New Handle, finger grips or without for 2013 ?

[Cliff Henke]

Got a few gift cards for Christmas and thought about purchasing a new control handle. I have about figured out which model ( earlier post on this site ) I want ( HARDPOINT )

but before I pick,  I would like to know what the    PROS & CONS      are in Finger grip handles or without ?   

I have only flown one handle and it has slight nubs not finger grips.

I have only owned one handle for 25 years and it is a yellow lead out cable adjustable Sullivan. The handle has been wrapped in tennis racket handle tape for a while to change the neutral feeling at the time.

Hopefully new handle & lines for the OS46LA  38 Special for "2013".

Any advice would be helpful as usual, 

Hurricane Cliff Ovalhead 61

[Fred Cronenwett]

I make these handles from Redwood and they do not have finger grips. If the radius along the edge is too small the handles does not feel natural.

Fred C.

[Fred Cronenwett]

picture #2

[Avaiojet]

Cliff,

I just got these "hard points" in the mail yesterday. Purchased from Tom Morris.

Cables will be a thing of the past for me, I don't know about others?

I'm going hard with all my handles. I can do the retro-fit myself and save some loot. I think.

Charles

[Steve Helmick]

I've used some Tom Morris handles (kits), and really didn't like the finger scallops at all. When I had them sanded almost off, they were ok, but I've been using TED handles from Carl Shoup for about 5 years now, and would never go to anything heavier or with cables. You asked. Sorry the picture sux! You really want the handle to fit snuggly across your index and pinky fingers, so custom fitting is very much in order. Both mine are 60 grams each. Lighter is mucho better, when the line tension gets dodgey.

I use the "small", which is a copy of the Hot Rock frm EZ Just. The "large" size is way big for me, and I usually wear either Large or XL gloves. The neat thing is being able to make them fit your hand, not Ted's or Bob's. I assemble them with CA, sand to shape, and finish with two coats of Z-poxy finishing resin, plus grip tape for fishing rods, tennis rackets, etc. You'll love the TED handle!   Steve

[Bart Klapinski]

    Most all my modeling career I have used the hard point handles. I do not like "cable" handles for several reasons. I don't seem to be able to feel the plane as well, not as positive input to the controls, one less thing to go wrong ---such a cable breakage, and when ever the line tension goes away the "cables" want to fall toward the ground causing just a bit more line slack. Over heads can be particularly troublesome. My hard point handles are adjustable. Just my input and I hope this is helpful. Handles with or without finger grips ( I have flown both) is what the pilot feels best using.

             Tempest

[Randy Cuberly]

I use "Ted" handles just like the one Steve Helmick pictured, made from Carl Shoup's kits.  I wanted to mention this to confirm what Steve said about very carefully fitting the handle to just touch your index and pinky fingers.  I believe this to be one of the most important features of a good handle.  I also use tennis tape wrapped around the handle in one layer.  The hard point feature gives much better feel and feedback from the control system.  It eliminates the springy feeling of the cables where they bend through a handle.  The lines alone give some springyness to the feel and that's bad enough.  I wish something could be done about them....Hmmmm.  Nahhh...

Randy Cuberly

[Howard Rush]

I think many of us fly with handles the shape of Hot Rocks because that's what we used when we were kids.  If you didn't, you may like the finger grips. They feel nice and may warn you when you pick up the handle upside down. 

[john e. holliday]

I use the Ted handle also and they do make a difference even for this old man.  Thesafety thong is what tells me if the handle is upside down  or not. 

[Randy Powell]

I use both. It depends.

[phil c]

Definitely a hard point handle, with perhaps a 1/4 in. of adjustment available.  Finger grips just get in the way.  If the finger edge of the handle has a slight outward curve top to bottom you can adjust your grip easily in flight if needed.

[Tim Wescott]

This is what I'm using, although I'm currently trying to keep up one handle per plane, and I'm getting tired of making up handles!!

[Howard Rush]

I use both. It depends.

By "both", Randy means a control handle and the buttons on his jacket.

[Steve Helmick]

By "both", Randy means a control handle and the buttons on his jacket.

It's a local joke. Not that we'd ever laugh at Randy! That episode of "Stunt Buttons" did remind us that zippers are safer to fly with.  Steve

[Randy Powell]

Howard and Steve,

Uh, just a minute while I consult ........ OK,  Here you go:   

[john e. holliday]

This is what I'm using, although I'm currently trying to keep up one handle per plane, and I'm getting tired of making up handles!!

