Author Topic: Need some help guys regarding leather fillets material. (Read 5695 times)

Andrew Borgogna · « **on:** March 01, 2012, 05:51:58 PM »

The help I need is where do you get it? I need some and have no idea where to get it.
Andy

Bill Little · « **Reply #1 on:** March 01, 2012, 06:35:08 PM »

Quote from: Andrew Borgogna on March 01, 2012, 05:51:58 PM

The help I need is where do you get it? I need some and have no idea where to get it.
Andy

Check with Walter Umland.

BIG Bear
RNMM/AMM

builditright · « **Reply #2 on:** March 01, 2012, 06:45:55 PM »

Thanks for the heads up Bill.

here's the link to my web page.

http://www.builtrightflyright.com/MiscPgs/leather/leatherfillets.htm

Mike Keville · « **Reply #3 on:** March 01, 2012, 06:52:15 PM »

Used to get them from the late Bill Sawyer. Looks like Walter now has them. They work great. Used them on the little 1/2A Scale A-26 (which you've seen too many times, but here it is again).

Larry Fernandez · « **Reply #4 on:** March 02, 2012, 10:00:50 AM »

Quote from: Andrew Borgogna on March 01, 2012, 05:51:58 PM

The help I need is where do you get it? I need some and have no idea where to get it.
Andy

Andy, have you tried Sig Epoxolite for wing fillets?
After my wings folded at the 2000 NATs, (stay out of this Brett and Ted) the only thing that held the plane together were the fillets.
I am completly sold on this stuff. Next time your at Warrens, take a look at the fillets on my PT-19. Give me a call sometime and we'll talk about it

Larry, Buttafucco Stunt Team

FLOYD CARTER · « **Reply #5 on:** March 02, 2012, 11:43:02 AM »

Bill Sawyer's widow should have the leather fillets. I bought a package less than a year ago.

Floyd

phil myers · « **Reply #6 on:** March 03, 2012, 10:12:34 AM »

Ok I'll bite, been wanting to know for ages;.... what are fillets? Phil

Larry Fernandez · « **Reply #7 on:** March 03, 2012, 01:01:57 PM »

Quote from: phil myers on March 03, 2012, 10:12:34 AM

Ok I'll bite, been wanting to know for ages;.... what are fillets? Phil

That pain in the ass radius between the fuselage and the wing.

Larry, Buttafucco Stunt Team

builditright · « **Reply #8 on:** March 03, 2012, 04:57:48 PM »

Quote from: phil myers on March 03, 2012, 10:12:34 AM

Ok I'll bite, been wanting to know for ages;.... what are fillets? Phil

This is what a properly installed Leather Fillet looks like installed

Larry Fernandez · « **Reply #9 on:** March 03, 2012, 06:33:42 PM »

Quote from: builditright on March 03, 2012, 04:57:48 PM

This is what a properly installed Leather Fillet looks like installed

And this is what properly applied a Sig Epoxolite fillet looks like.

builditright · « **Reply #10 on:** March 03, 2012, 08:17:15 PM »

Quote from: Larry Fernandez on March 03, 2012, 06:33:42 PM

And this is what properly applied a Sig Epoxolite fillet looks like.

got one with cartoons too..

phil myers · « **Reply #11 on:** March 04, 2012, 10:28:30 AM »

Thanks guys, now I know what I should have been doing on my finishes, but Haven't!! I'll know for my next build...Phil

Phil Spillman · « **Reply #12 on:** March 04, 2012, 03:42:51 PM »

Hay Phil, I've been using leather fillets since the 60's! They will prolong the life of any profile for many years especially if applied with epoxy slow cure glue! They used to be available in many sizes so you may want to inquire as to availability. I usually soak mine in epoxy but haven't as yet been able to get them to go around the very front to bottom of the wing! however I have found that cutting them off at the apex of the airfoil, right at the front edge of the wing curve, and bringing the bottom length right up to the top as close as possible will work just fine! Fill in any gaps with micro balloons and epoxy glue!

Leather fillets also cut down tremendously on vibration thus improving your engine's run!

Phil Spillman

phil myers · « **Reply #13 on:** March 05, 2012, 12:45:19 PM »

Phil, Thanks for the info, I've only been in the hobby a couple of years so I'm still learning some of the basics..I've just finished a 'Shoestring' and a Mercury 'Cobra' over the winter but without fillets! If not using leather (could leather boot laces be used?) what other materials could be used? Just wondering...

