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Offline Norm Faith Jr.

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Brett Buck / Starliner
« on: June 06, 2024, 10:35:54 PM »
Brett, with all of the problems, what are those two Astronauts looking at? 
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Re: Brett Buck / Starliner
« Reply #1 on: June 07, 2024, 12:11:48 AM »
Brett, with all of the problems, what are those two Astronauts looking at? 
Norm

    I have to admit I haven’t been following the mission, having a few other issues with space stuff of my own, and, two nights of the power failing! PG&E stellar customer service, it’s terrible, but at least it is expensive!

     Do you have any links? Are they having any significant problems?

     Brett

Offline Dave Hull

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Re: Brett Buck / Starliner
« Reply #2 on: June 07, 2024, 02:30:46 AM »
They will probably be busy working with Boeing/NASA all week diagnosing the manifold leaks and the intermittent service module thrusters. One article suggested the Boeing engineers are hard at work on that already. It becomes a question of whether they collected enough data this time to improve on prior fault isolation efforts. It is now clear that those prior efforts were not fully successful. I don't think anyone can say that the helium fuel pressurization system at this point is predictable, either. I don't know if the service module taps a vehicle-wide or cross-strapped dual helium source needed for reentry. If so, and it starts leaking a lot more than it has so far, then it might change how the attitude controls might be used. But as far as I understand it, all of the thrusters causing problems are part of the service module which is jettisoned prior to reentry. The Boeing manager was being cautious/cagey about any evolving theories about the glitches in the thruster controls, saying he didn't think it was software (their prior focus) or hardware--rather, he said it might be a data issue. That implies something like data dropouts, bus collisions, registers that don't update properly, or data that is corrupted by RF noise, or.....

So other than recharging the water cooling supply, I haven't heard that much can be done on-orbit. Thus, you monitor progress on the troubleshooting, perhaps defeat some thruster circuits, perhaps change your operational plan, but you either get in and de-orbit the thing (possibly with less safety margin) or you park it and wait for another ride. If the helium leaks don't get worse, then the issue that would bother me most is whether the thruster problem is entirely limited to the service module, or does it go beyond that where a glitch at a critical point during reentry might cause you to have a really bad day. More info is needed for the public to understand this. Otherwise, we just know that "Boeing isn't worried."

edit---I found a pre-launch article (Space.com by Elizabeth Howell) on the helium and thruster issue that sheds more light on things:

But under "the right circumstances of failures," meaning the loss of two manifolds of thrusters in adjacent doghouses, they could lose the ability to fire eight RCS jets at once and thus, also lose a form of backup.

"So we wanted to take extra precaution to understand, what could we do if we lost our thrusters? We've worked with the vendor of the thruster [Aerojet Rocketdyne], Boeing and our NASA team to come up with a redundant method to do with your burn: To break it up into two burns, about 10 minutes each [and] 80 minutes apart, to come up with a four-RCS-thruster deorbit burn and to regain the capability of the original system.

"And that took a little time for our team to go work through," he continued, saying it involved NASA teams in guidance and navigation, structures and propulsion alongside Aerojet Rocketdyne and Boeing teams. "So we have that restored that redundancy for the backup capability in a very remote set of failures for the deorbit burn."

The crew successfully tested out this scenario in a simulator recently, likely one of the high-fidelity ones at NASA's Johnson Space Center in Houston (where they remain in quarantine.) This change in the redundancy, however, is one of the primary drivers behind the upcoming delta flight readiness review on May 29 to review the human certification for Starliner, Stich said. The team also wanted to take the time to examine the helium leak and all fixes, after resting this Memorial Day weekend.

Offline Norm Faith Jr.

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Re: Brett Buck / Starliner
« Reply #3 on: June 07, 2024, 09:24:19 AM »
Thanks Dave.

They will probably be busy working with Boeing/NASA all week diagnosing the manifold leaks and the intermittent service module thrusters. One article suggested the Boeing engineers are hard at work on that already. It becomes a question of whether they collected enough data this time to improve on prior fault isolation efforts. It is now clear that those prior efforts were not fully successful. I don't think anyone can say that the helium fuel pressurization system at this point is predictable, either. I don't know if the service module taps a vehicle-wide or cross-strapped dual helium source needed for reentry. If so, and it starts leaking a lot more than it has so far, then it might change how the attitude controls might be used. But as far as I understand it, all of the thrusters causing problems are part of the service module which is jettisoned prior to reentry. The Boeing manager was being cautious/cagey about any evolving theories about the glitches in the thruster controls, saying he didn't think it was software (their prior focus) or hardware--rather, he said it might be a data issue. That implies something like data dropouts, bus collisions, registers that don't update properly, or data that is corrupted by RF noise, or.....

