New kit

[Gary Dowler]

Picked up an original Sig Akromaster kit off eBay yesterday. $42 shipped. Been sitting on a little .15 that's in need of a home, thought "why not "? 

Gary

[GERALD WIMMER]

Hello Another great value kit from Sig! What 15 have you got lined up?
Regards Gerald

[Gary Dowler]

Gerald, way back in the dark ages of the 1970's (about 1978 to be exact) I was a fairly new flier and had become all excited over seeing a more experienced guy fly an Akromaster.  Having no experience beyond 1/2A's myself, this "big" airplane really got me going.  I managed to scrape together the money for a suitable engine, a then brand new, 1st generation, Thunder Tiger 15, for this airplane that I never ended up buying.  So I sat on this motor.  Eventually I cut out a 1x4 to make a test stand for it and tried to just play around with running it.  Wouldn't start.

 As time went on I acquired other planes, a Ringmaster and a big 500+sq in stunt bird that was built from plans found at the library of all places, and flew the daylights out of these for years.  The 15 still sat. Every now and then I would dig it out and try to start it again. Different glow plugs, different fuels, didn't matter. The dang thing never once did more than burp no matter what I tried.  I probably flipped that prop 1000 times over the years. Nothing. Eventually by the early 90's I stopped flying.

Two years ago I decided it was time to fly again.  Started a Shoestring Stunter kit that I still had. While building that I dug out my engines to try running them. Everything still worked.  Then I found the old TT 15.  The thing that never started.   To this day I have no idea what changed, or what I did differently, but I got the dang thing to start!!  I was blown away!  It now has several bench runs on it, after 40 years of collecting dust.  Now it seems the time is right for that Akromaster I longed for in '78. 

[GERALD WIMMER]

Hello Gary
Good to hear an old plan is coming together for you and the TT gets a home and turns out to be a good runner.
Have a similar story with the Akromaster as me and my brother brought them in the early 80's to learn the pattern but went with Al Rabe's Mustunt design instead.
The kits waited many years and my brother assembled mine last year in the hope that my sons would use it for the original purpose.
Seen many of them flying over the years and like the Aeromodeller 15 size Peacemaker it is one of those timeless models that was very impressive 'big' model when coming from an 049's so many like me seemed to have started with.
Still have a soft spot for those smaller models we would take on our push bikes to the flying field and some of those sweet little engines like the Enya 09, 15, 19 , OS 15 Mkii and IV and Fox 15X (and PAW 09 and 19 diesels for the smell and challenge) which I still enjoy flying them now on a multitude of small models partly out of nostalgia but mostly just for fun. (pic of me and my sons Airsail Showmans with OS 15s similar to the Thunder Tiger 15j
too 
Regards Gerald

[john e. holliday]

That is what I guess has kind of kept me going with model planes.   Nothing like my first Green Head K&B Torpedo .35 that I thought would never run.  he old McCoy 35 Red head was getting worn out.   Glad to hear you finally got that 15 running and I wait for the report of the flights.   Now for me after the this past week end is to go out and fly for just the fun of it.   Have broken two planes getting ready for up coming contest.  At way I was a little upset at myself after the last crash and I looked around to see who was going to kick my behind as I was not having fun or happy.   Muttered a few words to myself.

[Gary Dowler]

Well the Akromaster arrived today. Doesn't look like an original Sig kit, just looks too new. Does Brodak mark their kits in any way?
Interesting aspects of it are a complete absence of any wing covering, though it does have a folded quantity of simple paper.  The cloth hinge material consists of a single piece of material that's about .9"x3". Wood is a mixture of somewhat light to somewhat heavy.
This is an unopened box still in sealed plastic wrap.

Gary

[GERALD WIMMER]

Hello Gary The last Sig Twister I got had updates like a sheet of brown paper and no tissue and the same strip hinge material but wood quality still seems good enough .
In the past more parts were pre-cut like the canopy and tail feathers but if it is to be 'kit bashed' this is a good point as reshaping should be easier . Brodak kits use their own hardware and include detailed instructions normally .
Regards Gerald

[Brett Buck]

Well the Akromaster arrived today. Doesn't look like an original Sig kit, just looks too new. Does Brodak mark their kits in any way?
Interesting aspects of it are a complete absence of any wing covering, though it does have a folded quantity of simple paper.  The cloth hinge material consists of a single piece of material that's about .9"x3". Wood is a mixture of somewhat light to somewhat heavy.
This is an unopened box still in sealed plastic wrap.

