New model Enya 35 plane engine available

[Steve Thomas]

The ringed version of the SS35 is very happy in a wet 2-cycle with something like a 10.5x4.5, so I’d expect this one to be pretty similar.

[Dave_Trible]

Oh I hope not...

Dave

[Rusty]

How much does this thing cost?

[Colin McRae]

It looks like it may just get warm enough (low 50's) for the next few days so that I may get to the flying field and if so I will get a chance to get mine on the test stand.    I've been asked what I think the manner of this engine will be, ie,  4-2 runner or 2 cycle screamer.    I should know after a couple break-in runs.   Somehow I just think it will operate more like it predecessor 5224 but we'll see.

Dave

One item to note (hopefully minor)

On my engine, when I turn in the needle all the way in (not forcing it), it bottoms out on the threads. Not really sure if the needle itself is fully closed at the same point in the spray bar.

In any event, for a 'reference point' on an APC 9-5 sport prop, 1.5 turns on the needle put the engine in a nice wet 2-cycle. I know the engine is not loaded much on the 9-5 and with a 10 or 11" prop it will be opened up some.

The owner's manual suggests 3 turns on the needle. I couldn't get it to start very well cuz way to rich. After understanding the issue and closing the needle a bit at a time it settled in nicely at 1.5 turns.

BTW, I was running 10% nitro and 20% oil (68% syn/32% castor)

[Colin McRae]

How much does this thing cost?

The Control Line Store (eBay) is selling for $190 + shipping,

[Dave_Trible]

One item to note (hopefully minor)

On my engine, when I turn in the needle all the way in (not forcing it), it bottoms out on the threads. Not really sure if the needle itself is fully closed at the same point in the spray bar.

In any event, for a 'reference point' on an APC 9-5 sport prop, 1.5 turns on the needle put the engine in a nice wet 2-cycle. I know the engine is not loaded much on the 9-5 and with a 10 or 11" prop it will be opened up some.

The owner's manual suggests 3 turns on the needle. I couldn't get it to start very well cuz way to rich. After understanding the issue and closing the needle a bit at a time it settled in nicely at 1.5 turns.

BTW, I was running 10% nitro and 20% oil (68% syn/32% castor)

Thanks for the forewarning.   Sounds like the needle might not shutting off the fuel supply entirely when closed.   It doesn't have to as long as it needles within the full range of running.    If anything it shows the intake passage is plenty adequate.   I had an issue a few years ago with some spray bars that simply wouldn't let enough fuel pass with the needle almost about to fall out to let anything larger than a .40 draw enough fuel to break into a four cycle.   The fuel mixes I have already made up to try first are 2 1/2/ 25 all castor which the older Enyas and Mercos are fond of and the 7 1/2 or 10 / 22 50/50 castor/ techno plate I run in the pipe motors.   I'll see what these do to start.   Have to remember to go bring the fuel jugs in from the car to warm up.   The engines don't care for super cold fuel,   guessing the viscosity is pretty thick.  I also have a Enya .61 CXLRS I need to get break in time on- the airplane I'm building for it is nearing finishing stage.   Sure be nice to get some handle time.   I last had any flying weather just after Thanksgiving.  The forecast is showing maybe two or three days where just maybe...if the winds aren't too bad.   Hope the snow is melted off the circle .
Do I sound eager?

Dave

[Colin McRae]

   I'll see what these do to start.   Have to remember to go bring the fuel jugs in from the car to warm up.   The engines don't care for super cold fuel,   guessing the viscosity is pretty thick.

Dave

Not to rub it in but it is 60 F and sunny here today in the San Francisco Bay area. It really doesn't get much colder.

I still fly at least once a week. I plan to fly tomorrow and also get some more bench run time on the Enya 35. Then mount in in my Nobler for a few test flights, maybe next week. I'm excited to see how the Enya 35 performs compared to my OS 40 LA.

[Rusty]

Has anyone compared the performance between the 1970s 5224  Enya 35 and this engine?  I am using some of the 1970s 35s now and I don't see how it could get any better.  It has good 4 2 4 break. 

[Dave_Trible]

Has anyone compared the performance between the 1970s 5224  Enya 35 and this engine?  I am using some of the 1970s 35s now and I don't see how it could get any better.  It has good 4 2 4 break.

To my knowledge-no.   That is what we will be working to find out shortly.   I might get some bench runs today though tomorrow looks better here weather-wise.  As far as putting it in the air,  that is a stretch down the road for me since I don't have a suitable airplane for it yet.   The new one doesn't fit the same mounts as the 5224.   It is smaller and lighter.   I would like to put it in a full fuselage airplane.   I don't think profile mounting would be a fair test or comparison.   Others may beat me to the punch on flight tests.

Dave

[realSteveSmith]

...I would like to put it in a full fuselage airplane.   I don't think profile mounting would be a fair test or comparison....

Dave, could you elaborate on this for us new-ish guys?  Why is this the case?

[Gerald Arana]

Dave, could you elaborate on this for us new-ish guys?  Why is this the case?

It's the thingie that the crankshaft rotates in.

Yer welcome, Jerry

[realSteveSmith]

It's the thingie that the crankshaft rotates in.

Yer welcome, Jerry

I'm not sure what you're talking about....perhaps you misunderstood my question....or maybe there's a joke in there that I'm not getting???  I was asking Dave Trible why he didn't consider a profile fuse model as a good test of this engine.

[Dave_Trible]

Dave, could you elaborate on this for us new-ish guys?  Why is this the case?

