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General control line discussion => Open Forum => Topic started by: Robert Zambelli on February 04, 2012, 03:41:42 PM
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Here is John's latest - a mini version of Bob Gieseke's Nobler (or Bear), appropriately called the "Cub".
It is approximately 72% of the original, designed around a .15 engine.
Span: 37 1/2 inches
Overall length: 29 7/8 inches
Stabilizer span: 17 1/2 inches
That shown in the photos is the non-flying display/box art version built by John.
The kit is, of course, laser cut with the typical excellent Brodak quality.
I am presently building the first flying prototype, which should be ready to cover in about a week.
If anyone is interested is seeing photos of the one I'm building, please let me know and I will post them.
Bob Z.
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Would love to see photos of your prototype and am definitely interested in owning such a model. Any idea when Brodak will offer this kit to the public?
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If this one comes out in an ARF, I will go for one.
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I'm glad to see this one. John needed another ship for his .15.
I have the plans from Steve Moon, but a kit might be nice!
BIG Bear
RNMM/AMM
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Bill - I'm using Steve's plans for the prototype.
A few small changes had to be made.
Bob Z.
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Bill - I'm using Steve's plans for the prototype.
A few small changes had to be made.
Bob Z.
Hi Bob,
It is kinda a smallish plane for the modern .15s, looking at the plans.
Bill
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It looks like a good choice for my OK Cub 29.
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Very nice!!!
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Nice building John, very interesting, wing area looks right for my .15 diesel engines
how soon can I buy the plan please showing the changes ?
or should I buy the plan from Steve Moon ?
Send me the prototype and I will test it for 3 or 10 years
Vincent y1
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That looks great. John even gave it the same paint job I put
on the original.
Steve
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Hi Robert
I would love photos as you build please,
can you tell what changes to Steve Moons plan please ?
I want to order the plan asap
I have a Parra gold .15 diesel waiting for a stunter
Vincent
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For those who may be interested, I'm finishing up the conversion of Steve Moons hand drawn plans to CAD in a few days. After I've finished, the new plans will be sent to Brodak for final checking. After that, and any changes that may need to be made, John will have the files to laser cut the kits, and make the new plans available for those who wish to scratch build.
This is a very nice little stunter. It's well designed, with proper sizing for the parts. It should be a great small stunter. H^^
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At 78%, the total wing area is in the 278 square inch arena. A little bit on the small side for a 15, but not bad. Should have plenty of punch for power.
Pat Johnston
Skunk Works
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Looks like a fun project.
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Nice to see this. I think we can use more .15 and .25 sized designs. The sizes are less intimidating for newer modelers and they can still be excellent performers for more experienced fliers. Much easier to transport and store as well. Great stepping stones, and hard combinations to beat.
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Hi Bob,
What engine (I assume a Brodak .15) and what size tank?
Thanks
Bill
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Bill - I'm using the Brodak 15 and a 2 1/3 ounce tank. There is room for 2 1/2 ounces.
I had to trim the tank because of the cowl hold-down bracket.
Vince - I suggest making the fuselage 1/16 wider to accomodate the standard width tank that John sells.
The second mod is to suspend the bellcrank between two 1/16 plywood mounts.
Bob Z.
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Thanks, Bob.
BIG Bear
RNMM/AMM
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Thanks Bob Z
the plan is now in the post from Steve
will examine all carefully before hacking balsa
I scratch build my own tanks anyway, 2 1/2 ozs
will be plenty for a 15 diesel, pix eventually
Vincent
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As requested.
Weight as shown is 9.9 ounces.
Bob Z.
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That looks great, a tiny Bear!
Steve
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Orsacchiotto!!!! LL~ LL~ LL~
Bob Z.
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I like the looks and I think this one will have to be slipped into the building order. I have multiple .15s to use and only one other very good .15 size model to build.
BIG Bear
RNMM/AMM
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I'd love to build one ! - Looks cute.
Although I would still find it difficult to put a .15 in it.. >:D
I remember years ago a friend of mine built a Junior Genesis.. It was designed for a .35 sort of size.. scalled down of the full sized .46 job. - This reminds me of that.. Looking good.
