by others in their particular sports that could help us immensely.

I predict that Tim will come up through the ranks very quickly. He has half the game already. When he fully understands the equipment, and gets enough practice with a coach, he'll add those elements to his understanding of how to compete and be a force in the event. Remember that I predicted this...

Thanks, Tim, for your thoughts.

Bob Hunt       

Offline Bob Whitely

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Re: New Plane
« Reply #16 on: July 16, 2019, 02:41:44 PM »
Tim, Glad to have you as a stunt flyer.  I've got a little time in Pitts' and Extras but couldn't afford the entry fees to really
get good at it. Next time you're around Tucson stop by and we'll fly and BS about everything and anything.  By the way really
nice looking plane!  See ya again sometime...Bob

Offline Shorts,David

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Re: New Plane
« Reply #17 on: July 17, 2019, 10:39:52 AM »

4. Always fly at 100% effort. If you are ON you will enjoy the result. If you are OFF, you don’t deserve it anyway. I flew very conservatively for a while, trying to not make any big mistakes. That philosophy guarantees you a very good viewing position of your buddies standing on the podium.

Tim
[/quote]

That sounds like great advice. I have no intention of following it just yet...hopefully soon.

Offline Tim Wescott

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Re: New Plane
« Reply #18 on: July 17, 2019, 12:24:55 PM »
Hey Tim!  Welcome to the ranks.

I don't know how your abilities are with CLPA yet, but don't get discouraged if you're not an instant expert.  There's a lot of overlap between full scale and model aviation, but the gaps can be big.  I think it's easier with CL than RC, but full-scale pilots can struggle with the transition from inside the cockpit, where the plane always goes the direction you're pushing the stick, to outside, where up can be down and down up and am I inverted and crash oh yea -- that's what I was supposed to do.

(If you're not there yet, the best bit of advise I got, a long time ago, was to think canopy and wheels, not up and down -- because when you're inverted and you want to go up, you'd better be pushing that handle in the "wheels" direction!)
AMA 64232

The problem with electric is that once you get the smoke generator and sound system installed, the plane is too heavy.


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