Hi Steve-NOT the original SteveSmith.   There are two things involved (at least).   First if you are looking at how a STUNT motor functions, ie, how it cycles up and down and how evenly inside and outside it's fuel flow orientation matters.   An engine like this would most typically be used in a Classic vintage full fuselage airplane or perhaps just a modern but smallish competitive airplane and we'd want to know how it operates in this scenario.  A logical understanding of this might be the Fox .35 burp.   It doesn't happen on upright or inverted mounted installations generally.  It's a demon associated mostly with profiles with each fuel charge being slung through an oversized fuel passage and delivered directly onto the glow plug by centrifugal force in addition to it's normal function.   
The other thing is vibration.   Profiles are just prone to vibrate more and foam the fuel to some degree more than a full fuselage airplane.   If you have an engine like so many modern engines that can produce great power but are timed only to run in a 2 cycle mode with any consistency then fuel foaming is far less noticeable since the engine is largely hiding the issue running near full-tilt anyway-and COULD be in a different harmonic with regards to fuel foaming .   These can work out fine for profiles applications but to me,  are less desirable for competitive stunting since there is little head room for any power boost when you point the nose up with the airplane.   These will inevitably slow down a bunch in maneuvers where there is no reserve power to reach for yet accelerate in a hurry on the down leg where there is also no real braking to be had.   The difference can be dramatic.   A few years ago we had an airplane we tried various engines on.   It served most of it's life with an OS FP .40 on it and served well.   We put an Enya .45 on it.  With the SAME level lap time we could finish the pattern almost a full minute sooner with the 4-2 run of the Enya vs the FP.  The difference was how much the airplane slowed in the maneuvers.  Once I went back to the FP on the airplane I didn't like to fly it anymore since the difference affected my timing and rhythm through the whole pattern in negative ways.  I found myself waiting on the airplane to get from A to B in a maneuver and I know the speed variations had to figure into maneuver shapes as well.

Hope my thoughts helped

Dave

[realSteveSmith]

Hi Steve-NOT the original SteveSmith.   There are two things involved (at least).   First if you are looking at how a STUNT motor functions, ie, how it cycles up and down and how evenly inside and outside it's fuel flow orientation matters.   An engine like this would most typically be used in a Classic vintage full fuselage airplane or perhaps just a modern but smallish competitive airplane and we'd want to know how it operates in this scenario.  A logical understanding of this might be the Fox .35 burp.   It doesn't happen on upright or inverted mounted installations generally.  It's a demon associated mostly with profiles with each fuel charge being slung through an oversized fuel passage and delivered directly onto the glow plug by centrifugal force in addition to it's normal function.   
The other thing is vibration.   Profiles are just prone to vibrate more and foam the fuel to some degree more than a full fuselage airplane.   If you have an engine like so many modern engines that can produce great power but are timed only to run in a 2 cycle mode with any consistency then fuel foaming is far less noticeable since the engine is largely hiding the issue running near full-tilt anyway-and COULD be in a different harmonic with regards to fuel foaming .   These can work out fine for profiles applications but to me,  are less desirable for competitive stunting since there is little head room for any power boost when you point the nose up with the airplane.   These will inevitably slow down a bunch in maneuvers where there is no reserve power to reach for yet accelerate in a hurry on the down leg where there is also no real braking to be had.   The difference can be dramatic.   A few years ago we had an airplane we tried various engines on.   It served most of it's life with an OS FP .40 on it and served well.   We put an Enya .45 on it.  With the SAME level lap time we could finish the pattern almost a full minute sooner with the 4-2 run of the Enya vs the FP.  The difference was how much the airplane slowed in the maneuvers.  Once I went back to the FP on the airplane I didn't like to fly it anymore since the difference affected my timing and rhythm through the whole pattern in negative ways.  I found myself waiting on the airplane to get from A to B in a maneuver and I know the speed variations had to figure into maneuver shapes as well.

Hope my thoughts helped

Dave

I get it now...Thank you!

[BOB ALLAN]

Has anyone compared the performance between the 1970s 5224  Enya 35 and this engine?  I am using some of the 1970s 35s now and I don't see how it could get any better.  It has good 4 2 4 break.

(The following excerpt from Flying Models magazine, August 1966. Author Jack Sheeks)

“The “Demon” is a little on the large side, with a 57” wingspan and an all-up weight of 57 ounces. I originally installed a Fox 40 (old type) but I recently acquired a new Enya 35 III (Model 5224). We have tested just about every engine capable of pulling a stunt ship, and before we run a new engine, we always tear it down and remove any burrs or irregularities in the casting. However, this Enya was as clean as a whistle. The fit on the piston and sleeve was as close to perfect as you could ask for, with a beautiful casting too. Very seldom do you find a new engine this clean. Instead of hand lapping the engine in as usual, we decided to run it in, mainly to see if it would seize up, and how long it would take it to break in. We used Fox Superfuel and a 10-6 Top Flite prop for all the testing. Much to our surprise the engine didn’t seize up on any of the runs. We started out by running the engine at a fast four cycle for the first five runs. Then we stepped it up to a two-cycle for a continued run of 10 minutes. By this time we could feel and hear the engine picking up more power. As you know the engine comes with three venturi plugs, numbered one, two, and three. Number one is recommended for stunt or sport flying. Number two is an intermediate deal, a little more power but very controllable. Number three plug is for rat-racing, combat or speed. It also comes with a pressure fitting and a high compression head. We used the low compression head and the number two venturi plug, without pressure. After our initial break in period, we decided to see how it reacted in the air. Out came dear old “wife trainer” for test purposes. The more we flew it the better it ran, it is a good engine, and capable of doing anything we wanted. It was decided to try it out in my pride the “Demon.” This took a little conversion, as the shaft on the Enya is a little longer than that of the (Fox) 40. It was worth the effort because it pulled the 57 ounce airframe all over the sky. I like this potent powerplant very much, and I have another ship under construction now that was designed especially for the Enya. If it works out as well as we plan, you may see it at the Nats this year.

