Props AKA Airscrews

[Peter Nevai]

Nylon, Glass Filled, Beech Wood, Maple, Carbon Fiber, Fiber Glass, Wide blade, Paddle blade, Scimitar Blade, Power point, Extra Wide etc. The list goes on and on. For some unbeknownst reason, I like wood props, I really don't know why, perhaps it's because back in the day the plastic variety were pretty crappy. Remember those white nylon Top Flite props? I learned to hate them, the vibrated, flexed, and had a nasty habit of throwing blades. Graupners were better if you could find them. Tornado props were OK if you could find them in the right sizes (Never could find the 10 inch 3 blade tractors) But you could always count on wood, especially the TF Super M.

I kind of considered props as consumables, as flying off natural surfaces always presented hazards like a hiden rock in the grass etc or sand and pebbles flying off of dirt surfaces. Then there was the inevitable nose in when the LG caught a weed etc. (Although you learned to mount your prop so when the engine quite the prop would stop in the horizontal position, I wonder how many still use that trick) Anywho Seems like there is a limited choice  for wood props in the right size and I wonder how you would compare a prop of similar size and pitch between CF and wood. The weight of the spinning mass would be different so the loading is different. Is it pretty much near 1 for 1?

Also amongst the wood props, anyone have comments? Any good, better, worse?

You have XOAR PJA 12 X 4
Zinger Pro 12 X 4
Zinger std 12 X 4

In this size that is about it unless anyone knows of others.

I plan on getting at least 1 CF 12.25 X 4.3 or so props, but for everyday I still like wood, especially if debris is a factor (flying from Dirt or Sandy surfaces like is prevelent in Florida)

[Mark Scarborough]

My two cents worth,
the zinger pro is a great prop kit, theres enough meat there to change the actual pitch a couple inches either way, but to run it as is, I have never had good luck, its rather clunky thickness wise.
There is also a Top Flight Powerpoint, but I think I would start with a 13x5, and rework it down to 12, I am not a fan of the slashed tips on the power points,
The biggest problem is finding wood props that have good grain,, and are machined consistantlly,,

There is another prop out there, called "Vess" they make them in a similar size
Also RSM makes a wood prop, and Brodaks ans the BY&O props,, Vess and Xoar are the best MADE props I have seen, dead consistant, and balanced right out of hte package virtually every time
http://www.vesspropellers.com/servlet/the-Sport-Series-Props/Categories

[Wynn Robins]

the HAWK wood props are pretty good too - for the money anyways - also JXF wood.....the JXF even come in electric versions

[Dwayne]

My two cents worth,
the zinger pro is a great prop kit, theres enough meat there to change the actual pitch a couple inches either way, but to run it as is, I have never had good luck, its rather clunky thickness wise.
There is also a Top Flight Powerpoint, but I think I would start with a 13x5, and rework it down to 12, I am not a fan of the slashed tips on the power points,
The biggest problem is finding wood props that have good grain,, and are machined consistantlly,,

There is another prop out there, called "Vess" they make them in a similar size
Also RSM makes a wood prop, and Brodaks ans the BY&O props,, Vess and Xoar are the best MADE props I have seen, dead consistant, and balanced right out of hte package virtually every time
http://www.vesspropellers.com/servlet/the-Sport-Series-Props/Categories

Thanks for the link but once again no 5 pitch props they are hard to find, power point has a 10X5 but no 11" or 12" Zinger has 5 pitch props.

[Steve Helmick]

Just the opposite for me. I've seldom found joy with wood props, except for the old TF Speed Props...for a different event than stunt or sport. I've found some hope with extinct Rev-Ups, but can't see the logic of using something I can't replace. They are interesting only because they might show performance improvements are possible... encourages me to keep testing more props.  IF I found a wood prop that really worked, I'd be looking for a CF copy, probably leaning on Steve Wilk or ZZProp to produce it.

The better plastic props are generally much better. Thunder Tiger Cyclones and Graupners are my fav's, but APC does have many more useful sizes. I'm not afraid of the higher weight, and certainly not disgusted by the color or blade shape. I have sometimes noticed that a CG tweek is appropriate, leading to a leadout adjustment.   Steve

[Paul Taylor]

If you like wood props you should see what Charlie Reeves or Jim Lynch do to there wooden props. They fix the hubs so you can not crush them when you crank them down on the engine. Looks very cool.

