Need help - how to master inverted flight.

[Maurice Bishop]

Dear All,

I am struggling to get to grips with inverted flight.

I'm using an Acromaster (OS15) and a Super Clown (ASP 25), both of which seem to perform OK.

I am 'comfortable' with regular/outside loops and lazy 8's but flying inverted - flat, level, five feet off the deck and with confidence seems to be difficult for me.

How should I be approaching the subject? Is it more of a mental challenge or is it a case of just practice, practice, practice, crash and rebuild?

Is there a methodology I should use to better my confidence?

TX in advance

Maurice

[Tom Rounds]

When I was learning to fly inverted I would do a lazy 8 and just keep stretching them out further and further until I was doing almost half a circle. I also lead with the down line while I am inverted.
Good Luck.
Tom

[Steve Helmick]

The Expert fliers (not me) say you should keep your hand upright, as you normally fly upright. Don't learn any bad habits that you'll need to suffer with or correct, later. For some reason, I tended to roll my right hand about 35 deg. counter clockwise...it took some conscious effort to cure myself of that, but eventually, I did.


I expect you can use "search" and find several threads on the subject of "Inverted" or "Learning Inverted".  My own experience was one airplane busted trying, and that ended the crashing (inverted crashing, that is!).  It's a mental thing! Get used to the idea that the next input you give will be 'down' to go up. Yes, I can give slight control corrections, and get away with it, but my head is always telling me to give down if things get hairy. "Dry Flying" would be highly productive in the pursuit of this skill. Yes, close the curtains, and wait until others are gone, even if you have to pay $ to send them to a movie... Steve 

[Brett Buck]

Dear All,

I am struggling to get to grips with inverted flight.

I'm using an Acromaster (OS15) and a Super Clown (ASP 25), both of which seem to perform OK.

I am 'comfortable' with regular/outside loops and lazy 8's but flying inverted - flat, level, five feet off the deck and with confidence seems to be difficult for me.

How should I be approaching the subject? Is it more of a mental challenge or is it a case of just practice, practice, practice, crash and rebuild?

Is there a methodology I should use to better my confidence?

     Fly over grass, make sure that your needle valve can't break off easily, and then just accept that you are going to crash - a lot - before you get comfortable.
   
     Brett

[Randy Powell]

When I learned, many moons ago, I just extended the top of an inside loop. Fly to the top of the loop then level out for a quarter circle then complete the loop. keep extending it until you complete a lap. Eventually, you get the hang of it.

[minnesotamodeler]

Stretching out a lazy eight, as Tom said, is by far the most effective way to do it.  You're already thinking "down" on the backside of the eight, just let it go further and further before completing it...soon you'll be going a full lap inverted, still no risk. 

[John Miller]

Years ago, I learned, and eventually mastered inverted flight with the use of a good 1/2A. It was a simple Scientific All american Boy. Over grass, it usually bounced when the enevitable happened.

Extending the lazy eights was the method for me. It's a natural extension. After a while, the control reversal comes naturally and, for me at least, occurs relative to the direction of flight. Of course, this mans I have extreme difficulty when trying to fly a plane set up for clockwise flying, unless I reverse the handle.

[Jim Kraft]

After crashing my Jr. Ringmaster Fox 15 a jillion times, I learned a trick that really helped. I put my thumb on the top of the handle and told myself that it was the panic button. Then I would do lazy eights to inverted, and if the plane got to low I just pushed the "panic" button and the plane would do the outside back to right side up. It was not long until I could do a half lap inverted, and then full laps. I never again crashed inverted after using the panic button.


I forgot to mention that learning that way also kept me from turning the handle sideways, and to this day I still hold the handle verticle through everything.

[roger]

you can allways fly scale

[ray copeland]

Put in two flights today , during which both flights i finally got a couple of laps inverted with my hand held vertically!! This is a big accomplishment for me as i learned inverted flying sort of self taught with my hand held horizontal. Holding my hand horizontal when inverted just came natural for me and it is very hard to change, but it is something i want to do!! My advice is ,  lots of practice, i am still learning but seem to be getting better, i guess like anything else you just have to "pay your dues". Great advice about building a plane just for inverted training, that just may be my next project. Skids on top and bottom , but what about nose first? 