[Colin McRae]

I had a chance this morning to get in more bench time on my new ABC-BB spec Enya SS35 EXs. I now have about an hour or so on the bench.

I don't own any other Enya engines so can't speak to how this one differs from past Enya's (performance wise). The owner's manual does say that the exhaust port shape has been redesigned. It also says that 10-6 to 11-4 props are suitable. And the engine will perform best with a prop that produces 11k-13k on the ground. This implies to me that the power sweet spot is around 12k. (Enya engineers, not me!)

For the initial 30 minutes or so on the bench, I ran an APC 9-5 sport and kept it on the rich side (wet 2-cycle, definitely 2-cycle, but slightly breaking back and forth to 4 cycle). My fuel was Powermaster 10% nitro, 20% oil (68% syn/32% castor). I also ran an APC 10-4 and a XOAR 11-4.

A few numbers for reference (in each case below, I set the needle to the same wet 2-cycle, so it was on the rich side):

APC 9-5 Sport      12,500 rpm

APC 10-4 Sport    11,500 rpm

XOAR 11-4 wood  10,500 pm

In all cases no indication of any overheating. (Could actually touch the head soon after shutdown. Not too hot to the touch.)

And when momentarily pinching the fuel line, went to fast 2-cycle, then immediately back to where it was.

Next, I plan to put it on my Nobler to see how it does in the air.

[Dave_Trible]

Just a brief follow up.   Today I really enjoyed a day at the field in nice flying weather even with some snow still on the field from the blizzard a couple weeks ago.   I got a chance to put the .35 SS and the .61 R on the test stand.    The .35 started on the first back flip and yeah real spitty rich at three turns open.   I was still in a solid four cycle with less than two turns.   However the needle was not at all sensitive and showed a nice tame range.  In fact I'd call the engine itself very friendly and rather tame.   I ran it on my 'pipe' fuel  10/22  50/50 blend.   I rolled the stand back a couple times and the engine responds well with a gentle break into a 2 cycle.   I put a 10-5 prop on.   It will go through a full slow paced break in but my initial impression is that this one will serve well as a 4-2 style runner of typical .35 power but is happy on more modern fuel mixes.  I will proceed with the idea of running this on standard 10-5 or 10-6 wood props and launch R's in the 9800-10000 range.   If I had to liken it it to something you might be familiar with I'd say the OS .35S  isn't too far off.   This is ball bearing and of much better design and construction though.  It is still in the same size and weight class.   I'm satisfied so far-money well spent.
The .61 R Enya rear exhaust pipe motor is quite impressive.   Smooth as silk and obviously a powerhouse.   It will go in my newest ship which is at the covering/finishing stage.  If for any reason I am not happy with it all the RO Jetts are a near perfect drop in fit.  I will just need to shave the mounts a bit and re-locate the needle valve hole.  This engine isn't a brand new offering.  In fact they haven't been made in a few years.   I don't think many were made and it was generally not seen or ignored.   I didn't know of it until it was not available anymore from Enya.   I sort of wish it wasn't a ringed engine but I have a spare ring and could get more for now.   Strangely to me the side exhaust version is NOT a ringed motor.   I don't know if these parts are interchangeable between the two engines.

Dave

[Dave_Trible]

How much does this thing cost?

Ours was ordered directly from Enya on line and was about $50 cheaper that way.

Dave

[Bill Hummel]

Thanks, Dave, for the update. 

[Dan McEntee]

Just a brief follow up.   Today I really enjoyed a day at the field in nice flying weather even with some snow still on the field from the blizzard a couple weeks ago.   I got a chance to put the .35 SS and the .61 R on the test stand.    The .35 started on the first back flip and yeah real spitty rich at three turns open.   I was still in a solid four cycle with less than two turns.   However the needle was not at all sensitive and showed a nice tame range.  In fact I'd call the engine itself very friendly and rather tame.   I ran it on my 'pipe' fuel  10/22  50/50 blend.   I rolled the stand back a couple times and the engine responds well with a gentle break into a 2 cycle.   I put a 10-5 prop on.   It will go through a full slow paced break in but my initial impression is that this one will serve well as a 4-2 style runner of typical .35 power but is happy on more modern fuel mixes.  I will proceed with the idea of running this on standard 10-5 or 10-6 wood props and launch R's in the 9800-10000 range.   If I had to liken it it to something you might be familiar with I'd say the OS .35S  isn't too far off.   This is ball bearing and of much better design and construction though.  It is still in the same size and weight class.   I'm satisfied so far-money well spent.
The .61 R Enya rear exhaust pipe motor is quite impressive.   Smooth as silk and obviously a powerhouse.   It will go in my newest ship which is at the covering/finishing stage.  If for any reason I am not happy with it all the RO Jetts are a near perfect drop in fit.  I will just need to shave the mounts a bit and re-locate the needle valve hole.  This engine isn't a brand new offering.  In fact they haven't been made in a few years.   I don't think many were made and it was generally not seen or ignored.   I didn't know of it until it was not available anymore from Enya.   I sort of wish it wasn't a ringed engine but I have a spare ring and could get more for now.   Strangely to me the side exhaust version is NOT a ringed motor.   I don't know if these parts are interchangeable between the two engines.

