Author Topic: New 4-Stroke stunt ship (Read 4397 times)

Will Moore · « **on:** May 16, 2009, 04:13:28 PM »

I thought it would be kind of fun to design a new stunt ship , with the Saito 62 in mind.

I had this thought of mounting the Saito on its side, as Bob Reeves and others have mentioned

they run better that way. So, it ended up being a jiont effort between me and John Ashford.

This is what we came up with.

Will Moore

Ralph Wenzel (d) · « **Reply #1 on:** May 16, 2009, 04:48:44 PM »

Great-looking nose! Where's the rest of it???

EDIT after add'l photos posted . . .

Thanx for the extra photos. That's pretty all over!!!

Does it have a name??

Will Moore · « **Reply #2 on:** May 16, 2009, 05:27:18 PM »

Thanks Ralph;

Here are some more pictures;

peabody · « **Reply #3 on:** May 16, 2009, 05:29:12 PM »

Great looking plane!

Dennis Adamisin · « **Reply #4 on:** May 16, 2009, 06:32:00 PM »

Will:
In a word; FABULOUS!

...Test flights???

Richard Grogan · « **Reply #5 on:** May 16, 2009, 06:42:23 PM »

WoW! Very cool Will! Is that a 2-liter bottom cowl? I used one on a Bearcat once, seemed to work pretty good.
I love the colors you chose...

Will Moore · « **Reply #6 on:** May 16, 2009, 08:19:43 PM »

Dennis;

I am working on test flights as we speak. I have had to change the 4 oz. round plastic clunk tank to a 6 oz. as,
for some reason , the Saito is sucking up more than 4 oz. to do a pattern.
The tank compartment hatch is built into the side, as you can see from the photos, which is handy.

Engine is not broken in yet. Has about 1 hour on it. Using Powermaster 20/20 YS fuel. So far, I am using a 13/6 prop at about 7,500rpm static at launch, on 66 foot eye to eye lines.

Flies very well. Good line tension everywhere, and good tracking. Still fooling around with balance and lead out position.
the Saito sounds real nice. Should have everything tweaked in another week.

Will Moore

Will Moore · « **Reply #7 on:** May 16, 2009, 08:22:42 PM »

Richard;

It IS a 2 liter bottom cowl - actually 2 glued together with some reinforcement in the front cone.

It's light and serves the illusion of a cowl. John Ashland thought of that, and I think it works out rather well.

Allan Perret · « **Reply #8 on:** May 16, 2009, 08:29:41 PM »

Very nice..

Did you use a RC type mount?

Hows that Xoar prop working for you ? One of my flying buddies tried a 11-6 or -7 on a Saito 40, he didnt like it. Gave it to me, I havent tried it yet.

Will Moore · « **Reply #9 on:** May 17, 2009, 05:06:09 AM »

Hi Allen;

I am using an R/C mount. It simplified the and kept the nose wide open. When using such a mount it is easy to adjust thrust lines in case of trim issues.
It is just another nice option you have.

I am using a Xoar 13/6 right now, just to try it out. The one pictured is a 14/6, for show. I am still experimenting with props. I usually start off using an APC 13/6 or 7 to get the bird trimmed, and then, I start fine tuning with other prop options. I usually start with APC because I find them very consistant, prop to prop.
I was intrigued by the Xoar's and so I bought a few to try them out. The bird is not fine tuned yet, I am still playing around. Looks good on the bird though,
doesn't it ?

Matt Colan · « **Reply #10 on:** May 17, 2009, 05:41:31 AM »

Looks great Will!!!! Can't wait to see it this year. What did you paint it with?

john e. holliday · « **Reply #11 on:** May 17, 2009, 07:46:53 AM »

Is that a molded fuselage? I love the looks of the plane. The finish is a real sparkler and I would love to see it in person. DOC Holliday

Will Moore · « **Reply #12 on:** May 17, 2009, 10:01:40 AM »

Quote from: Matt Colan on May 17, 2009, 05:41:31 AM

Looks great Will!!!! Can't wait to see it this year. What did you paint it with?

Hi Matt;

Can't wait to see your beautiful Ares. That was my favorite ship when I stopped flying as I had to go into the Armed Services / Vietnam about 1967.
That was my weapon back then. Ask Dave Cook as he knows all about it.

That is automotive finish with 2 part pearl clear coat over the top. John Ashford has the system mastered. It's really nice with the sun on it. Seems to
change color depending on the angle .