    That's pretty disappointing. The one Akromaster kit I have seen looked pretty much like any kit of the 70's, all parts die-cut except for the strip-wood, variable quality wood, about 2x the amount of silkspan you need (two full sheets, I think) and typical cloth (linen?) hinge material, usual hardware.

    Doesn't sound like an original SIG kit, certainly not from the Glenn/Hazel/Maxey era, at least.

    Brett

[Dennis Adamisin]

Well the Akromaster arrived today. Doesn't look like an original Sig kit, just looks too new. Does Brodak mark their kits in any way?
Interesting aspects of it are a complete absence of any wing covering, though it does have a folded quantity of simple paper.  The cloth hinge material consists of a single piece of material that's about .9"x3". Wood is a mixture of somewhat light to somewhat heavy.
This is an unopened box still in sealed plastic wrap.

Gary

Brodak has no association with Sig.  Absence of silkspan likely reflects the fact that it is no longer being made and the world supply vanished.

[Tim Thompson]

Hello Gary
Good to hear an old plan is coming together for you and the TT gets a home and turns out to be a good runner.
Have a similar story with the Akromaster as me and my brother brought them in the early 80's to learn the pattern but went with Al Rabe's Mustunt design instead.
The kits waited many years and my brother assembled mine last year in the hope that my sons would use it for the original purpose.
Seen many of them flying over the years and like the Aeromodeller 15 size Peacemaker it is one of those timeless models that was very impressive 'big' model when coming from an 049's so many like me seemed to have started with.
Still have a soft spot for those smaller models we would take on our push bikes to the flying field and some of those sweet little engines like the Enya 09, 15, 19 , OS 15 Mkii and IV and Fox 15X (and PAW 09 and 19 diesels for the smell and challenge) which I still enjoy flying them now on a multitude of small models partly out of nostalgia but mostly just for fun. (pic of me and my sons Airsail Showmans with OS 15s similar to the Thunder Tiger 15j
too 
Regards Gerald

Forgive me for my ignorance, but what are Airsail  Showmans? The pictures look Kool. But I can't find a search function that displays anymore than your pictures

Thanks.   Tim

[kevin king]

Brodak has no association with Sig.  Absence of silkspan likely reflects the fact that it is no longer being made and the world supply vanished.

I JUST TOLD MY LOCAL HOBBY SHOP TO ORDER SILKSPAN IN FROM SIG, AND I USED IT TO COVER MY SPITFIRE FUSE. SIG HAS IT IN STOCK.

[Joe Ed Pederson]

I recently bought Light (OO) silkspan from Sig and Medium Silkspan from Brodak.    I needed the medium to patch a 1960's Carl Goldberg Cosmic wind and wanted the light silkspan to cover the fuselage and tail feathers of my next project: a 1970's Top Flite Tutor kit.

Joe Ed Pederson
AMA 103434

[Tim Wescott]

Well the Akromaster arrived today. Doesn't look like an original Sig kit, just looks too new. Does Brodak mark their kits in any way?
Interesting aspects of it are a complete absence of any wing covering, though it does have a folded quantity of simple paper.  The cloth hinge material consists of a single piece of material that's about .9"x3". Wood is a mixture of somewhat light to somewhat heavy.
This is an unopened box still in sealed plastic wrap.

Gary

Brodak brands their kits.  Sig is still selling Akromaster kits -- does it say "Sig" on it anywhere?  They have distinctive branding on their boxes.

The Twister kit that I built had very uneven wood quality -- some heavy, some light, some ribs with the grain running at a pretty severe angle up through the rib, so that there was only about 3/4" of grain in a 3/32" rib.  I'm not sure about the covering -- maybe they got some paper-ish looking silkspan in?

Or, the seller repackaged an Akromaster kit and didn't understand that silkspan isn't plain old paper.

Send a picture of the box?

[Gary Dowler]

It definitely says Sig on the box. Guess I wasn't sure if there wasn't some connection these days between Sig and Brodak.   I'll post a pic in a minute.


Gary

[john e. holliday]

I think when John was getting started in the business he may have stocked some SIG kits.

[Gary Dowler]

Just got off the phone with Sig. I was informed that they no longer include wing covering with their kits, and haven't for several years.  Have to order its separately.

And now I know.

Gary

[Joe Ed Pederson]

I just checked the Sig website.  The Akromaster kit is in stock, and $27.95 plus their standard $9.95 shipping and handling on orders less than $150.00. 
I just ordered and received from Sig the little Sig Skyray 1/2A CL last week.  it only cost $16 or $17.95. It came promptly.  I'm building the Skyray for my grandkids.  The wood for the wing of the Skyray was just right, the fuselage just right, but the tail must have been at least 18lb density so I'm replacing the tail wood with 9lb density wood.  All die cutting of the fuselage, tail, leadout guide, and plywood bellcrank platform and motor mount was very good.  They leave it to you to cut out the wing.