So other than recharging the water cooling supply, I haven't heard that much can be done on-orbit. Thus, you monitor progress on the troubleshooting, perhaps defeat some thruster circuits, perhaps change your operational plan, but you either get in and de-orbit the thing (possibly with less safety margin) or you park it and wait for another ride. If the helium leaks don't get worse, then the issue that would bother me most is whether the thruster problem is entirely limited to the service module, or does it go beyond that where a glitch at a critical point during reentry might cause you to have a really bad day. More info is needed for the public to understand this. Otherwise, we just know that "Boeing isn't worried."

edit---I found a pre-launch article (Space.com by Elizabeth Howell) on the helium and thruster issue that sheds more light on things:

But under "the right circumstances of failures," meaning the loss of two manifolds of thrusters in adjacent doghouses, they could lose the ability to fire eight RCS jets at once and thus, also lose a form of backup.

"So we wanted to take extra precaution to understand, what could we do if we lost our thrusters? We've worked with the vendor of the thruster [Aerojet Rocketdyne], Boeing and our NASA team to come up with a redundant method to do with your burn: To break it up into two burns, about 10 minutes each [and] 80 minutes apart, to come up with a four-RCS-thruster deorbit burn and to regain the capability of the original system.

"And that took a little time for our team to go work through," he continued, saying it involved NASA teams in guidance and navigation, structures and propulsion alongside Aerojet Rocketdyne and Boeing teams. "So we have that restored that redundancy for the backup capability in a very remote set of failures for the deorbit burn."

The crew successfully tested out this scenario in a simulator recently, likely one of the high-fidelity ones at NASA's Johnson Space Center in Houston (where they remain in quarantine.) This change in the redundancy, however, is one of the primary drivers behind the upcoming delta flight readiness review on May 29 to review the human certification for Starliner, Stich said. The team also wanted to take the time to examine the helium leak and all fixes, after resting this Memorial Day weekend.


Thanks Dave.
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Re: Brett Buck / Starliner
« Reply #4 on: June 07, 2024, 03:26:30 PM »

But under "the right circumstances of failures," meaning the loss of two manifolds of thrusters in adjacent doghouses, they could lose the ability to fire eight RCS jets at once and thus, also lose a form of backup.

"So we wanted to take extra precaution to understand, what could we do if we lost our thrusters? We've worked with the vendor of the thruster [Aerojet Rocketdyne], Boeing and our NASA team to come up with a redundant method to do with your burn: To break it up into two burns, about 10 minutes each [and] 80 minutes apart, to come up with a four-RCS-thruster deorbit burn and to regain the capability of the original system.


   The update is a somewhat more illuminating, it is unclear to me if the leak is in latch valves between the helium source and the tank, or a regulator (mechanical or electronically controllable). Either way, it is unobvious why you couldn't run in blowdown mode, presuming you have to isolate the helium.

  I see no reason why a dual burn deorbit maneuver would be a problem. It would be a big problem if it was lower, but at 250 miles, the first perigee would still be up around 100 miles, which will give them a lot of torquing but is in no real danger of overheating.

  Thanks for tracking that down, I wasn't paying any attention to the mission, and have no contacts into Boeing space any more.

      Brett

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Re: Brett Buck / Starliner
« Reply #5 on: June 07, 2024, 03:30:45 PM »
Brett, with all of the problems, what are those two Astronauts looking at? 
Norm

   As noted, I don't know any of the details on this one, but usually the astronauts don't diagnose these sorts of problems or come up with workarounds. They're smart and experienced, but there are so many details that they probably don't know that you count on teams on the ground to dig don into the details. Probably a combination of Boeing OPS guys, Boeing propulsion engineers and system engineers,  Aerojet subcontractor representatives, and NASA for oversight

     Brett

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Re: Brett Buck / Starliner
« Reply #6 on: June 07, 2024, 11:40:30 PM »
   As noted, I don't know any of the details on this one, but usually the astronauts don't diagnose these sorts of problems or come up with workarounds. They're smart and experienced, but there are so many details that they probably don't know that you count on teams on the ground to dig don into the details. Probably a combination of Boeing OPS guys, Boeing propulsion engineers and system engineers,  Aerojet subcontractor representatives, and NASA for oversight

     Brett

Thanks
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Offline Dave Hull

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Re: Brett Buck / Starliner
« Reply #7 on: August 25, 2024, 12:11:11 AM »
So we have a answer to the question Norm asked and a previous response here:  "...you either get in and de-orbit the thing (possibly with less safety margin) or you park it and wait for another ride."