[billbyles]

Put in two flights today , during which both flights i finally got a couple of laps inverted with my hand held vertically!! This is a big accomplishment for me as i learned inverted flying sort of self taught with my hand held horizontal. Holding my hand horizontal when inverted just came natural for me and it is very hard to change, but it is something i want to do!! My advice is ,  lots of practice, i am still learning but seem to be getting better, i guess like anything else you just have to "pay your dues". Great advice about building a plane just for inverted training, that just may be my next project. Skids on top and bottom , but what about nose first? 

Just put a rubber spinner on it.

[Clayton Berry]

you can allways fly scale

That was mean.

I'd suggest that someone just flew lazy eights.  Most of the flight.  Heck, if you've got a bad leg or a hip, it's even easier.  Just stand there.  I'd just hang out on the down wind side of the circle.  A lot.  Stretch it around the circle (inverted) occasionally, and spend some more time downwind, doing lazy eights and inside and outside loops.  You have to drop the idea that there's upright and inverted - there's just an airplane out there.  That'll do things equally well, inside or out, inverted or not.

Well, unless it's a scale airplane.  Pretend I didn't say that.  Some of my best friends fly scale.  I've even heard of folks that fly speed.  As if they know how to fly inverted.

But the combat guys?  There is no upright or inverted.  They know.

[Larry Fulwider]

Put in two flights today , during which both flights i finally got a couple of laps inverted with my hand held vertically!! . . .

Great! (I gave up on giving up on that and two other habits)

Alex has joined the "MCLS Upside Down Gang", and I was glad to see he is also a vertical hand guy.

Hey, brag a little and change your signature line to something more appropriate, like maybe?

"You don't think that I can,
When you look at my hand,
But watch my plane fly,
With the Wheels Towards the Sky!

Larry Fulwider

[ray copeland]

Larry, i took your advice on the signature!  See ya soon,,,  yu poet!! 

[taildragger-j3]

VERY MUCH still working on this skill, but I've tried to forget about "down is up" etc. and just practice using the handle to point the nose in the way I want it to go whether right side up, upside down or going vertical.

[Russell Shaffer]

Check the Platter thread - a basically free airplane is nice.  It is what  I relearned on, and it wouldn't be very hard to side mount the engine so a guy wouldn't ding up the head on inverted landings.  It really helped me to know that I wasn't going to tear up something that looked nice and took hours of work to build.  Now that I am better, I just go out and bang up my Flite Streaks.  Some day I may get good enough to fly something with a full fuselage and a nice finnish.

[frank carlisle]

You can only go up or down. How hard can that be? Watch the plane. Steer it. 

[phil c]

Taildragger has the right idea.  Forget down and up and just fly a LOT until you can make the plane go where you want to regardless of which way the handle is angled or which way the plane is going.  Do it over grass, like Brett says, with a plane that can take an inverted landing.  Your best bet is an old, foam wing slow combat plane.  Look up the SC-2 in Flying Models from 1979. With a replaceable wing and a bullet proof fuselage that plane would last forever. 

[john e. holliday]

As someone stated earlier, " Combat guys/gals have no up or down once airborne".  Phil forgot to mention his little "Hacker" 1/2A that is another good one.  Especially over tall grass.  I learned inverted doing lazy 8's until I had it stretched out to a full lap.  Pick fairly calm days to do it. DOC Holliday

[dirty dan]

I have mentioned this before. Alas, no one seems to try it...

But if I were having difficulty learning to fly inverted I would build a "whip plane," one which incorporates an elevator, 'crank, two lines and a rudimentary handle.

There is the problem of family and friends noticing your whirling dervish routine, but this sort of learning process and this sort of model make a lot of sense to me.

Does anyone know if Rich Porter's site is still up? I have seen him do (almost) a full pattern with a whip plane he designed and--at least at one time--was on his web site.

Dan

[Elwyn Aud]

Don't know what all is there but here's the website-

http://community-2.webtv.net/RICHARDPORTER2/UNDEFEATEDFORMER/