The price on Sig CL kits is much lower if you order them from Sig direct, than buying them through Brodak.  I don't know about Hobby Shops, if you still have one.  My thanks to Sig for hanging with us and providing such great value.

Joe Ed Pederson

[rich gorrill]

Gary, be careful when building the wing! Leading edge has to be cut to fit, it is very easy to cut it in the wrong place, I know because I thought I was smarter than 30 yr. old directions. I think the trailing edge also has to be cut to match. It comes with wing jig pieces, mine were die crunched, had to fab new ones.
good luck, Akro is a fine little model. Don't cover the wing til it is installed in the fuselage, flaps have to be glued on after wing is installed.

Rich

[GERALD WIMMER]

Forgive me for my ignorance, but what are Airsail  Showmans? The pictures look Kool. But I can't find a search function that displays anymore than your pictures

Thanks.   Tim

Hello Tim The Airsail Showman was a neat little control line model that suited a 09 to 19 that was made in New Zealand till last year.    

At least the Akromaster is still available and great value and Ebay usually has it at a very good price with reasonable shipping.
Where I live you could never buy the materials for the price Sig sells its kits, making them a very attractive option for a quick and cheap build. 

Regards Gerald

[Tim Thompson]

Thanks for the reply. No wonder I couldn't find it.  They sure look Kool!

[Mat Waites]

I am in the middle of an Akromaster build. When the instructions say:

"the bellcrank bolt should rest on the lower wing spar"

Do they really mean "you should cut off the bellcrank bolt just beyond the nut and wad of epoxy. That raw
end of the bellcrank bolt should rest on the lower wing spar"?

Thanks

[Steve Helmick]

It definitely says Sig on the box. Guess I wasn't sure if there wasn't some connection these days between Sig and Brodak.   I'll post a pic in a minute.


Gary

Well, looky there! It's already flying inverted....  Steve

[Dave Hull]

Mat,

I think what the instructions mean is that in step 4 you bolt the bellcrank onto the platform. Then in step 6, you position the platform by sliding it between the ribs and in contact with the lower spar--and push it forward until the bellcrank bolt hits the back surface of the lower spar. At least, that is the best sense I can make of it while reading the plans. The small isometric view didn't help much either.

My copy of the instructions actually says "The bellcrank bolt should be directly on the spar."

No way do you want the bellcrank platform elevated above the spar with nothing but the ribs holding it in. The first pull test would pull it right out. Similarly, do not drill or notch the spar.

Could have been written more clearly, for sure.

Dave

PS--Looking forward to building my Akro one of these days. Still picking the engine and hardware....

[Dan McEntee]

    A typical embellishment for the Akromaster is to NOT cut the leading edge, trailing edge, and spar stock to indicated length. Space the ribs wider, or cut new ones if needed, to gain some extra wing area. Keep the center section spacing the same so that your sheeting stock is sufficient. Build it straight, spend some extra time sanding as you go. Don't get too hung up on balsa quality and density on these kits, including the Twister and Banshee. They are light enough in structure that they will still fly well. My Twister/Shark was built from a standard Twister kit, and I did the Fancher mods  to it, and made the wing a D-tube by trimming the ribs down to allow for 1/16" sheeting and cap strips. All kit wood was used. The ribs stock was so hard I had to use a band saw to trim the edges and sand them down! And with all the added balsa to get the ouline shapes I wanted and the inboard tripler on the nose, the weight was still only in the high 40 ounce range. It has qalways and still does fly well. I would use a three inch bell crank if they don't include one, and as far as flaps go, for a sport/beginner stunt model, keep it simple and leave them out. If the model is powered adequately and balanced correctly, it will still turn nicely.
   Good luck and have fun,
     Dan McEntee

[Mat Waites]

Mat,

I think what the instructions mean is that in step 4 you bolt the bellcrank onto the platform. Then in step 6, you position the platform by sliding it between the ribs and in contact with the lower spar--and push it forward until the bellcrank bolt hits the back surface of the lower spar. At least, that is the best sense I can make of it while reading the plans. The small isometric view didn't help much either.

My copy of the instructions actually says "The bellcrank bolt should be directly on the spar."