According to the NASA administrator, and a universal consensus of key NASA people they are going to wait for another ride. That leaves the flight test crew on orbit until next year. But it appears that we get a "second guess" data point next month when NASA plans to deorbit the Starliner, uncrewed.

I think the fact that the Boeing discussion went from their initial (public) thoughts that it wasn't software (this time) and not mechanical, but some kind of data issue, to a clear mechanical issue in the thrusters themselves with no predictability (my assumption) about risks of continuing failures means the truck goes home empty this time. All the testing out at White Sands on the thrusters probably really started illustrating the seal failures under repeated and/or extended hot cycles.

There's nothing easy about this, but Boeing has certainly made things harder. I find it very odd that hardly anyone is talking about Aerojet....

Online Brett Buck

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Re: Brett Buck / Starliner
« Reply #8 on: August 25, 2024, 12:48:14 AM »
I think the fact that the Boeing discussion went from their initial (public) thoughts that it wasn't software (this time) and not mechanical, but some kind of data issue, to a clear mechanical issue in the thrusters themselves with no predictability (my assumption) about risks of continuing failures means the truck goes home empty this time. All the testing out at White Sands on the thrusters probably really started illustrating the seal failures under repeated and/or extended hot cycles.

There's nothing easy about this, but Boeing has certainly made things harder. I find it very odd that hardly anyone is talking about Aerojet....

     Again, I still have absolutely no inside information, but piecing it together, the thruster issue appears to be a thermal soak-back problem exceeding the limits of the valve seat material (probably teflon), which gets too hot and then "swells up", and either binds up the mechanism or restricts the flow.

     This entire episode seems rather strange for a NASA program, usually, you get lots of specific information, but in this case, they are more-or-less just announcing plans with no real technical information. I would speculate that this is because Boeing and Aerojet are treating the data as proprietary, like most commercial contracts.

    Brett

Offline Dave Hull

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Re: Brett Buck / Starliner
« Reply #9 on: August 25, 2024, 02:33:20 AM »
Definitely a dearth of details....your observation about a commercial contract makes as much sense as any I can think of.

Having been subjected to "NASA oversight" before, I can understand why sometimes industry cooperation (or just public information) may be limited. NASA might send 40 consultants who often know less than is helpful, whereupon you provide them with specific facts/data, then they beat you over the head with it like they discovered it and was not part of disclosure....  Then they make a number of impractical suggestions that are not helpful to move forward. But when presented with real options, the group often diverges into a binary solution set: either some path that (to them) represents zero risk, or some path that ensures a launch date, without accounting for risk. Very curious.

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Re: Brett Buck / Starliner
« Reply #10 on: August 25, 2024, 08:05:21 AM »
I thought Elon offered to send a CrewDragon to pick them up.
He is launching a rocket almost every day.
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Re: Brett Buck / Starliner
« Reply #11 on: August 25, 2024, 10:05:49 AM »
One article suggested the Boeing engineers are hard at work on that already.

Did they call Bell or Sikorsky?

 
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Offline Dave Hull

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Re: Brett Buck / Starliner
« Reply #12 on: August 25, 2024, 11:15:31 PM »
Yes, the current plan is to bring them back next February during a scheduled crew rotation on the SpaceX Crew Dragon. Sort of a new take on "I went to the store to pick up some eggs for breakfast but ended up becoming an egg rancher in the next county over...so I'll be back in a year."

I don't understand the comment on Bell and Sikorsky. It went over my head.... I'm having trouble with an intuitive leap that brings any recent spacecraft experience from either one, or how it solves a rocket thruster fuel control issue. So, if that was what you meant (that anybody but Boeing could do better, even the rotorheads), ok, but the truth is that Boeing has been involved in spacecraft for a long time. I would in part attribute the trail of issues with the Starliner to a failed leadership culture emanating from the top. I've seen it in other companies....

D

Offline Scott Richlen

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Re: Brett Buck / Starliner
« Reply #13 on: August 26, 2024, 07:41:34 PM »
Quote
failed leadership culture emanating from the top

Yes, it apparently is not widely known that accountants, finance majors, and MBAs do not, in general, make good rocket scientists.  Elon Musk has set a new standard for some in industry by demanding that the management in charge of engineering and science actually know something about engineering and science.  Who woulda thought....