SteveMoon · « **Reply #13 on:** May 17, 2009, 11:14:19 AM »

Great looking plane Will. I'm always happy to see designs that aren't
the standard lawn dart CL plane. I used an RC mount on my Berringer
Sportster several years ago and really liked the simplicity of it. The
Saito 56 in that plane always ran great. Maybe the firewall/RC mount
system has something to do with it. Thinking about it, I've always had
great motor runs on my Imitation with an RC mount. Hmmmmmmm.

Steve

Allan Perret · « **Reply #14 on:** May 17, 2009, 12:35:18 PM »

Steve and / or Will:
When you use the RC mount for a Saito 56 / 62 like this, what is the thickness of the plywood firewall, and what do you do to tie it into the rest of the nose structure.

Will Moore · « **Reply #15 on:** May 17, 2009, 02:20:33 PM »

Quote from: SteveMoon on May 17, 2009, 11:14:19 AM

Great looking plane Will. I'm always happy to see designs that aren't
the standard lawn dart CL plane. I used an RC mount on my Berringer
Sportster several years ago and really liked the simplicity of it. The
Saito 56 in that plane always ran great. Maybe the firewall/RC mount
system has something to do with it. Thinking about it, I've always had
great motor runs on my Imitation with an RC mount. Hmmmmmmm.

Steve

Go for it Steve. I think there are many advantages to this setup. John used a 2 piece r/c mount, but doing it again, we are going to use a single piece
design - it's so much easier to place against the firewall.

Are you still using 4-stroke ?

Will Moore · « **Reply #16 on:** May 17, 2009, 02:37:47 PM »

Quote from: john e. holliday on May 17, 2009, 07:46:53 AM

Is that a molded fuselage? I love the looks of the plane. The finish is a real sparkler and I would love to see it in person. DOC Holliday

Hi Doc;

I plan on going to Brodak in June, I don't know if you go, but if you do, You'll see it. This is a prototype design. If I like the way it flies, I want to
build another, with a few alterations, in electric. John Ashford assures me it can be built lighter than this one is ( about 68 ounces). This
"Thunder Cloud" has an excellent power to weight ratio, and all the right "numbers". The next 4-stroke variant may have a slightly longer tail moment
to deal with the Saito 62's weight, but John pretty much hit it right on at the beginning. I like my birds a little tail sensitive that's all. John feels
that an electric version would weigh in about or slightly less than this current bird. That would be interesting !

John Ashford might chime in here, and he would best explain how the nose was built. Basically it has two skins on it. The 1st is stripped balsa
beveled to glue up corectly , over formers around the nose to the area just up to the canopy. Over that is a thin balsa skin molded around the stripped balsa.
The inside engine and compartments are all sealed with West System epoxy. Very strong and very light.

Bob Reeves · « **Reply #17 on:** May 17, 2009, 05:30:09 PM »

Typically firewall is 1/4 inch aircraft plywood with triangular balsa braces to help tie it into the fuselage sides. Two pieces of 1/8th laminated together is fine, I use conventional 1/16th ply fuselage doublers to epoxy everything to. 6-32 blind nuts hold the RC mounts to the fire wall.

Yes a one piece mount is easier to install but I use two piece mounts for 4 strokes so I can get the intake as close to the firewall as possible. On one piece mounts the intake hits the rear part of the mount and the engine ends up out on the end of the beams. I feel the closer the engine can be mounted to the firewall the better and the little amount of extra fiddling for two part mounts is worth the effort.

Matt Colan · « **Reply #18 on:** May 17, 2009, 07:34:20 PM »

Quote from: Will Moore on May 17, 2009, 10:01:40 AM

Hi Matt;

Can't wait to see your beautiful Ares. That was my favorite ship when I stopped flying as I had to go into the Armed Services / Vietnam about 1967.
That was my weapon back then. Ask Dave Cook as he knows all about it.

That is automotive finish with 2 part pearl clear coat over the top. John Ashford has the system mastered. It's really nice with the sun on it. Seems to
change color depending on the angle .

Thanks Will, I'll be making my first trip to Brodak this year and can't wait to go. I registered on Saturday. I'll be bringing my Ares with me

Bob Reeves · « **Reply #19 on:** May 18, 2009, 06:56:35 AM »

Hi Will,

Yesterday was a great day in Tulsa, finally quit raining, John Ashford came over from Ok City to play with us and we had a really fun time. Put several flights on the Latency and it's comming along great, easiest airplane to trim I've ever had. I also had to go to a 6 ounce tank, not sure if it's the cooler weather or what but 4 ounces wasn't quite enough.

