I Need a 14-6 three blade CF Reverse pitch prop

[Bob Reeves]

Anybody know who might make me a 14-6 three blade reverse pitch carbon fiber prop. Actually I could also use a couple 13-6 three blade reverse pitch props.

Before I switched the Saito in my Latency to reverse rotation I was running a 13-6 CF prop I bought some time ago that MODUSA was selling for the Stalker 60's. It worked really well on the Saito but had to abandon it when I started running the engine in reverse. I have a Saito 72 that we are going to be playing with and thinking that if a 13-6 works on the 56/62 a 14-6 would be great on a 72.

[proparc]

I have a Saito 72 that we are going to be playing with and thinking that if a 13-6 works on the 56/62 a 14-6 would be great on a 72.

Bobs come over to the "dark side" at last.

[Bob Reeves]

Bobs come over to the "dark side" at last.

Not really, ended up with a 72 GK I couldn't turn down (basically free except for new bearings) One of our club members has an RC Ultimate Bipe and we thought it would make a fun combination to play with. I went ahead and ordered a reverse rotation cam, figured while I had it apart might just as well make it run the other way. If I can find a prop, we will let Joe Gilbert fly it's maiden flight and if it doesn't pull him out of the circle I might give it a go just for grins.

I still can't imagine why anyone would need the power a 72 is really capable of in a normal stunt ship. 

[proparc]

I still can't imagine why anyone would need the power a 72 is really capable of in a normal stunt ship. 

Claudio, Paul, Martin, and myself, were all good upstanding citizens prior to getting the 72. But now, I am afraid were all hopelessly and irreversibly corrupted by the "dark forces" hiding inside the big block.

I used to help little old lady's cross the street. But now, the only reason I help them across the street is to try to hit them up for a date. I was recently a member of my local church bingo group. But now, I routinely fly into Vegas, on a private jet with hot stewardesses to play high-stakes poker. I was once quite happy to run scores and help with local Open judging. But now, I constantly dream of taking the F2B Worlds with a one flight stop.

I don’t know if I’ll ever make it back, and I don’t know if I’ll ever want to.

[Claudio Chacon]

Hi Bob,
Did you find the 3b prop to be any better than a 2b in the Saito 62? I'm DYING to try a 3 blade prop in my 72 so I'd love to hear your comments before I purchase one.

Thanks,
Claudio.

[Bob Reeves]

Hi Bob,
Did you find the 3b prop to be any better than a 2b in the Saito 62? I'm DYING to try a 3 blade prop in my 72 so I'd love to hear your comments before I purchase one.

Thanks,
Claudio.

Not really any better but a whole lot easier. I have sitting on my desk 12 JFX 13-6 reverse pitch wood props of which I have by measuring pitch and balance determined I have 3 out of the dozen that I am willing to use. The CF prop was plug and play without worries about it changing or having one blade a different pitch than the other. Even with hand selected wood props, they vary slightly in pitch which will require resetting the choke and needle should I need to replace one. I buzzed a prop at Brodaks last year and luckily was able to get a test flight in with the new prop before the official.

Somebody needs to start making 13 and 14 inch reverse pitch CF props not only for us 4 stroke guys but would imagine the electric guys would be happy to have them also.

[Douglas Ames]

Hi Bob,
Have you checked out ZINGER Props? They have what you need in a pusher as a multi-blade (3) with replaceable blades.

14x6 Pusher 3-blade.  Stock # 3142

A little pricey for the initial investment, but the blades are replaceable.

http://www.zingerpropeller.com/3_bladed_Propeller.htm

[frank williams]

Master Airscrew has a 14x7 pusher and a 12x6 pusher, maybe a 13 also.

[Claudio Chacon]

Not really any better but a whole lot easier. I have sitting on my desk 12 JFX 13-6 reverse pitch wood props of which I have by measuring pitch and balance determined I have 3 out of the dozen that I am willing to use. The CF prop was plug and play without worries about it changing or having one blade a different pitch than the other. Even with hand selected wood props, they vary slightly in pitch which will require resetting the choke and needle should I need to replace one. I buzzed a prop at Brodaks last year and luckily was able to get a test flight in with the new prop before the official.

Somebody needs to start making 13 and 14 inch reverse pitch CF props not only for us 4 stroke guys but would imagine the electric guys would be happy to have them also.

So, other than constant pitch and stiffness (which certainly are not minor improvements) didn't you notice more line tension on overheads, tighter corners or such? You know that large 3B CF props are horribly expensive so are they worth it in this case?

By the way: if you find any "issues" with your Saito .72 GK don't worry and send it to me. I will dispose it "propperly" (the shipping costs goes on me...) 

[Trostle]

Zoar props has a wide variety of props that should fill most needs.