Dave

      Dave;
     Have you taken the needle all the way out of the spray bar? What does it look like?  Does it have a sharp point or is it blunt? The last generation of OS needle valves that were sold  have a relatively short taper and are kind of blunt compared to the original FP needles. That made adjusting needles a bit finicky. I have been taking those and chucking  them up in a drill and work them to a longer taper with a sharper point. If the existing needles give you what you need then just go with them. The first Enya produced to OS spec needle valves that shttrman had made were like that also. They work but sometimes give you the one click too rich or too lean syndrome.
    Type at you later,
     Dan McEntee
   

[Dave_Trible]

Dan when I first the needle in the other day I poked myself with it.   Pretty sharp.    This is the standard type with the clicker.   Sometimes these can be frustrating if you feel it needs to be set 'in-between' clicks because the needle is so sensitive.   This one didn't seem that way.  The only place it seemed a little touchy is at the place where it is deciding whether to break or not.   Many are that way.   In most respects this one seems pretty tame.  It doesn't want to jump out and bite you at the start like many other Schnerle engines.   I had some OS .32s and Thunder Tiger 36 that acted like a hungry alligator on start up.   This one is different and so far I like it.   I don't think it's a super powerhouse.   Don't compare it to a .40 or .46.  It IS very adequate for most of the normal Classic type airplanes,  plus it's small and reasonably light for a BB motor.    The muffler isn't too outsized either.  Again this looks to share the same case as the .25 and .30ss.

Dave

[Dan McEntee]

Dan when I first the needle in the other day I poked myself with it.   Pretty sharp.    This is the standard type with the clicker.   Sometimes these can be frustrating if you feel it needs to be set 'in-between' clicks because the needle is so sensitive.   This one didn't seem that way.  The only place it seemed a little touchy is at the place where it is deciding whether to break or not.   Many are that way.   In most respects this one seems pretty tame.  It doesn't want to jump out and bite you at the start like many other Schnerle engines.   I had some OS .32s and Thunder Tiger 36 that acted like a hungry alligator on start up.   This one is different and so far I like it.   I don't think it's a super powerhouse.   Don't compare it to a .40 or .46.  It IS very adequate for most of the normal Classic type airplanes,  plus it's small and reasonably light for a BB motor.    The muffler isn't too outsized either.  Again this looks to share the same case as the .25 and .30ss.

Dave

    Give the needle the old "breath-a-lyzer" test!! Hook up a length of clean fuel line to it., and while blowing through the fuel line, close the needle and feel if it ever completely shuts off. That way you will know in case you ever do get into a situation where you need to close it. I was working on an engine for a friend  one time and it was like you describe, really soupy rich even when the needle stopped. I can't remember what kind of engine, may have even been a OK of some flavor. I was able to take the needle out, clamped it in a vice by the stem, and then tapped the knurled knob with a hammer and could see it move a tiny bit. Another whack with the hammer and drift punch and I tried it again and this time I have a full range needle.
  Type at you later,
    Dan McEntee

[Colin McRae]

      Dave;
     Have you taken the needle all the way out of the spray bar? What does it look like?  Does it have a sharp point or is it blunt?
 

The stock needle is sharp pointed.

[Colin McRae]

I will proceed with the idea of running this on standard 10-5 or 10-6 wood props and launch R's in the 9800-10000 range.   
 

You probably already know this but just in case, and a suggestion.

Based on my bench run data on an APC Sport 10-4 prop, the engine was easily doing 11,500 rpm in a wet 2-cycle. Not sure how rich the engine will be if run at 9,800-10,000 on a 10-5 or 10-6. But being an ABC design the engine needs to run so it is at proper operating temperature for the cylinder design. If 'too' rich and not allowed to operate at its design temperature, damage may result. The Enya manual specifically says to run the engine in a 11-13k range and always 'slightly' rich which seems to me to be in line with an ABC-BB design for an engine of this size.

[Gerald Arana]

I'm not sure what you're talking about....perhaps you misunderstood my question....or maybe there's a joke in there that I'm not getting???  I was asking Dave Trible why he didn't consider a profile fuse model as a good test of this engine.

Hi Steve,

Yes, it was a joke!    I thought you ment "crankcase" my bad.

Jerry

[Dave_Trible]

Engine manufactures have always shown data regarding their engine's maximum attainable output using various props.  To some it's a selling point.  To me (IMHO) it's worthless info.  In the past I would read Peter Chinn's engine tests where after a long discussion about materials and workmanship they show a list of such maximum out rpm findings and I'd ask myself-so what?  That doesn't tell me where the best usable power output on the rpm scale occurs and,  once again being used for aerobatics, not speed or racing.    If I run the engine at or near maximum rpm for normal level flight I have not left any headroom for the engine to accelerate a power boost when I need it during a maneuver.   Rather It will likely go overlean and perhaps overheat with the possibility of run-away. Part of 'stunt cycling' I'll call it is also temperature changes up and down.    Perhaps when at full boost it might indeed get to 13000 or something but it will cool and return to something quite a bit less in level flight.   In some cases with tuned pipe motor applications some make the choice to run near the top and use the pipe simply to have a braking affect on the down leg.   Others like myself setup the unit to run on the lower rpm scale with more pitch so I get a more traditional power boost AND get some braking on the backside.   With this non-piped .35 running at near peak you don't get the benefit of either.  You probably can run it the way you want to and be satisfied with it-that's perfectly fine.   I just believe you will wear the engine much faster and be giving up some possible benefits.   So much of this depends on your specific application and what you expect of the engine/  airplane performance.