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Hi, PJ.
Why would you find it difficult to use a .15?
Too much engine? Not enough?
Bob Z.
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I bet it could be electrified...
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Robert - Your asking why Id find it difficult to put a .15 in it ?
From the mind that brought you a .61 Powered Gieseke Nobler ~>
( I think a .15 or .25 would be ideal - great concept and execution - I just walk to the beat of a different tune )
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Hello from northern Bavaria
dreamin´about "The beautyful red Teddybear", would the OS LA 25 + 10x4 prop a Power-Overkill for this Stunter ?.
Any suggestions ?.
Thanx buddies,
Buddy
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Another great kit in the making - John is sure loading up on designs for the new 15. Of course Brodak has enough electric power systems to make it work too.
I would think that this bird would be great in the new "Stunt 25" event Clint Ormoson & the left coasters are promoting.
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Most interesting suggestions!!!
I think this bird would be a perfect candidate for electric.
I will post some closeup photos of the engine/tank compartment and you can get some ideas about battery fitting.
Regarding use of larger engines, it might just be possible. One issue could be fuel tank size. As designed, around 2 1/2 ounces is all that will fit - that is, with the standard hardwood mounts. Implementing a plastic mount may allow more fuel.
Roughly how much fuel would be needed for, let's say, an OS LA 25?
Anyhow, I'll be back home tomorrow and I will see if I have any 25s that will fit. I do not have an LA but maybe I can dig up some OS FP or S models to try.
Bob Z.
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I have Brodak .25's in which the 2 1/2 ounce load of fuel is too much. I do like the looks of the smaller plane. H^^
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I'm finishing up the CAD drawings for "The Cub". I received permission from John B to slightly scale the size up, as It was a bit small for modern .15s at 289 sq inches.
It now has 338 sq. inches of area, and a span of 40 inches.
The mounts are spaced to fit the Brodak .15, at 1.188" wide.
The tank area is 1.937" wide x 3.466" long.
I personally believe that a Brodak .25 will fit the engine mounts just fine. and the tank, will need to be narrower than normal. likely width that will work 1 7/8" with a maximum length of about 3 1/4"/
Here, for teaser, is the fuselage side view at this time.
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I'm finishing up the CAD drawings for "The Cub". I received permission from John B to slightly scale the size up, as It was a bit small for modern .15s at 289 sq inches.
It now has 338 sq. inches of area, and a span of 40 inches.
The mounts are spaced to fit the Brodak .15, at 1.188" wide.
The tank area is 1.937" wide x 3.466" long.
I personally believe that a Brodak .25 will fit the engine mounts just fine. and the tank, will need to be narrower than normal. likely width that will work 1 7/8" with a maximum length of about 3 1/4"/
Here, for teaser, is the fuselage side view at this time.
Hi John,
I am sincerely hoping to get to work on that little beauty you have drawn up for .15-.25 engines. Complete with build pictures. ;D
Bill
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Good news on that one Bill. Brodak will be offering it as a kit, probably sometime this year. I just sent him a copy of the artwork for the decal. #^
I have a short kit he cut for me to build, and plan on starting it after VSC.
Cheers, and keep getting better my friend. H^^
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Good news on that one Bill. Brodak will be offering it as a kit, probably sometime this year. I just sent him a copy of the artwork for the decal. #^
I have a short kit he cut for me to build, and plan on starting it after VSC.
Cheers, and keep getting better my friend. H^^
Hi John,
That's great news! Will the kit offer the three different size wings? THAT would REALLY be cool!
Having cancer has thrown a monkey wrench in a lot of my plans........ but, this too, shall pass!
Bill
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Hi John,
That's great news! Will the kit offer the three different size wings? THAT would REALLY be cool!
Having cancer has thrown a monkey wrench in a lot of my plans........ but, this too, shall pass!
Bill
Actually the answer is yes, but it doesn't use 3 different wings. The area is altered by changing the rib spacing. H^^
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The (Bear) Cub drawings are finished and sent to Brodak. Here's a small jpeg of the plans so you can see what it's going to look like. Emjoy
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Actually the answer is yes, but it doesn't use 3 different wings. The area is altered by changing the rib spacing. H^^
Hi John,
Yes I know about the rib spacing, that is why I said "size", not different wings. ;D I am definitely building the .15 size. At least for the first one. There might be more!