Could have been written more clearly, for sure.
Dave

Well, I ended up doing what I hinted towards - I cut the bolt off just beyond the epoxy that I had put on the nut. then I ended up with that cut end of the
bolt resting on the lower spar. This "seems right" because the ply platform is now contacting 2 ribs and contacting the leading edge - just beneath the
reinforcing ply strip that reinforces the joining of the 2 leading edge pieces.

SO, three edges of the ply platform are fully glued to something. Perhaps I can add another layer of ply to connect the platform to the lower spar....

- Mat

[Ken Culbertson]

The ribs stock was so hard I had to use a band saw to trim the edges and sand them down!

I was just about to start a thread on this issue but it looks like you have already encountered it.  I am building a Twister that has ribs that are perhaps cut from Maple or Oak.  I was going to add about 20sq by spacing the ribs a bit.  What you imply is that it may not be necessary.  What concerns me is raising the aspect ratio.  It is going to come out in the 40's which I think is a bit heavy for a plane that small.  FYI - it is Fancherized.

Ken

[Dave Hull]

Mat,
I take it that your bellcrank platform is not glued to the spar? If so, may I suggest gluing in a filler piece between them to tie the spar to the platform? This would make the biggest improvement in strength.

You might even want to do a trial pull test before you plank the top of the wing to convince yourself that it is going to withstand flight loads.

Dave

[Mat Waites]

Mat,
I take it that your bellcrank platform is not glued to the spar? If so, may I suggest gluing in a filler piece between them to tie the spar to the platform? This would make the biggest improvement in strength.

You might even want to do a trial pull test before you plank the top of the wing to convince yourself that it is going to withstand flight loads.

Dave

That is the kind of input I'm looking for - I don't understand how you could possible have the bolt on the spar and also have the ply glued to the spar.
(unless you flip the bolt upside down from how the picture shows it.)

I will cut some blocks or strips of ply and glue the platform to the spar.

Thanks -Mat

[MikeyPratt]

It definitely says Sig on the box. Guess I wasn't sure if there wasn't some connection these days between Sig and Brodak.   I'll post a pic in a minute.


Gary

Hi Gary,
I think that kit is one of the First 500 kits when they were first released.  Good flying littlemodel.

Mikey 

[Dan McEntee]

I was just about to start a thread on this issue but it looks like you have already encountered it.  I am building a Twister that has ribs that are perhaps cut from Maple or Oak.  I was going to add about 20sq by spacing the ribs a bit.  What you imply is that it may not be necessary.  What concerns me is raising the aspect ratio.  It is going to come out in the 40's which I think is a bit heavy for a plane that small.  FYI - it is Fancherized.

Ken

  The Twister, and the Akromaster also, are quite resilient designs. I had a desire to build a control line prifile scale/stunt model of the real crop duster painted up like the movie character "Dusty Crophopper" from the movie "planes. I saw an article in Flying Models magazine for a profile stunt Cessna Ag-Cat by Larry Kruse, I think it was, and that ignited the idea. It was based on a Twister wing. I changed up the outlines to what I wanted, and to give it more of the look of the real airplane with it's high aspect ratio wing, I added an extra rib bay to each wing. I stretched the fuse a little bit and added a cheek block to the iunboard nose and added to the stab and elevator as needed. I made the flaps pretty narrow as far as stunt stylings go, to better look like the real ailerons and flaps on the full size airplane. All of this came up to a finished model that weighed close to 50 ounces. I wasn't trying to make it a world beater stunter, just something to fly scale with by mounting a small box with the throttle electronics in it to control the stock LA.40 carb. When flying pure profile stunt, the box and carb come off, and a venturi and needle valve go on. If flies quite well and carries the extra weight with no problem. I scored well with it, 517 I think it was, at the one contest I flew it in profile stunt so far. So again, no real need to get all hung up on weight and balsa quality. It's far more worth while to built any airplane straight and true and get it balanced properly so trimming will go easier. The kit manufacturers can't check each piece of balsa that goes into their kits. The smaller cottage industry guys can and do, but the quality is reflected in the price. The SIG Banshee,  Twister, Akromaster, Chipmunk, and Skyray .35 are as good as any other kitted model that is mass produced. It all just depends on how it is built, finished and flown.
  Type at you later,
   Dan McEntee

[Joe Ed Pederson]

An RC friend of mine bought a box of CL stuff from someone and in the box was a steel fin Fox .15.  The previous owner had kept it oiled and it has good compression.   Being a cheepskate I immediately thought of the Sig Akromaster because it's only $27.95 from Sig.    I needed to buy some balsa from Sig for one of my winter projects anyway (two Ted Fancher Medics), so I ordered the Akromaster kit.  They asked me if I could wait on my order for a few days since they were going to make a production run of the Akromaster kits at then end of the week. 