Dave

[Colin McRae]

Engine manufactures have always shown data regarding their engine's maximum attainable output using various props.  To some it's a selling point.  To me (IMHO) it's worthless info.  In the past I would read Peter Chinn's engine tests where after a long discussion about materials and workmanship they show a list of such maximum out rpm findings and I'd ask myself-so what?  That doesn't tell me where the best usable power output on the rpm scale occurs and,  once again being used for aerobatics, not speed or racing.    If I run the engine at or near maximum rpm for normal level flight I have not left any headroom for the engine to accelerate a power boost when I need it during a maneuver.   Rather It will likely go overlean and perhaps overheat with the possibility of run-away. Part of 'stunt cycling' I'll call it is also temperature changes up and down.    Perhaps when at full boost it might indeed get to 13000 or something but it will cool and return to something quite a bit less in level flight.   In some cases with tuned pipe motor applications some make the choice to run near the top and use the pipe simply to have a braking affect on the down leg.   Others like myself setup the unit to run on the lower rpm scale with more pitch so I get a more traditional power boost AND get some braking on the backside.   With this non-piped .35 running at near peak you don't get the benefit of either.  You probably can run it the way you want to and be satisfied with it-that's perfectly fine.   I just believe you will wear the engine much faster and be giving up some possible benefits.   So much of this depends on your specific application and what you expect of the engine/  airplane performance.

Dave

I was not implying to run the engine at near peak in level flight and never would for a typical stunt application for an engine of this type. A wet 2-cycle (definitely 2-cycle rich but monetarily breaking into brief 4) is nowhere near peak rpm.

[realSteveSmith]

Could someone confirm the actual metallurgy used in the SS 35 EXS piston & liner.  It is quoted as being ABC which usually means the liner can be seen as brass, looking in the exhaust. This new 35 has a shiny liner denoting either an aluminum one (AAC) or possibly a chrome plated steel one (unlikely) like Enya used in a couple of their early 1960's engines. Another explanation is, they have chrome plated the outside of the liner as well as the inside. Just wondering........?

In the spirit of get while the gettin' is good, I now have 2 of these engines to call my own.  Although I've been buying model engines for over 45 years, these are the first Enya 2 stroke engines that I've owned.  That being said, I had to take a look inside to see what was what.  I'm impressed with the quality....and although we always considered the Enya stuff a bit 'light duty' in the RC world, I can see how this architecture (2 piece case, no back plate) can be just what the Dr. ordered for a stunt model.

Although I can't  confirm the metallurgy in any scientific manor, I can report that the sleeve in the engine I disassembled was not magnetic.  It also struck me as being too heavy to be plated aluminum.  In retrospect, I could have attempted some scratches on the outside of the sleeve to see how hard it was....but it didn't occur to me at the time.  My best guess...this is a brass sleeve that is chromed plated, inside and out.

Now...somebody hurry up and fly one and tell us all about it. 

[Colin McRae]

Now...somebody hurry up and fly one and tell us all about it.

The weather finally cleared here in the San Francisco Bay area this morning and I was able to get in a few flights with the new Enya SS 35 CX ABC-BB engine. I have it mounted on a Nobler ARF (cylinder down).

Some stats:

-Fuel: 10% nitro / 20% total oil (68% syn/32% castor)

-About an hour or so of bench run time prior to today's flying

-Enya 4 plug

-APC 10-5 sport prop (I tried a few different props (APC 10-4 and MAS 10.5-4) but the APC 10-5 seemed best of the 3 I tried.) Good power and good lap speed on the 10-5.

-Model weight 43 oz

-62 ft long Spectra 80# test lines

-I set the needle for a rich 2-cycle. Ground rpm approx 10,900-11,000 on the APC 10-5 sport prop.

-Clunk tank set up for uniflow and I ran muffler pressure. With muffler pressure, needle was right at 1 full turn to achieve the above ground rpm.

-Ambient temperature was probably around 50-55F

Once in the air, the Enya pulled the Nobler quite well and was rock solid during maneuvers. I normally wear ear plugs when I fly, and I did not notice much of a break in maneuvers. Engine speed was pretty constant at least audibly. And absolutely no indication of the engine going too lean in maneuvers. In reality there was probably a mild 2-2-2 going on.

These were just a few test flights, so I filled the 4 oz tank only 1/2 way. So, I don't have any good data on fuel efficiency for the full pattern (Plus I can't do the full pattern anyway at this stage of my CL career)

All in all, the engine ran great IMO and is well suited for 'Nobler size' model.  I was not pushing the engine hard so it would probably also pull a larger model fine.

I also run a couple of OS 40 LA models. It appears to me that the new Enya 35 roughly has the same power output as a 40 LA while being about 2 ounces lighter.

[Dan McEntee]

 Looks like a pretty good test session. If you are confident enough that the engine starts, runs and stays running in the different attitudes, start filling the tank and see what you get no matter if you can do the full pattern or not You are looking for a consistent run time between 6:60 and 7 minutes to do the pattern. Sounds like you were probably in the low 5 second range for lap time? you will need to know this and I think the sooner the better, and will help finish building run in time on the engine. Starting with a full tank sometimes can affect the rest of the run and you might as well find that out at this point also. With what you have so far, and going to full tank flights, you are at the point where just flying the airplane repeatedly will really tell you what you have. If it's better than what you had in the Nobler before, I wouldn't take it out unless you absolutely have to. keep flying it, build up time and confidence. And work on the rest of the pattern.
  Type at you later,
  Dan McEntee

[Colin McRae]

If it's better than what you had in the Nobler before, I wouldn't take it out unless you absolutely have to.

The new Enya 35 seems much better than the OS 40 LA I originally had in the Nobler ARF. Good power and my model went from 49 oz to 43 oz. My Nobler was given to me and was pretty beat up, but flyable. Another pattern trainer for me. I have a NIB Nobler ARF that I will build in the near future, and I will definitely set it up around the new Enya 35.