Offline Dan McEntee

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Re: Brett Buck / Starliner
« Reply #14 on: August 26, 2024, 08:13:37 PM »
Yes, it apparently is not widely known that accountants, finance majors, and MBAs do not, in general, make good rocket scientists.  Elon Musk has set a new standard for some in industry by demanding that the management in charge of engineering and science actually know something about engineering and science.  Who woulda thought....

   Hey!! Maybe they ought to apply that thought to Government??? Say what you mean, mean what you say and hold people accountable!!
 
  Type at you later,
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Online Brett Buck

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Re: Brett Buck / Starliner
« Reply #15 on: August 26, 2024, 08:33:50 PM »
   

Quote
Yes, it apparently is not widely known that accountants, finance majors, and MBAs do not, in general, make good rocket scientists.  Elon Musk has set a new standard for some in industry by demanding that the management in charge of engineering and science actually know something about engineering and science.  Who woulda thought....

This thread has left my tongue with very deep bite marks.

    Brett

Offline Dave Hull

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Re: Brett Buck / Starliner
« Reply #16 on: August 26, 2024, 11:31:15 PM »
Brett,

Here are some palliative care mantras that (almost) worked for me: 
"A project engineer does not need project technical experience to be in charge." [Repeat as required.] 
"A team lead is not a technology-skilled role." [Repeat as required.]
"A scheduler does not need to know how many months a similar task took last time because the default duration is always one week." [Repeat as required.] 
"The requirements are flexible as long as someone has the nerve to ask the customer 'if he expects a meat patty in his burger.'" [Don't bother repeating as this would be the province of PMs, Systems, and the ChiefEng who are immune to out-of-discipline performance requirements.]

If, by using this palliative care protocol, you find you are talking to yourself more than working--retire. It will be easy for line management to find 6 guys with no experience to create the next imbroglio....

Anon

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Re: Brett Buck / Starliner
« Reply #17 on: August 26, 2024, 11:33:08 PM »
Brett,

Here are some palliative care mantras that (almost) worked for me: 

Palliative care mantras - or aversion therapy?

    Brett

Offline Dave Hull

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Re: Brett Buck / Starliner
« Reply #18 on: August 26, 2024, 11:33:34 PM »
Yes.

Offline Scott Richlen

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Re: Brett Buck / Starliner
« Reply #19 on: August 27, 2024, 06:14:39 AM »
Quote
This thread has left my tongue with very deep bite marks.

Sorry Brett, my intent was not to incur a round of self-mutilation.  It's just that, when fully engaged, diversity policy requires you to hire merit of the negative set.  A real disaster when it comes to the Executive Suite.... poor Boeing.

Offline Norm Faith Jr.

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Re: Brett Buck / Starliner
« Reply #20 on: August 27, 2024, 09:54:49 PM »
     Again, I still have absolutely no inside information, but piecing it together, the thruster issue appears to be a thermal soak-back problem exceeding the limits of the valve seat material (probably teflon), which gets too hot and then "swells up", and either binds up the mechanism or restricts the flow.

     This entire episode seems rather strange for a NASA program, usually, you get lots of specific information, but in this case, they are more-or-less just announcing plans with no real technical information. I would speculate that this is because Boeing and Aerojet are treating the data as proprietary, like most commercial contracts.

    Brett
Yes Brett, that is what I heard during one of the televised briefings. "The thrusters were prematurely overheating and causing the Teflon seals to swell and extrude enough to cause the helium to leak.
Norm
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Re: Brett Buck / Starliner
« Reply #21 on: August 27, 2024, 10:32:04 PM »
Yes Brett, that is what I heard during one of the televised briefings. "The thrusters were prematurely overheating and causing the Teflon seals to swell and extrude enough to cause the helium to leak.
Norm

  The implication is an issue called "soak-back" . When a thruster is firing full-on, lots of nice 65-degree propellant runs through it and the valves stay nice and cool. When you stop, the combustion chamber/reaction chamber is typically white-hot. Most of that heat is supposed to radiate away into space, but some of it conducts back up into the valve. Typically, the highest valve temperatures are reached minutes or 10s of minutes after the firing ends, at least on small radiation-cooled thrusters. When you pulse fire it, usually, at some combination of firing frequency and on-time/duty cycle, there is not enough propellant flow to offset the heat generated, and it slowly heats up. These are operating regions to avoid. There are number of ways to deal with this, mostly, you try to design it so you never need to run in these regions.