They have  2-blade, 3-blade, IC props, Electric props, wood, and carbon.

Unless you can find a US distributor that has what you are looking for in stock, shipping can get a bit expensive.

They have different "styles" in a wide range of diameters and pitches in 1" increments.

Quality is superb.  Worth a look.

http://www.xoarintl.com/

[Claudio Chacon]

Claudio, Paul, Martin, and myself, were all good upstanding citizens prior to getting the 72. But now, I am afraid were all hopelessly and irreversibly corrupted by the "dark forces" hiding inside the big block.

I used to help little old lady's cross the street. But now, the only reason I help them across the street is to try to hit them up for a date. I was recently a member of my local church bingo group. But now, I routinely fly into Vegas, on a private jet with hot stewardesses to play high-stakes poker. I was once quite happy to run scores and help with local Open judging. But now, I constantly dream of taking the F2B Worlds with a one flight stop.

I don’t know if I’ll ever make it back, and I don’t know if I’ll ever want to.

Milt, you made me LOL with this one! 
I've never seen such a serious defender of four stroke powerplants for CL use. Not only I like your philosophy but I concur with it as well. But an ominous question arise: Why are so few stunt pilots using 4S's around the world???
Are "WE" wrong? Are "THEY" missing something??? Who knows!

Regards,
Claudio.

[proparc]

Why are so few stunt pilots using 4S's around the world???
Are "WE" wrong? Are "THEY" missing something??? Who knows!

Regards,
Claudio.

Well Claudio, I think you’re well aware as to what happens when you start flying the Saito 72. The women and money start rolling in, and this is VERY hard on relationships. A lot of people on this forum have families so, this is not a motor that they can consider running although, I am sure they’d REALLY like to.

[PatRobinson]

Hi Bob,
I did a check on various RC sales sites where I have found out-of-the-ordinary stuff in the past and it looks like a carbon/ re-enforced plastic 14"/6" 3 blade Pusher prop comes very close to being  the ever to be dreaded rare and unavailable "Unobtanium".

Foe example, Zoar has a 3-bladed beechwood props but they all appear to be tractor props. Zoar has matched pairs of pusher and tractor props but they all appear to be 2 bladed props and you have to buy a tractor prop you may not need.

Other brands have a similar lack of not quite being the right combination of diameter, pitch, 3 bladed, pusher and prop materials you are lookin for.

One possibility to consider is to get the Zinger 3 bladed pusher 14/6 prop assembly and have someone like "Eliminator Props" to produce carbon replacement blades. They will all be stronger,lighter and stiffer and more consistent than the wood originals they replace.  Just a thought.

Best of luck in your quest Bob.
                                                            Pat Robinson

[Lauri Malila]

Hi.

 I make 14,2x6" 3-blade props from blades cut by Yuriy Yatsenko. As he makes them with cnc, it's not difficult to reverse the program to make them pushers. Also thanks to cnc technology, his props are most accurate I've seen when it comes to airfoil and pitch accuracy.
The blades come with 6" pitch (2-blade prop for Retro .76) but it's easy to heat & tweak them to the desired pitch, just like carbon ones. I'd say +/-1" changes are possible.
 Well they are not in carbon as you requested, I feel that so big carbon props are too heavy, they cause too much problems with the gyroscopic stuff.
 I like quite thin blades but don't feel that they are too flexible, partially because I impregnate the wood with 2-k polyurethane before finishing.

 Lauri
 

[Lauri Malila]

Here is another picture. To join the blades, I have used dural rings, then Kevlar rings, and the latest series are reinforced with carbon. L

[Claudio Chacon]

Well Claudio, I think you’re well aware as to what happens when you start flying the Saito 72. The women and money start rolling in, and this is VERY hard on relationships. A lot of people on this forum have families so, this is not a motor that they can consider running although, I am sure they’d REALLY like to.

 

[Claudio Chacon]

Hi.

 I make 14,2x6" 3-blade props from blades cut by Yuriy Yatsenko. As he makes them with cnc, it's not difficult to reverse the program to make them pushers. Also thanks to cnc technology, his props are most accurate I've seen when it comes to airfoil and pitch accuracy.
The blades come with 6" pitch (2-blade prop for Retro .76) but it's easy to heat & tweak them to the desired pitch, just like carbon ones. I'd say +/-1" changes are possible.
 Well they are not in carbon as you requested, I feel that so big carbon props are too heavy, they cause too much problems with the gyroscopic stuff.
 I like quite thin blades but don't feel that they are too flexible, partially because I impregnate the wood with 2-k polyurethane before finishing.

 Lauri
 

How much for one of these, Lauri?

[Bob Reeves]

I really appreciate all the suggestions and info everyone has offered.