Phil

FLOYD CARTER · « **Reply #14 on:** March 05, 2012, 01:20:28 PM »

Soaking the leather fillets in plain water makes them very flexible, so they will go around the wing leading edge smoothly. Also, after gluing them (Ambroid), a round burnisher while still wet makes them nicely convave.

Floyd

Phil Spillman · « **Reply #15 on:** March 05, 2012, 08:13:34 PM »

Hi Phil, Back in the day I built a Shoestring, Carl Goldberg then Brodak now, and I proceeded to wearout two complete bellcrank sets! Of course I didn't bush mine then with brass tubing as I do now! That's a good strong profile to learn on and enjoy! I've just learned a thing or two as well from those other guys who commented after me! Hence:

Hay Floyd and Ty, I like your ideas of soaking the fillets with fluids other than epoxy however if one doesn't use thinner or acetone or something else like these two does the epoxy or glue soak into the leather and form a bond? If this simple addition of water or a thinner really does allow the glue to work I will definitely try this on my next profile! Thanks for the tip! And

Where does one find a round burnishing tool or something similar to it?

Sincerely,

Phil Spillman

Larry Renger · « **Reply #16 on:** March 05, 2012, 08:44:05 PM »

I got Andy hooked on leather! Kinky!!! Anyway, you soak the material in water to soften it up, and stick it down with old fashioned Amberoid or Sigment. I thin the material where it goes around the extreme nose of the airfoil, but then I am doing 1/2A models!. Yes you need a spherical tool to press the fillet into the joint to make it seat firmly and have a flillet-like look. Otherwise, it will just be an angular filler and not bond firmly to the wing and fuselage. I think it is more reliable and lighter than the epoxilite versions, but does have to be done carefully.

It ain't cheap! But I prefer it. How many models do you build in a year, anyway? (Except for the Buttafuco Stunt Team) Freeman Co. is the source of a wide variety of sizes. Do a Google search on Leather Fillet and you will find them.

Phil Spillman · « **Reply #17 on:** March 06, 2012, 09:35:25 AM »

Thank you Larry and Ty for you prompt reply! I check both thoughts/ sources right away!

Phil Spillman

FLOYD CARTER · « **Reply #18 on:** March 06, 2012, 11:59:42 AM »

I considered welding a rod to a ball bearing, but didn't have the right size ball bearing! So I looked around and found a nice smooth ball on one end of a glass cutter. Just look around. There are lots of possibilities!

Floyd

Bill Little · « **Reply #19 on:** March 06, 2012, 12:41:32 PM »

Quote from: phil myers on March 05, 2012, 12:45:19 PM

Phil, Thanks for the info, I've only been in the hobby a couple of years so I'm still learning some of the basics..I've just finished a 'Shoestring' and a Mercury 'Cobra' over the winter but without fillets! If not using leather (could leather boot laces be used?) what other materials could be used? Just wondering...

Phil

Hi Phil,

The actual leather fillets are triangular in shape, boot laces would not work in my opinion. The ball devices used to force the fillets into tight connections with the wing and fuselage also gives the leather a nice concave finish which looks like about any other fillet material.

Leather is probably the oldest fillet material and does a great job.

BIG Bear
RNMM/AMM

billbyles · « **Reply #20 on:** March 06, 2012, 04:12:30 PM »

Quote from: Larry Fernandez on March 02, 2012, 10:00:50 AM

Andy, have you tried Sig Epoxolite for wing fillets?
After my wings folded at the 2000 NATs, (stay out of this Brett and Ted) the only thing that held the plane together were the fillets.
I am completly sold on this stuff. Next time your at Warrens, take a look at the fillets on my PT-19. Give me a call sometime and we'll talk about it

Larry, Buttafucco Stunt Team

Oh, Larry...your PT19 got raffled off, but don't worry - we sold $47.00 worth of tickets (which we already spent on refreshments!)

Dennis Adamisin · « **Reply #21 on:** March 06, 2012, 04:34:52 PM »

Quote from: Larry Renger on March 05, 2012, 08:44:05 PM

I got Andy hooked on leather! Kinky!!! Anyway, you soak the material in water to soften it up, and stick it down with old fashioned Amberoid or Sigment. I thin the material where it goes around the extreme nose of the airfoil, but then I am doing 1/2A models!. Yes you need a spherical tool to press the fillet into the joint to make it seat firmly and have a flillet-like look. Otherwise, it will just be an angular filler and not bond firmly to the wing and fuselage. I think it is more reliable and lighter than the epoxilite versions, but does have to be done carefully.