    There's a lot more to it, as you might expect, but once it does heat up, several bad things can happen. Depending on the propellant, if it gets hot enough, it can "decompose", that is, break the bonds and flash to a gas while generating large amounts of heat. This is the same effect that is used for monpropellant thrusters, where you spray some fuel into a catalyst (like hydrazine or high-grade hydrogen peroxide  on to a platinum screen or pebble bed). Glow engines depend on the decomposition of another pair of monopropellants, methanol and nitromethane, onto a red-hot platinum, rhodium, etc, wire. But when it happens in a closed pressure vessel like a thruster valve, at best it spits out gas for very poor performance, or overheats it further and melts or breaks something, or worst case, the entire system blows sky-high, as the shock from the initial decomposition travels back up the pipe and triggers the rest of it to blow. Most spacecraft propellants are not very prone to that. But it is what happened to Rutan when he ran a "oxidizer flow test" on the ramp at the Mojave airport with a crowd of rubberneckers, they opened or closed a valve, the shock started to decompose the oxidizer - nitrous oxide - which then sent a shock wave back up into the lines and the tank, kaboom. 3people dead, completely due to hubris.

   Other things that can happen is that the heat can overtemp the materials, in this case, apparently, teflon, and cause leak, clogs, jammed valve mechanisms, etc.

   Everybody more-or-less knows about these sorts of issues and addresses them somehow, but sometimes they don't get it right. You might think, perhaps, that burying the thrusters inside other structure and reducing the radiative cooling and effectively insulating the engine makes it run hotter than they thought. Of course, they also knew they were doing that, so you would expect that they had a plan that for one reason or another, didn't work out.

    Again, we have precious little information about the specifics - like which thruster, who made it (we are just guessing it was Aerojet, but maybe Moog, or one of the innumerable startups), wht fuel it uses, how it is cooled, what propellant is uses, or more-or-less a thousand other things. Or in fact what the problem and symptoms might be.

  So treat that as general information, we still don't have any specifics on the problem and don't expect any will be forthcoming.

    Brett

p.s. OK, I spent a few minutes trying to find out, there are *55* engines, total, on the capsule, and they are all made by Aerojet. Here is the 1500 lb engine firing in a test. I guess it was one of these, or the 85 lb attitude control thrusters, since those are the ones that would be used a lot after separation from the booster.

  I would also add that Boeing thinks that it is OK the way it is, presumably from simulating the return/reentry and finding that the engines don't run in a bad regime.

« Last Edit: August 27, 2024, 10:52:54 PM by Brett Buck »

Offline Norm Faith Jr.

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Re: Brett Buck / Starliner
« Reply #22 on: August 27, 2024, 11:11:42 PM »
  The implication is an issue called "soak-back" . When a thruster is firing full-on, lots of nice 65-degree propellant runs through it and the valves stay nice and cool. When you stop, the combustion chamber/reaction chamber is typically white-hot. Most of that heat is supposed to radiate away into space, but some of it conducts back up into the valve. Typically, the highest valve temperatures are reached minutes or 10s of minutes after the firing ends, at least on small radiation-cooled thrusters. When you pulse fire it, usually, at some combination of firing frequency and on-time/duty cycle, there is not enough propellant flow to offset the heat generated, and it slowly heats up. These are operating regions to avoid. There are number of ways to deal with this, mostly, you try to design it so you never need to run in these regions.

    There's a lot more to it, as you might expect, but once it does heat up, several bad things can happen. Depending on the propellant, if it gets hot enough, it can "decompose", that is, break the bonds and flash to a gas while generating large amounts of heat. This is the same effect that is used for monpropellant thrusters, where you spray some fuel into a catalyst (like hydrazine or high-grade hydrogen peroxide  on to a platinum screen or pebble bed). Glow engines depend on the decomposition of another pair of monopropellants, methanol and nitromethane, onto a red-hot platinum, rhodium, etc, wire. But when it happens in a closed pressure vessel like a thruster valve, at best it spits out gas for very poor performance, or overheats it further and melts or breaks something, or worst case, the entire system blows sky-high, as the shock from the initial decomposition travels back up the pipe and triggers the rest of it to blow. Most spacecraft propellants are not very prone to that. But it is what happened to Rutan when he ran a "oxidizer flow test" on the ramp at the Mojave airport with a crowd of rubberneckers, they opened or closed a valve, the shock started to decompose the oxidizer - nitrous oxide - which then sent a shock wave back up into the lines and the tank, kaboom. 3people dead, completely due to hubris.