Here is another picture. To join the blades, I have used dural rings, then Kevlar rings, and the latest series are reinforced with carbon. L

Lauri, you do not have your location in your profile, thoes props sure look like pushers to me. Any chance you would sell me one?

Why are so few stunt pilots using 4S's around the world???
Are "WE" wrong? Are "THEY" missing something??? Who knows!
Regards,
Claudio.

Pretty sure I can answer this, at least for the US. Back when everyone was playing with four strokes they could see the potential but tried to apply two stroke methodology and it simply didn't work. By the time we discovered how to make a four stroke work, electrics were just becoming popular and with the exception of the few of us that really appreciate what a 4 stroke can do, most moved to electric without ever experiencing what a good 4 stroke setup is actually capable of.
 

Hi Bob,
Did you find the 3b prop to be any better than a 2b in the Saito 62? I'm DYING to try a 3 blade prop in my 72 so I'd love to hear your comments before I purchase one.

Thanks,
Claudio.

Claudio, Not sure I can really answer your question as it has been some time since I've flown the Latency with the Carbon 3 blade. I went to wood props because that is all I could find in a reverse pitch that was readily available. Comparing a normal rotating 3 blade with a reverse pitch 2 blade would kinda be like apples to oranges. Running reverse pitch automatically gives you more line tension in the top of the vertical 8 and hourglass, along with the 3rd loop of the clover. The main reason I would like to try a 3 blade on the 72 is because I'm hoping I can use a smaller prop than what I believe the engine will turn using a two blade.

Several have read between the lines on some of the reasons I would prefer carbon to wood, we can make wood work but hard to beat the consistency of carbon and consistency is one of the things that wins contests.

[Lauri Malila]

Claudio,

At the moment I don't have spare ones, please remind me again in autumn, like July/August or so. L

[Claudio Chacon]

Thanks, Bob. I agree with you theory about 4S's versus electrics. It does make sense. Truth is that, in terms of cost-benefit, a four stroke power package is really HARD to beat compared to ANY other power plant you can think of and for us down here in Argentina that is a MAJOR consideration!

Regards,
Claudio.

[Claudio Chacon]

Claudio,

At the moment I don't have spare ones, please remind me again in autumn, like July/August or so. L

OK Lauri. I will.
Thanks,
Claudio.

[Bob Reeves]

Thanks, Bob. I agree with you theory about 4S's versus electrics. It does make sense. Truth is that, in terms of cost-benefit, a four stroke power package is really HARD to beat compared to ANY other power plant you can think of and for us down here in Argentina that is a MAJOR consideration!

Regards,
Claudio.

That is exactly what has motivated me to stay with 4 strokes. When I managed to get booted to Advanced I knew what I was running wouldn't get me into the money flying against piped engines. I looked at the cost of a typical pipe set up, then discovered I could buy good used Saitos all day long for 1/4 what it would cost me for a pipe setup. With a little help from friends I have managed to make my $150.00 Saitos competitive at the top of Advanced against pipes and recently electrics. If I had visions of doing what it takes to get to the top of Expert I wouldn't have any doubts my Saitos and the Latency would get me there.

[Lauri Malila]

Bob,

My location?
Glad you asked, at this very moment I'm in the middle of a frozen lake in Switzerland.

L

[proparc]

Truth is that, in terms of cost-benefit, a four stroke power package is really HARD to beat compared to ANY other power plant you can think of and for us down here in Argentina that is a MAJOR consideration!

Regards,
Claudio.

Claudio,myself and most of the RC world agrees with you. Saito is without doubt, one of the most successful engines lines of all time. Their quality-price-performance matrix has proven to be almost unbeatable.

The other issue is brilliant marketing strategy. Most RC flyers are not competition flyers-they are Sunday flyers. Saito aimed their product line squarely at this market and hit the nail on the head.  

[Bob Reeves]

Claudio,myself and most of the RC world agrees with you. Saito is without doubt, one of the most successful engines lines of all time. Their quality-price-performance matrix has proven to be almost unbeatable.

The other issue is brilliant marketing strategy. Most RC flyers are not competition flyers-they are Sunday flyers. Saito aimed their product line squarely at this market and hit the nail on the head.  

Targeting the Sunday flyer may just be why Saitos work so well in stunt.

What has amazed me is the consistency between engines, even between displacement. I have done the carb mod/setup on everything from the 30 to the 72 and they all respond exactly the same. My final test to be sure I have the timing correct when I install a reverse cam is to put the engine on a test stand and see what the high end RPM is with a test prop.  Kept notes on the engines I've done and they don't vary 50 RPM which is about as accurate as one can get with a tach. I think it's pretty amazing to see that kind of consistency out of any mass produced product.