One other cautionary (safety) note from my experience yesterday. The Enya 35 compression ratio must be pretty high. With the engine cold I was priming and dry flipping for the next start attempt and there was some mild popping randomly occurring which seemed to me like the fuel was trying to detonate on compression alone (without power to the plug). The engine didn't actually start, but it made me a bit nervous. So, I was more careful around the prop during priming and dry flipping. And I was using 10% nitro fuel.

So just be careful !!

[Colin McRae]

There is one downside to the new Enya SS 35 CX engine. For those who might want to use a spinner, the Enya shaft is not long enough. With a conventional APC 10-5 sport prop, the Dubro spinner I have does not allow enough thread engagement for the prop nut. I tried a different spinner with a narrower backplate and it still would not work.

I also tried a Brodak BYO wood prop and it did work as it has a very narrow hub area. I'm not sure about other wood props. But APC and MAS don't work.

It just goes to show that sometimes very little engineering goes into the toys we have.

I'll just have to fly the Enya 35 without a spinner. On the plus side, a little weight is saved. 

[Dave_Trible]

There is one downside to the new Enya SS 35 CX engine. For those who might want to use a spinner, the Enya shaft is not long enough. With a conventional APC 10-5 sport prop, the Dubro spinner I have does not allow enough thread engagement for the prop nut. I tried a different spinner with a narrower backplate and it still would not work.

I also tried a Brodak BYO wood prop and it did work as it has a very narrow hub area. I'm not sure about other wood props. But APC and MAS don't work.

It just goes to show that sometimes very little engineering goes into the toys we have.

I'll just have to fly the Enya 35 without a spinner. On the plus side, a little weight is saved. 

Lee Machine Shop has or can make a prop nut that reaches into the prop hub and fix that,   pretty much like the old Veco and Fox extension shafts but without the extension.   I have a couple and they do the job.   There are a couple older engines that are like that as well.

Dave

[Dan McEntee]

There is one downside to the new Enya SS 35 CX engine. For those who might want to use a spinner, the Enya shaft is not long enough. With a conventional APC 10-5 sport prop, the Dubro spinner I have does not allow enough thread engagement for the prop nut. I tried a different spinner with a narrower backplate and it still would not work.

I also tried a Brodak BYO wood prop and it did work as it has a very narrow hub area. I'm not sure about other wood props. But APC and MAS don't work.

It just goes to show that sometimes very little engineering goes into the toys we have.

I'll just have to fly the Enya 35 without a spinner. On the plus side, a little weight is saved. 

    The plastic spinners all have back plates that are too thick. Many engines have a shaft length problem like you are seeing especially if you are using 5 and 6 inch pitch. Higher pitch numbers always mean thicker prop hubs. That's what was handy about Tru-Turn and Great Planes aluminum spinners. The prop adapter had a shoulder and used a tightly fitted washer so the end of the nut would go right up against the face of the prop. A nut like Dave mentions would let you counter bore the hub in front a bit to let it grab more threads, and leave enough behind it to center up correctly on the shaft. It's not too difficult to ensure that you get all 1/4" of thread into the nut, which is what you should be doing.
  Type at you later,
   Dan McEntee

[Ara Dedekian]

        Got a new-in-box Enya 35CX C/L in a trade from an RC modeler who wants to revisit C/L. I think it's a Shtterman engine. I traded him some Busters and Ringmasters and a lot of my time to get him back in the air with a handle in his hand.

        Given all the above info, I put it in a Jetco Dolphin to replace a worn OS 35 FP. The only trim option I had was to put in about 2-3 degrees of offset as the leadouts are non-adjustable and there's no tip weight box. It will be flown on Spectra lines with a 12/5 prop to start out. It's a hand-me-down as 95% of my C/L planes were built by others and I'll have to hope for the best. I'm basically a sport flyer and spend most of my energy on rubber scale builds.

        Hoping I'll have it at Brodaks for the Classic event.

        Ara

       

[Colin McRae]

It will be flown on Spectra lines with a 12/5 prop to start out.

       

A bit of caution. A 12-5 prop might be a bit much for the new Enya 35. The owner's manual suggests 10-6 to 11-4 props. My Enya 35 is on a Nobler (43 oz) spinning an APC sport 10-5 prop.  And I'm running 10 nitro / 20% oil.

[Dave_Trible]

A bit of caution. A 12-5 prop might be a bit much for the new Enya 35. The owner's manual suggests 10-6 to 11-4 props. My Enya 35 is on a Nobler (43 oz) spinning an APC sport 10-5 prop.  And I'm running 10 nitro / 20% oil.

+1.

Dave

[Colin McRae]

Given all the above info, I put it in a Jetco Dolphin to replace a worn OS 35 FP.

       

You might also want to check the model CG location trim compared to the OS 35 FP. The new Enya with its stock muffler is quite light being that it is designed around an Enya 25 size case plus lighter materials used. I had an OS 40 LA with stock muffler on my Nobler and with the new Enya 35 I was able to remove a bunch of tail lead to maintain the CG location. My Nobler went from 49 oz to 43 oz with the Enya 35.

[Ara Dedekian]

    Colin, Dave,

         Thanks for the help, much appreciated.  I'll have to wait; the lousy weather here in Maine just won't let up. It's too cold to even begin the break in out in the garage.


   Ara

[Colin McRae]

Just an update and a few notes on my recent experience in-flight with the new Enya SS 35 EX ABC-BB.