It ain't cheap! But I prefer it. How many models do you build in a year, anyway? (Except for the Buttafuco Stunt Team) Freeman Co. is the source of a wide variety of sizes. Do a Google search on Leather Fillet and you will find them.

Larry:
You soak them in water then apply them WET using Sigment or Ambroid? If installing still wet, do you think Titebond or similar would also work?

I remember my dad using leather fillets a LONG time ago, he used to install them using contact cement. After he had some pop he started using other materials, eventually settling on Epoxolite which was bulletproof...

Has anyone successfully monocoted over leather fillets? Did you need Balsarite first?

Bill Little · « **Reply #22 on:** March 06, 2012, 05:10:59 PM »

I doubt I will ever get anymore Epoxylite since I have found Super Fil.................

WAY, WAY more easy to use and sand. And cheaper........

Bill

FLOYD CARTER · « **Reply #23 on:** March 06, 2012, 07:14:13 PM »

When "wet" doesn't mean dripping wet! "Damp" might be a better word. And Ambroid still works on wet leather. Another trick I have used is to wet the leather AFTER installing and glue is dried. You can still burnish it into a nice shape. Wet is simply easier to manipulate.

Floyd

Dennis Adamisin · « **Reply #24 on:** March 06, 2012, 07:48:56 PM »

Quote from: FLOYD CARTER on March 06, 2012, 07:14:13 PM

When "wet" doesn't mean dripping wet! "Damp" might be a better word. And Ambroid still works on wet leather. Another trick I have used is to wet the leather AFTER installing and glue is dried. You can still burnish it into a nice shape. Wet is simply easier to manipulate.

Floyd

Thanks Floyd. I was surprised that Ambroid would work holding the wet leather.

billbyles · « **Reply #25 on:** March 06, 2012, 11:16:33 PM »

Quote from: Larry Renger on March 05, 2012, 08:44:05 PM

I got Andy hooked on leather! Kinky!!! Anyway, you soak the material in water to soften it up, and stick it down with old fashioned Amberoid or Sigment. I thin the material where it goes around the extreme nose of the airfoil, but then I am doing 1/2A models!. Yes you need a spherical tool to press the fillet into the joint to make it seat firmly and have a flillet-like look. Otherwise, it will just be an angular filler and not bond firmly to the wing and fuselage. I think it is more reliable and lighter than the epoxilite versions, but does have to be done carefully.

It ain't cheap! But I prefer it. How many models do you build in a year, anyway? (Except for the Buttafuco Stunt Team) Freeman Co. is the source of a wide variety of sizes. Do a Google search on Leather Fillet and you will find them.

"Otherwise, it will just be an angular filler and not bond firmly to the wing and fuselage. I think it is more reliable and lighter than the epoxilite versions, but does have to be done carefully."

I attach my leather fillets with "Sigment" since it is clear in color, and I just apply a bead of glue all around the wing root/fuselage joint. I then press the fillet into place with my fingers and have found no need to use a ball burnishing tool to get the rounded transition from fuselage to wing - the leather just lays down and the edges feather out so that no further filling is necessary. I also don't soak the leather fillet in anything; it is plenty flexible as is. I do, however, lightly scuff the outside face of the fillet with about 400 grit sandpaper to open the surface for a better bond with the first coat of Sigment.

I also trim the fillet at the trailing edge of the wing on top & bottom so that it transitions out to nothing at the back end. As soon as the fillet is in place I apply a bead of Sigment on top of the fillet & rub it in with my fingers; the glue soaks into the leather & provides a terrific bond to the butyrate dope applied for finishing so that there are no bubbles in the fillet areas. I have not had any problem with the leather being flexible enough to pull around the leading edge. Leather fillets are about the easiest fillets I have ever seen to apply and I take only about 20 minutes to install left & right hand wing root fillets, including trimming the trailing edge of the fillets.

I have never had any cracking problems with the leather fillets, and I try to build the wings so that the fillets don't have to hold the airplane together due to wing failure (sorry Larry Fernandez, nyuk, nyuk!)

Larry Renger · « **Reply #26 on:** March 07, 2012, 08:25:13 AM »

Don't forget, Bill, I build a LOT smaller planes than you do! Thus the wetting and greater difficulty at the leading edge.

And I agree that bubbling and separation just don't happen with properly done leather fillets. Plus, they are really quite light.