BIG Bear
RNMM/AMM
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My friend, Ivan , and I are waiting eagerly for a kit each
any news, projected realease date please ?
Vincent
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Heck I think it would be neat to show up at the field with a '96 Bear and a Cub. Both painted the same! ;D
BIG Bear
RNMM/AMM
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This is the Bear Cub I Android interested in.....Vicente
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I like the idea of the small wing because I have several OLD .15's to play with. Namely Fox 15 steel fin.
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But any news re the kit please?
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No that many years ago another kit was supposed to be introduced and I am still waiting on it. I have the plans I got from a person on the forum. It was the "Mo-Best" a design by Larry Cunningham. Just checked and I see the plans are not listed anymore. H^^
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Bringing one back from the dead maybe. Has anybody finished the build on the Cub and flown one? Would love to see more pictures and any other build details that might be out there. What did you settle on for power, .15 or .25?
TIA.
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No that many years ago another kit was supposed to be introduced and I am still waiting on it. I have the plans I got from a person on the forum. It was the "Mo-Best" a design by Larry Cunningham. Just checked and I see the plans are not listed anymore. H^^
Doc,
The "Mo Best" was kitted, as I have one of the kits. It's a great kit and should be a terrific profile stunter. Just right for a LA 46 or Tiger 46.
The kit was done by Mike Griffin and laser cut by Eric at RSM. Might still be available!
Randy Cuberly
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Just when the Cub was (still is) ready to cover, I got sidetracked.
A home remodeling job and some major landscaping stalled the project.
I have three planes to finish and then I will attack the Cub.
The original plan was to use the Brodak 15 but I may try something else.
Photos to follow.
Again, sorry for the delay. :'(
Bob Z.
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Bob Z. we'll let it go this time, but after this all beats are off! ;D
Google still does not bring up much in way of info on the Cub and invariably routes one back to this thread. At first I was leaning toward the matched set of Cub and Brodak .15 for power,..but dimensionally the Brodak 25 is not that much larger in size and mass (or is it?) ..so why not "go big" rather then "stay home"? Steven Yampolsky had asked a question on the Stuka site about "how to make a plane look smaller". The simple answer would be to simply build smaller airframes. Which begs the question: Why do we tend to build larger models? Yeah, I know,..no matter what they say we all know "size matters", right?
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Exactly, that's what she told me. LL~ LL~ Big airplanes are attention getters and some times fly better in some of the conditions we have to fly in. I like the smaller planes as they don't take up so much room. H^^
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Hello, Gents.
I did a bit of tinkering today with the Cub.
The motor mount spacing is just about one inch.
Besides the Brodak 15, I think an FP or LA 15 or an ENYA 15 would be fine.
Any good 15 for that matter.
The Brodak 25 and OS 20 are around .10 inch wider than the mounts and I think that they are just too much power.
Also, the tank compartment is only 3 1/8 inch x 1 1/2 inch
Bob Z.
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Would it take much to fudge the forward fuselage bulkheads to allow for the slightly wider spacing of the 25?..most likely not. That might make room for more fuel tank also. As per PJ Rowland's thinking, can you ever have to much power? Who wants to be the Guinea pig?
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Bob Z. we'll let it go this time, but after this all beats are off! ;D
Google still does not bring up much in way of info on the Cub and invariably routes one back to this thread. At first I was leaning toward the matched set of Cub and Brodak .15 for power,..but dimensionally the Brodak 25 is not that much larger in size and mass (or is it?) ..so why not "go big" rather then "stay home"? Steven Yampolsky had asked a question on the Stuka site about "how to make a plane look smaller". The simple answer would be to simply build smaller airframes. Which begs the question: Why do we tend to build larger models? Yeah, I know,..no matter what they say we all know "size matters", right?