Nobler ARF (43 oz)
4 oz clunk tank
62' Spectra 80# test lines
APC 10-4 sport prop
10% nitro / 20% oil (70/30 syn/castor)
Muffler pressure used
A full hour of break-in time on my test stand
5-6 tanks in the air prior to today's flying session

On this fuel and prop I have been running right at 11,500 rpm on the ground to obtain my target 5.2 sec lap time. Engine is in a definite 2-2-2 and pulls the Nobler ARF fine. No sign of engine overheating or going lean in maneuvers.

A couple of observations:

Needle is set at approx 3/4 turns (11,500 ground rpm). Not sure what this really implies as the threads bottom out, so not sure if thread bottom out is actually full closed on the needle. Probably not. In any event, the engine rpm is easily adjustable on the ground. The owner's manual mentions 3 turns on the needle to start. NO WAY! Would be extremely rich and may possibly damage the engine not allowing the ABC engine to run hot enough. (I recall in my test stand that I could not even get it started at 3 turns.)

On a full 4 oz tank the engine run time was a few seconds under 8 minutes (engine start to engine quit). So 3-3.5 oz should get thru the full pattern.

I'd be very interested in others in-flight experience with this new Enya 35 engine as a comparison.

[Martin Quartim]

Just an update and a few notes on my recent experience in-flight with the new Enya SS 35 EX ABC-BB.

Nobler ARF (43 oz)
4 oz clunk tank
62' Spectra 80# test lines
APC 10-4 sport prop
10% nitro / 20% oil (70/30 syn/castor)
Muffler pressure used
A full hour of break-in time on my test stand
5-6 tanks in the air prior to today's flying session

On this fuel and prop I have been running right at 11,500 rpm on the ground to obtain my target 5.2 sec lap time. Engine is in a definite 2-2-2 and pulls the Nobler ARF fine. No sign of engine overheating or going lean in maneuvers.

A couple of observations:

Needle is set at approx 3/4 turns (11,500 ground rpm). Not sure what this really implies as the threads bottom out, so not sure if thread bottom out is actually full closed on the needle. Probably not. In any event, the engine rpm is easily adjustable on the ground. The owner's manual mentions 3 turns on the needle to start. NO WAY! Would be extremely rich and may possibly damage the engine not allowing the ABC engine to run hot enough. (I recall in my test stand that I could not even get it started at 3 turns.)

On a full 4 oz tank the engine run time was a few seconds under 8 minutes (engine start to engine quit). So 3-3.5 oz should get thru the full pattern.

I'd be very interested in others in-flight experience with this new Enya 35 engine as a comparison.

Hi Collin,

Have you tried other props like APC 10.5x4.5 and 10x5   seems the launch rpm is way too high. I get the best results with the Enya SS30 from 9.800 to 10.500 rpms.  With the Enya SS30 I had a much better result with an APC 10.5x4.5 than with the APC 10x4. 

APC 10.5x4.5 also worked very well  with Enya SS25  in a Reduced Pathfinder with 530sq wing.

Good Luck,

Martin

[Colin McRae]

Hi Collin,

Have you tried other props like APC 10.5x4.5 and 10x5   seems the launch rpm is way too high. I get the best results with the Enya SS30 from 9.800 to 10.500 rpms.  With the Enya SS30 I had a much better result with an APC 10.5x4.5 than with the APC 10x4. 

APC 10.5x4.5 also worked very well  with Enya SS25  in a Reduced Pathfinder with 530sq wing.

Good Luck,

Martin

Thx Martin

I do have those props and will try them and reduce launch rpm as a comparison.

The Enya owner's manual does say to pick a prop that provides 11,000-13,000 on the ground which is interesting. From what I'm seeing the engine seems quite happy at 11,500. But I will try the props you mention next time I am out with my Nobler.

The manual also says the piston weight has been reduced and the exhaust port shape redesigned. So, it may perform differently than past similar size SS models.

The manual also mentions 3 different venturi ID sizes. 6.5, 7 and 7.5 mm. The effective throat areas with 4mm spray bar end up being:

6.5mm    0.0139 sqin
7mm       0.0188 sqin
7.5mm    0.0242 sqin

The stock engine came with the 7 mm ID venturi which seems about right for a stunt application.

[Ara Dedekian]

Just an update and a few notes on my recent experience in-flight with the new Enya SS 35 EX ABC-BB.


Needle is set at approx 3/4 turns (11,500 ground rpm). Not sure what this really implies as the threads bottom out, so not sure if thread bottom out is actually full closed on the needle.

On a full 4 oz tank the engine run time was a few seconds under 8 minutes (engine start to engine quit). So 3-3.5 oz should get thru the full pattern.

I'd be very interested in others in-flight experience with this new Enya 35 engine as a comparison.

      Colin,

         I'm having the same problems with my needle valve. Flight setting was about 1/2 turn out. It put me in the mind of my Fox 35's where I had to wind the needle out about 7-9 turns to start and then wind it back in for running. I learned from the 'Hangar that the situation existed in the Fox spraybar, because the running setting of the needle was very close to bottoming out. It couldn't draw fuel at the closed setting. So being a wise guy, I thought to run a finger drill down to the Enya seat to deepen it about .010 or .015 thousandths, except that there was no room to do that. I ruined the spraybar to where it wouldn't close off.

        I didn't want a stock replacement since they seem to have that fault so I replaced it with a spraybar from my Enya 29, #5224 (square venturi). It fit perfectly and starts and runs on about 1-1/2 to 2 turns. Adjustments to the RPM is broader than with the stock assembly. So far I've only run the replaced spraybar on the stand using both the 35 EX and '29 needles. No difference.

        The above was the easy part, the real problem is with my 4 oz. tank. I'm getting 5 1/2 minutes air time with 5% fuel, 22% lube, 10/5 prop. Not enough time to fly the Dolphin in the Classic event. The venturi bore is .156". I'm getting plenty of power with that diameter; will putting an insert to step it down increase air time?