Anyway, it all came last week and the box looks exactly like the one pictured above in Mikey Pratt's post.  The wood was good to excellent.  The elevators are a beautiful C grain, but the horizontal stab is A grain and a little warped, so I'll replace the horizontal stab with some nice C grain.  They are now lazer cutting the fuselage blank and the plywood nose doublers.  The airfoil on the ply nose doublers will have to be cut back since it doesn't match the fuselage cut out for the wing.  I was surprised the kit didn't have any lead-out wires, but the box does list lead out wires in the things you'll need.  I plan on color dope on the fuselage and tail and clear dope only on the wing.


I should have reread this thread before starting on the leading edge and trailing edge.  I cut the wrong ends off.


Five Questions: 1)  Which would you use on a 250 square inch model like the Akromaster, light silkspan (00) or medium silkspan (GM)?

2) The instructions say to use .015 lines, 52 feet long.  The AMA rules say you can use .012 stranded wires up to a 40 oz. model, so .015 lines seems like overkill.  So, a) Are there any good reasons for using .015 wires instead of .012 wires on the Akromaster, and b) using a steel-fin Fox .15 is 52 feet long lines seem about right?

3)  The instructions don't call for tapering the fuselage behind the wing.  Would you taper the fuselage behind the wing?  If it helps, the fuselage wood is pretty light. I would guess it's between 8-9 lb density.

4)  I'm still in the Sir Crashalott stage.  Should I use the wire landing gear or replace it with an aluminum one?   If aluminum, would the Brodak 1/16" thick tapered flat gear blank (part number BG-1961) be right for this size/weight model or the 1/32" thick (BG-1960) or the 3/32" thick (BG1964)?

5) Is it worth the effort and expense to replace the wire pushrod with a carbon fiber pushrod on a model like this?

Thanks,
Joe Ed Pederson
Cuba, MO
AMA 103434

[Dane Martin]

Since you'll need the strength, maybe don't taper the fuse. It might not be worth the effort to save a little weight.

If you have the CF for the push rod, and you like making them (like me), go ahead. Otherwise, at least add a fair lead so you don't get flex in the rod.

[gene poremba]

 Joe, I have a Sig Akromaster I built and fly every now and then. I built mine with the longer wingspan. I used the kit supplied bell crank and pushrod. I have an OS .15LA on it and use an APC 8X4 prop. I fly it on 52' .012 lines. I did taper my fuse from the rear of the canopy towards the tail. I covered my wing with silk and used Brodak dope for color. I also used the wire landing gear that came with the kit and have no problems with it. I use a Sullivan 2oz slant tank on muffler pressure. I use 15% fuel and can get 2 complete beginner sequences in and have about 10 laps or so afterward if I fill the tank. My total weight less fuel is 19oz. My OS engine is fitted with the RC carb that I have wired wide open. I think that for an under $30 kit its hard to beat......Gene


 PS there is a current running thread on the Akromaster in the controline forum at RCG with lots of builkd pics and information....Gene

[Joe Ed Pederson]

Gene,

I hadn't heard of RCG before.  Could you give me the internet address for it?

Thanks,
Joe Ed

[john e. holliday]

RCG = R C Groups.    Just do a search on the internet.  I have MSN and Yahoo for my searches. 


Well I did it  I am now a member of RC Groups.

[Dane Martin]

Gene,

I hadn't heard of RCG before.  Could you give me the internet address for it?

Thanks,
Joe Ed

Here's a direct link to the control line section. I've never really perused it, so I don't know who's on there. I've been a member for a while for RC helicopters.

https://www.rcgroups.com/control-line-63/

[Gordon Van Tighem]

Forgive me for my ignorance, but what are Airsail  Showmans? The pictures look Kool. But I can't find a search function that displays anymore than your pictures

Thanks.   Tim

Try this: (seems to be a kit from New Zealand)
http://www.airsail.co.nz/airsail-showman-xidp809407.html

[richardm]

Try this: (seems to be a kit from New Zealand)
http://www.airsail.co.nz/airsail-showman-xidp809407.html

They have been built with flaps, as a biplane (OS MAX 10 FSR in mine), 1.5 times and twice full size, I have seen them used for combat with a Taipan 3.5 cc goldhead for power( Wing over and level flight only)

They have been Fancherised with longer moments ( my current one with ASP12 power)

There was also the sportsman an all sheet trainer ( OS MAX 10FSR in mine)

Lotsa fun