I am using one handle for several planes.  I leave the line clip on the up leadout when I disconnect the lines to roll them up.  I try my best to get leadouts tied as close to neutral as I can.  Then it is the lines.  The handle is already at neutral.   On planes in  which I couldn't get the right length clip, I make up a set of lines just for that plane.   And like Allen B. showed me,  Sandwich Bags for the lines of each plane, well marked. 

[Dennis Moritz]

I've been using the plastic bucket handle(?) with a wire insert. Someone sells them as a combat handle. Looks like a 1/2A handle. There are finger scallops. I have been gripping this handle between the first and second knuckles. The feel is great. Entirely different than a handle gripped closer to the palm of the hand. My plane doesn't pull much. It is light. I am planning to sketch a handle like this and cut it from ply. I have two sets of hard point that will be bolted to this form. A Ted handle with scallops, held out on the fingers. When I was 40 pounds lighter and played racket ball all the time, I held the racket something like this. Great control. Lots of power.

[MarcusCordeiro]

I don't like the finger grips...


Marcus

[Chuck_Smith]

I grew up flying Hot Rocks, Anything else feels well, wrong to me. But this is one of those deals that is so personal you just need to experimet and see what feels right to you.

[Avaiojet]

This is what I'm using, although I'm currently trying to keep up one handle per plane, and I'm getting tired of making up handles!!

Tim,

Nice handle, good work!

I see you have no adjustment for one of the hard points?

Some say it's necessary for wrist angle?

Adding or taking away line HDWE will do the same. Correct?

Thanks for posting the photo.

Charles

[john e. holliday]

Different length line clips do the same thing.

[Tim Wescott]

Different length line clips do the same thing.

Yup.  I made myself a line clip bender, and I bend up clips as needed for adjustment.

Aero Products sells "Hello Kitty" line clip sets if you don't want to mess with bending your own.

[Chris Wilson]

Got a few gift cards for Christmas and thought about purchasing a new control handle. I have about figured out which model ( earlier post on this site ) I want ( HARDPOINT )

but before I pick,  I would like to know what the    PROS & CONS      are in Finger grip handles or without ?   

I have only flown one handle and it has slight nubs not finger grips.

I have only owned one handle for 25 years and it is a yellow lead out cable adjustable Sullivan. The handle has been wrapped in tennis racket handle tape for a while to change the neutral feeling at the time.

Hopefully new handle & lines for the OS46LA  38 Special for "2013".

Any advice would be helpful as usual, 

Hurricane Cliff Ovalhead 61

To me, finger grips are only useful with static handles where you want no range of movement - like on a pistol.

If you want movement then the scallops are going to hinder that somewhat.

[Cliff Henke]

Talk about help, man o man !

This boards enthusiasm has gave me more motivation than a checkered flag to get off my onions.
I had to at least try to make an attempt with all the pro & cons, used to, not no more, numbers, fit, pictures, experience of trial & error with all good HUMOR !

I think you all.

Now it's 1:00 am and just coming in from the shop and have a prototype built      but the camera won't be home till Wednesday night. My wife left it at the New Years party.   

I used .062 sheet aluminum and raw cherry. I had no metal cutting jig blades so I hack sawed it's shape, used a file and drill. It's crude but hardpoint for sure. I could have saved about 30 grams with a lighter wood but I like the hard cherry. It weights 91 grams built and ready for lines. Is this too heavy for good flying ?   

Any way, again thanks, Cliff

[Steve Helmick]

Regarding the weight, I'd say it's certainly useable, but the less the plane pulls, the more important light weight becomes. I'll look forward to your posting pictures...and if you have any problem doing that, just holler.  Steve

[Mike Lauerman]

My old flying partner in Santa Cruz (Chris B.) bought a box full of OLD C/L stuff at a yard sale, among which was a kidney-shaped cast aluminum handle. It was a 'full perimeter' design, with .015" adjustable cable (single screw with wing nut)
 
The handle was embossed with a cast name: Japan. It was natural aluminum with the upper half of it painted bright yellow.
On the bottom was a steel 'spike', which was press-fit into the aluminum frame, about 1" long, and pointed.
Chris surmised the spike was to stick it in the ground between flights, then the handle would be upright for quick pick up.

I told him it was a Japanese Combat handle. If your opponent got overly aggressive, you could 'stick him', thus keeping the match 'fair'. (much laughter)
He used the handle once, then I reminded him of static electricity...you could get a shock from that metal handle...imagine...A crash would be imminent.

[Cliff Henke]

I use to be able to post pictures from my computer to attachments on this site here but I have tried for 2 days to get a reaction out of the Browse option. Acts dead like me.