[Pat Johnston]

I poluted my buddy Mark (above) into working on wood props by cleaning them up and checking/altering the pitch.  I believe that a well done wood prop is as good as anyother prop available.  You just need to invest a little time in them.  The Zinger series as Mark indicates is a good prop kit.  Not all that good stock, but cleaned up with elliptical tips can be as good as anything. 
Years ago in Stunt News, Tom Dixon made a point that an extra 1/2" or so could be run with a cleaned up wood prop.  We find this to be true.  By cleaning up the edges on a wood prop similar to the APC props (sharp), the prop has a lot of paracitic drag taken away and can put the horsepower of the engine into thrust instead of just overcoming the drag of a prop.
A couple of days ago I sent David Gresens a 14-5 BY&O that I cleaned up for his "Shadow Cat".  He was running one like that which I did a few years back and only had one.  A backup prop is always a good idea.
Be advised that with nice sharp trailing edges on a prop, a chicken stick whacking the bejebers out of a good wood prop is just flat stupid.  Use an electric starter and save the prop if you are not comfortable hand flipping the prop.
Pat Johnston
Prop Retreading
Skunk Works

[Peter Nevai]

In the end wood look nicer, especially on a pretty full fuse model. I don't know about preventing compression of the wood at the hub though. The compressed wood aids in keeping the prop nut tight, Unless the material they use also has give to it, you would have to go with some locking nut or compression washer to secure the prop nut and who needs the extra weight way out in the nose and the additional rotational mas, as little as it may be. Considering at times we put sandpaper and some other friction material under the prop washer to keep it from spinning, it seems that having a hard central hub would be counter productive.

Kind of cool but is it really worth the effort. But I'm one of "If it aint broke don't fix it" kind of guys. Now if you are running at some insane RPM, well then that a whole different animal.

[Mark Scarborough]

  A backup prop is always a good idea.
Be advised that with nice sharp trailing edges on a prop, a chicken stick whacking the bejebers out of a good wood prop is just flat stupid.  Use an electric starter and save the prop if you are not comfortable hand flipping the prop.
Pat Johnston
Prop Retreading
Skunk Works

Pat,, yeah backup props are a great idea!!! sigh,, well I have one now anyway,, probably wont ever need it, but I have it,,

[Howard Rush]

Just check your line clips.

[Mark Scarborough]

Howard,,
thanks 

[dirty dan]

Fiddling with props, even wood props, is fine. Especially as one quite quickly learns how much he doesn't know about props!

But my advice is to always have a baseline for comparisons. And there are no better props to use in this regard than those from the APC line.

Dan

[Pat Johnston]

The Dirt is right about the APC props.  Spectacular base line prop.  We have used this base line and carved wood props which approximate the prop area and pitch with very good results.  One difference between the wood props and the APC versions is that the APC's can be up to three times as heavy as the wood versions.  This makes a noticeable difference in Gyroscopic Procession (GP).  The big disadvantage of increased GP is loose lines on the 45 degree outside corners.  Also in the top of the Hourglass.
Pat Johnston
Skunk Works

[dirty dan]

Yes, APC props are heavier than wood props. However, it helps to note where much of this extra weight is located. Right at the hub and flaring into the roots of blades.

The actual blades are pretty thin, meaning a lot less weight than is being assumed by many who are only looking at the readout on a scale.

Pat--Please tell your wife how much we appreciated the patriotic cupcakes--each with a US flag!--during the 2011 NWR. Outstanding! You clearly "married up!"

Dan

[Pat Johnston]

Dirt!
I appreciate the vote of approval for Annette.  I certainly know just how much I married up.  Only wonder about Annette's sanity in this matter.  Who cares?  At least she is happy, other than getting over the broken arm business.  That floating piece of bone still makes noise.  Kind on nasty.  Hopefully by the end of the summer, she will be in better shape.
As always it was good seeing you at the NW Regionals.  Have a good summer.  You are a great friend.
Pat Johnston
Skunk Works

[john e. holliday]

A broken arm?  Did I miss something somewhere.  You had better take care of her, as I understand it, if she puts up with you, you have a keeper.

[Mark Scarborough]

Doc,
Pat is pretty easy to put up with,, its all of Pats FRIENDS that she has to put up with, now THAT'S a challenge,,,