   Other things that can happen is that the heat can overtemp the materials, in this case, apparently, teflon, and cause leak, clogs, jammed valve mechanisms, etc.

   Everybody more-or-less knows about these sorts of issues and addresses them somehow, but sometimes they don't get it right. You might think, perhaps, that burying the thrusters inside other structure and reducing the radiative cooling and effectively insulating the engine makes it run hotter than they thought. Of course, they also knew they were doing that, so you would expect that they had a plan that for one reason or another, didn't work out.

    Again, we have precious little information about the specifics - like which thruster, who made it (we are just guessing it was Aerojet, but maybe Moog, or one of the innumerable startups), wht fuel it uses, how it is cooled, what propellant is uses, or more-or-less a thousand other things. Or in fact what the problem and symptoms might be.

  So treat that as general information, we still don't have any specifics on the problem and don't expect any will be forthcoming.

    Brett

p.s. OK, I spent a few minutes trying to find out, there are *55* engines, total, on the capsule, and they are all made by Aerojet. Here is the 1500 lb engine firing in a test. I guess it was one of these, or the 85 lb attitude control thrusters, since those are the ones that would be used a lot after separation from the booster.

  I would also add that Boeing thinks that it is OK the way it is, presumably from simulating the return/reentry and finding that the engines don't run in a bad regime.
[/quote





From your description...a lot of physics, chemistry and engineering going on there. I didn't realize there are that many engines on the capsule but is makes sense to be able to control the craft in every "minute direction" in space. BTW...would that be Aerojet of Camden, Arkansas?
Norm
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Re: Brett Buck / Starliner
« Reply #23 on: August 27, 2024, 11:36:48 PM »


From your description...a lot of physics, chemistry and engineering going on there. I didn't realize there are that many engines on the capsule but is makes sense to be able to control the craft in every "minute direction" in space. BTW...would that be Aerojet of Camden, Arkansas?
Norm

  They use "rocket science" as an example of something complicated for a reason.

   It's the same company, but the Camden facility makes solid rocket systems, not these sorts of engines. The Aerojet facilities I have visited were in Rancho Cordova near Sacramento, and before they bought Marquardt, the Marquardt facility in Van Nuys. I think they moved out of Rancho Cordova to Alabama, I haven't had any reason to go there since about 2005.

    Brett

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Re: Brett Buck / Starliner
« Reply #24 on: August 27, 2024, 11:42:45 PM »
The Aerojet-Rocketdyne MR-104J thrusters were designed and built in Redmond, Washington according to Aerojet.

Online Brett Buck

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Re: Brett Buck / Starliner
« Reply #25 on: August 28, 2024, 12:23:42 AM »
The Aerojet-Rocketdyne MR-104J thrusters were designed and built in Redmond, Washington according to Aerojet.

   OK. I know they have a facility there, too, because it's where they make the Hall Current Thrusters.

   Brett
« Last Edit: September 06, 2024, 10:07:55 PM by Brett Buck »

Online Brett Buck

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Re: Brett Buck / Starliner
« Reply #26 on: September 06, 2024, 10:08:53 PM »
   To finish the thought, it separated from the ISS, unmanned, and successfully landed at White Sands, with no apparent issues.

     Brett

Offline Dave Hull

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Re: Brett Buck / Starliner
« Reply #27 on: September 06, 2024, 10:31:24 PM »
Looks like they used the forward thrusters only to back away. I wonder if the 12-burn exit was similar to the nominal schedule, or if they broke it up into smaller burns?

Online Brett Buck

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Re: Brett Buck / Starliner
« Reply #28 on: September 06, 2024, 10:44:36 PM »
Looks like they used the forward thrusters only to back away. I wonder if the 12-burn exit was similar to the nominal schedule, or if they broke it up into smaller burns?

     Again I have no inside information, but one would assume that they used the SM and the equivalent of the Gemini OAMS thrusters to do almost everything up to CM sep, and only used the CM for reentry attitude control. That's what their TLM graphics showed.

     From what little else I have been able to gather from the public information, my guess above may have been right, it was vaguely suggested that the root problem was indeed cross-heating from thrusters in the SM thruster "doghouses", that is, one engine transferred heat to another because they were all right next to each other in a box.

     Brett

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