Yeah but in my days of growing up... and old with 1/2As, I came to know that for sport flying, small planes can be huge fun, zinging them around like rockets on a string, li'l demons screaming 20something thousand RPMs leave you smiling after every flight. Real crowd pleasers. Nothing like a Baby Flite streak snapping a surprise outside loop from upright at 20 feet and clipping the flowers off of dandelions. And that's kinda how Bob flies the big ones too, it's a hoot to watch him fly.
Rusty
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Can anybody confirm the spinner size for the Cub? The Brodak site mentions a 1 3/4 inch unit on the "other items needed" list on the kit sales page. Is it just me but that seems large for this somewhat down sized model. The picture of the proto type seems rather small as compared to 1 3/4.
Thanks for any info.
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I designed and built the original Cub. It is quite simply a downsized version of
Bob G's '96 Bear. As was mentioned earlier it was a bit small at about 290 sq in
of wing area. I drew the plans by hand, simply downsizing the original plans;
which I had also drawn.
I powered the original with an OS 15 and it is a hoot to fly. I never flew it competitively,
just took it out for fun occasionally. If I remember correctly, I used a 1.5" spinner.
But, as Bob Z mentioned the kit version has been slightly upsized. I have a kit,
but it is in storage with ALL my stuff until my new house is completed, so I can't
get to it for awhile to take a look. I do remember checking it out when I got it, and
it is fantastic; as all of John's kits are. Nice laser cutting, excellent plans, detailed
instruction manual, quality wood, etc!
Steve
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Thanks Steve,
Nice to hear good things about the kit. So the .15 (or a .15) is enough motor..cool. Got a pair of them on the way. Any plans to bring back a kit of the big one? I missed out on the UHP offering.
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So Tony, can I expect to see you at the Banfield this year? Should try to drag Steve over if he is in town....
John
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John,
Can't make any promises but it's possible. I never seem to find enough time to do everything I want to, or need to, do. I've been much less active for more than a few years now, but I lurk on the c/l sites everyday and continue to stock pile c/l hardware and kits. I do have a Top Flight ARF "Tutor II" with G-51 in flyable condition at the moment. I've flown maybe 6 times in the last two years,..both times at my sons school for a flight demo's which tied into his teachers science/technology program module. The school kids of the digital age and the teacher were rather amazed at the "model on a string" demo.
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Any updates, Mr Z?
HNY,
Chris Behm
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I don't remember if he's ever brought it out to fly. I'll ask him to toss it in the Ferrari next time we hit the field. We'll get pictures to document it.
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I'd love to build one ! - Looks cute.
Although I would still find it difficult to put a .15 in it.. >:D
Watch....someone will try to find a way to shove a PA 75 in it ;D
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I'm finishing up the CAD drawings for "The Cub". I received permission from John B to slightly scale the size up, as It was a bit small for modern .15s at 289 sq inches.
It now has 338 sq. inches of area, and a span of 40 inches.
Hey John: Opened my Cub kit today and measuring span off the plan it is 37". Even though Brodak's website and label on kit box indicates span is 40" ??
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Also, the tank compartment is only 3 1/8 inch x 1 1/2 inch
Bob Z.
Oh, that would be more than enough for my .77..
PJ, wink-wink :)
L
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Does anyone here think that the Fox 15 steelfin would be enough power? How about the early Fox .19 with the 3 bolt backplate.
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I have one on the building table aswell. Anyone with a finished one out there?
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I have one on the building table aswell. Anyone with a finished one out there?
NICE ;D what engine you are going for Sirrr ?.
Please MORE PICS.
Thanx
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I just started yesterday, dont have that many pics yet. I am going to use an OS .15 LA-S
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Robert,
Hoping you'll notice this post since the thread died back in 2016.
How did it fly? What engine did you use? Line length? Final weight?
Thanks,
Joe Ed Pederson
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I believe it was underpowered and he had to put a Covid .19 in it.
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I believe it was underpowered and he had to put a Covid .19 in it.
I just found one of those engines under my bench. It’s pretty powerful!
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Did anyone ever finish and fly a Cub from the kit design? Was a custom tank needed? It sounds from this string like a lot of screwing around with the design was done with no solutions.
The basic concept is outstanding. It would be a shame to see it be kitted as a useless abortion.
What standard tank and engine fit?
What prop and lines work?
THis could be a killer machine if it has been done right.