Sure like your new airplane, I think the cowl looks better than the engine sticking out the side of mine. We are going to have fun at Brodaks, looking forward to compairing notes..

SteveMoon · « **Reply #20 on:** May 18, 2009, 07:53:55 AM »

Bob's got it right on the firewall/RC mount method. I do like
to use the Dave Brown one piece mounts, though.

Steve

Bradley Walker · « **Reply #21 on:** May 18, 2009, 08:00:22 AM »

The new T-Rex will accommodate side mounting. It has two piece mounts. The largest ones they had.

If you will notice the Europeans are mounting everything sidewinder these days. Eliminates assymetry and allows for a more outboard needle valve.

Rudy Taube · « **Reply #22 on:** May 18, 2009, 02:54:02 PM »

Hi Will,

That is one beautiful CL ship!

One thing I don't understand, how does the Saito process the electrons coming from your 5S 4,500 mAh battery?

?

If this is just the prototype, then I am really looking forward to seeing the next one!

Warm Regards,

Will Moore · « **Reply #23 on:** May 18, 2009, 03:23:18 PM »

Quote from: Rudy Taube on May 18, 2009, 02:54:02 PM

Hi Will,

That is one beautiful CL ship!

One thing I don't understand, how does the Saito process the electrons coming from your 5S 4,500 mAh battery??

If this is just the prototype, then I am really looking forward to seeing the next one!

Warm Regards,

It doesn't process electrons too well, that is the one thing I don't like about the Saito. It keeps
spitting out this sticky stuff all over the airplane and I have to clean it off after every flight. Bummer Man !

This slime must be the unprocessed electrons you're talking about. Oh well, I'll just hav eto put up with it.

Thanks for the kind words - actually, thanks to all who have commented about this ship.

All credit goes to John Ashford.

John Ashford · « **Reply #24 on:** May 19, 2009, 09:06:53 AM »

Good morning guys,

I wish to thank all who have posted regarding the Thunder Cloud and correct some of comments Will has posted about the design of the ship as well as answer some of the questions that have been asked.

The cowl is actually two Glad storage containers purchased at Wal-Mart. These come in all different brands and sizes so you have a pretty wide range of diameters and depth. A piece of 3/16th balsa was glued between the two pieces at the nose. The idea is not mine originally. Bill Wilson suggested it to me.

The paint is all Dupont chromabase automotive. Pearl White, metallic red, black and blue. After the vinyl name and numbers were applied the plane got two coats of clear pearl, also Dupont chromabase, and then the Clear coat.

Firewall is 5/16 or 3/8 aircraft ply (I don't remember which) with 1/2" triangle stock on the back side. 1/4" would probably been sufficient but I'm not used to dealing with planes over 40 sized and may have "overkilled" this part.

Nose/fuselage construction is formers, stringers and then 1/4 X 1/8 balsa strips. Sanded to shape and then 1/16th molded over this. It transitions from this to regular "box" construction at the rear of the canopy.
The design started with Will saying he wanted "something different" sort of a 30's Hughes Racer look and perform as well as a modern Open Nats/World Championship plane. The jury is still out on that but first flight reports indicate it just might be pretty good.

I want to also thank Bob Reeves and Richard Oliver for their suggestions as to how to set up the tank/engine configuration for best performance.

Later, John

Mike Palko · « **Reply #25 on:** May 19, 2009, 11:01:56 AM »

Hi Will,
I am glad to see your idea became a reality. I have to say I am with Rudy on this one, I am looking forward to ship number 2.

My first impression was it has the look of a Claus Makis design. I hope you take that as a compliment because Claus's designs are beautiful. It will be nice to finally meet you at Brodaks this year.

Mike

Will Moore · « **Reply #26 on:** May 19, 2009, 09:50:01 PM »

Quote from: Mike Palko on May 19, 2009, 11:01:56 AM

Hi Will,
I am glad to see your idea became a reality. I have to say I am with Rudy on this one, I am looking forward to ship number 2. My first impression was it has the look of a Claus Makis design. I hope you take that as a compliment because Claus's designs are beautiful. It will be nice to finally meet you at Brodaks this year.

Mike

Mike: I'm getting excited about Brodak, so I can see all you guys, and finally meet you !

I'll let you fly Thunder Cloud.

See you all there !