         After Brodak, I'll try to get a Supertiger spraybar assembly installed for even broader adjustments.

         Ara

[Colin McRae]

      Colin,

         I'm having the same problems with my needle valve. Flight setting was about 1/2 turn out. It put me in the mind of my Fox 35's where I had to wind the needle out about 7-9 turns to start and then wind it back in for running. I learned from the 'Hangar that the situation existed in the Fox spraybar, because the running setting of the needle was very close to bottoming out. It couldn't draw fuel at the closed setting. So being a wise guy, I thought to run a finger drill down to the Enya seat to deepen it about .010 or .015 thousandths, except that there was no room to do that. I ruined the spraybar to where it wouldn't close off.

        I didn't want a stock replacement since they seem to have that fault so I replaced it with a spraybar from my Enya 29, #5224 (square venturi). It fit perfectly and starts and runs on about 1-1/2 to 2 turns. Adjustments to the RPM is broader than with the stock assembly. So far I've only run the replaced spraybar on the stand using both the 35 EX and '29 needles. No difference.

        The above was the easy part, the real problem is with my 4 oz. tank. I'm getting 5 1/2 minutes air time with 5% fuel, 22% lube, 10/5 prop. Not enough time to fly the Dolphin in the Classic event. The venturi bore is .156". I'm getting plenty of power with that diameter; will putting an insert to step it down increase air time?

         After Brodak, I'll try to get a Supertiger spraybar assembly installed for even broader adjustments.

         Ara

Ara

I'm not necessarily saying I'm having a problem with the stock NVA, it is just an observation. If a needle bottoms out on the threads and not closing off the fuel, but the engine fuel flow is still settable that is OK. On 10 nitro / 20% oil and APC 10-4 sport prop (and muffler pressure) I'm getting 11,500 rpm on the ground and it pulls the 43 oz Nobler ARF well. No sign of overheating or going lean in maneuvers. One thing to note. If muffler pressure is used the needle will be farther closed compared to an open vent. So, this is contributing to what I'm seeing on my needle setting. I typically run muffler pressure and uniflow tanks on my models, even on Fox and McCoy 35's as I get more consistent engine runs.

5.5 minutes on your 4 oz tank run does not correlate to what I am seeing. What ground rpm are you running on the 10-5 prop? I filled my 4 oz tank with 2 ounces (since they were test flights) and the engine ran for close to 4 minutes (at above conditions and fuel). Yours has to be running way to rich to consume that amount of fuel. This is an ABC engine and running 'too' rich and not at a good operating temperature might damage the engine.

The engine came with a 7 mm venturi and 4mm spray bar that offers a 0.0188 sqin effective area which seems about right for a stunt application. I also have an Enya 6.5 mm venturi that I might try. It will produce a smaller effective area of 0.0139 sqin (approx 25% reduction).

Your stated venturi bore (0.156") is only 4 mm. The stock spray bar is 4mm. This also doesn't make sense unless it might be a sprinkler type venturi. (Did you mean 0.256" vs 0.156"?)

The engine is also designed for 20% oil.

Colin

[Dave_Trible]

      Colin,

         I'm having the same problems with my needle valve. Flight setting was about 1/2 turn out. It put me in the mind of my Fox 35's where I had to wind the needle out about 7-9 turns to start and then wind it back in for running. I learned from the 'Hangar that the situation existed in the Fox spraybar, because the running setting of the needle was very close to bottoming out. It couldn't draw fuel at the closed setting. So being a wise guy, I thought to run a finger drill down to the Enya seat to deepen it about .010 or .015 thousandths, except that there was no room to do that. I ruined the spraybar to where it wouldn't close off.

        I didn't want a stock replacement since they seem to have that fault so I replaced it with a spraybar from my Enya 29, #5224 (square venturi). It fit perfectly and starts and runs on about 1-1/2 to 2 turns. Adjustments to the RPM is broader than with the stock assembly. So far I've only run the replaced spraybar on the stand using both the 35 EX and '29 needles. No difference.

        The above was the easy part, the real problem is with my 4 oz. tank. I'm getting 5 1/2 minutes air time with 5% fuel, 22% lube, 10/5 prop. Not enough time to fly the Dolphin in the Classic event. The venturi bore is .156". I'm getting plenty of power with that diameter; will putting an insert to step it down increase air time?

         After Brodak, I'll try to get a Supertiger spraybar assembly installed for even broader adjustments.

         Ara

Ara I'm real surprised to hear about the fuel consumption.   I've only run mine on the stand so far and so haven't really paid any attention to that.   The classic .35  will do the pattern on 4 ounces with the smaller or medium venturi and 'stunt' head installed.   If you are actually burning fuel at that rate it must be really producing power.   Yes,  if you decrease the venturi size it will extend the run time AND cut power output some.   Decreasing nitro will do about the same thing.   These Enyas will run on no-nitro.   You might cut your nitro to 2 1/2% and see how that goes.    That what we have done with Mercos and it works well.   It also runs well in OS 35S.   Takes a little of the 'wild' out of them.

Dave

[Ara Dedekian]

 One thing to note. If muffler pressure is used the needle will be farther closed compared to an open vent.

     Colin,

       Thanks for bringing that to my attention. I flew it today without muffler pressure, Same 5%nitro 22%oil as before but with the Enya 29 spraybar and increased flight time from 5-1.2 minutes to 7 minutes. Takeoff RPM according to my highly unreliable tach was 9,475 with unloading in the to air to about 10,250(??). I had plenty of power with good line tension.

       Also, I think the engine needs more breaking in; it's an Enya!

   
     Ara