If you want to see the 1st Prototype Handle I've attempted, you can visit one of my personal sites for 3 pictures of the new Henke Hard Point Handle.

    http://carolinaanimalmodifiedseries.com/Home_Page.html

[Chris Wilson]

I use to be able to post pictures from my computer to attachments on this site here but I have tried for 2 days to get a reaction out of the Browse option. Acts dead like me.

If you want to see the 1st Prototype Handle I've attempted, you can visit one of my personal sites for 3 pictures of the new Henke Hard Point.  http://www.carolinaanimalmodifiedseries.com/

Here ya go!

[Cliff Henke]

Thanks Chris.

[Tim Wescott]

Chris:

Lots of overhang on that, isn't there?

[Chris Wilson]

Chris:

Lots of overhang on that, isn't there?

Um, yes but I would focus on the fact that it is lovingly hand made and simply a prototype of things to come.

(But it does look like a Klingon battle weapon! )

[Cliff Henke]

Thanks again Chris, it does look like a felony don't it ? Maybe a two bladed ice scraper...................anyway it's still in the R&D stage.

Cliff

[Brian Massey]

I personally like a handle with finger "scallops". The caveat is they must fit your hand! I make my own handles now and use a sanding drum on my drill press to get all the "scallops" just where they need to be to fit my hand. With that done the handle feels very comfortable and neutral in my hand. As a bonus, feels very secure; easy to grip and not like it wants to slip.

Brian

[Bill Little]

I like a handle to have either a smooth hand grip or slight indentations that I add to fit my individual hand.  I do not like the ones with deep cutouts for the fingers and are pointed between them.

BIG Bear
RNMM/AMM

[david beazley]

Here is my version of a hard point handle.  The black dots are 220 grit wet or dry sandpaper glued to the handle for non slip grip.

[Joshua Harel]

I prefer having scallops because it gives me a better feeling of securely holding the handle. Since I built it myself - the scallops are designed to fit my fingers and the handle feels very comfortable to me. I do paint my handles with "Crinkle" paint so if my hand gets oily or sweaty the handle will not slip. Here are a few pictures.

[Cliff Henke]

Interesting Joshua !  Any operational details or advantages ?      Kinda reminds me of the new $300.00 electronic slot car controllers, 1 trigger, 4 dial knobs.  Nice work. 

Thanks for sharing and have a Safe Happy 4 of July !   

Cliff

[EddyR]

David do you know what overhang is?? If not do a search on here about handle overhang. Your handle has to much overhang and it will kill the feel of the plane. Just a suggestion.
Ed

[Geoff Goodworth]

I think the woodwork for Marvin Denny's handle is the best of both worlds—just one scallop between index and middle finger to ensure that the handle is handed, i.e. up line to the top.

Although the original design has a cable adjustment, using Marvin's handle outline with hard point pieces like those in Tom Morris' new hard point handle or the Ted handle is worth considering. You make the one scallop to suit your own hand. Put your lanyard close to the bottom, or around the bottom arm and you should pick the handle up the right way each time.

The drawing for the Marvin handle is available in the Downloads section.

[Mark Scarborough]

This is what I'm using, although I'm currently trying to keep up one handle per plane, and I'm getting tired of making up handles!!

funny,, I complained about building enough planes for my handles,,,I built like three or four at one shot,, never had enough airplanes for the handles after that,, Tim,, do YOU have that many airplanes now,, cause that would be a good thing right? 

[bob whitney]

 anything feels light after learning to fly on a Jim Walker  U/Realy

[keith varley]

When investing time to make handles , at least consider looking at the handle article in the excellent website of Klaus Makis. Go to the "Workshop" heading and scroll down.

http://www.clacro.de/

His handles are more shaped like the palm of your hand. I am currently using one inspired by him.and I think that it's the nicest feeling handle I have ever used.
Keith

[Chris Wilson]

The odd thing is that 'finger grips' don't do any gripping at all here since the U shape of the handle should be more than enough to prevent slippage.

It got to be a personal thing, you either like it or you don't.

[dirty dan]

Howard and Steve,

Uh, just a minute while I consult ........ OK,  Here you go:   

That's right, keep sticking your tongue out at us! The easily predictable result will be telling the tale all over again. The next time we might even embellish the story somewhat even if such is hardly required...

Dan

[john e. holliday]

Had to go look myself at the pictures.   Don't know Fred's thinking, but the grain should run vertical in my thinking.   But maybe the redwood is like elm,  takes a hydraulic press to split the wood with the grain.