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Author Topic: Someone has some explaining to do!  (Read 13272 times)

steven yampolsky

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Re: Someone has some explaining to do!
« Reply #100 on: November 13, 2012, 01:23:04 PM »
I think its pretty common now.   The LSA Evektor I fly has an MPH ASI.

In 1969, FAA mandated that all certified aircraft have to use knots. The experimental and LSA markets can use whatever units the piltot wants.

We, as in USA nation, are very resistant to change when it comes to units. The world lives in happy oblivion with the metric system while we abuse our children when we make them learn fractions, inches, mph's and ounces. I think Evektor's marketing folk think they can get a better US market penetration if they sell us aircraft with mph.


Offline GonzoBonzo

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Re: Someone has some explaining to do!
« Reply #101 on: November 13, 2012, 03:01:05 PM »
Makes sense.  I must have been really cookin' on final in that 172.  Thought it was 70MPH, not Knts.   #^  55 to 60 MPH for the Evektor BTW.

Gonzo
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Offline Ted Fancher

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Re: Someone has some explaining to do!
« Reply #102 on: November 14, 2012, 09:59:20 AM »
You can tell an "oldtimer" by the fact that they still use MPH. My 172 POH and the checklist are both in knots. LL~


Yup,Steve,

You've got the "old timer" part right  but I didn't "type" what I posted, the entries were cut and pasted from a 1975 POH for the then current regs. 

I'm much more comfortable speaking in knots, as well, but also realize that the subject matter addressed by Aviojet had little to do with the 0.15% difference between Knots and MPH but, rather, the additional wear and tear on the airframe coerced onto the airframe by a pilot foolish enough to use POH approved "normal" landing practices that constitute a airspeed increase well within the noise factor from highest to lowest normal approach.  I also concur, by the way, with Brett as to the  potential abuse to which the airframe may be subjected to by the use of high drag flap configurations.  The biggest risk to a zero flap approach and landing is the exposure to excessive "float" in the flare increasing the total landing distance (short field situations), not a hard touchdown.  With zero flaps it is very easy to over rotate in the flare and experience a balloon (float down the runway).  Not good, of course, but the low drag configuration improves the potential for a "non-event" recovery. 

The actual risk of an unexpectedly  hard touchdown is much greater as flaps are extended if, for instance, the flare is high and the pilot tries to hold the nose high in hopes of salvaging the landing but instead causes it to stall and impact terra firma in an unintended fashion due to the high drag rapidly depleting the airspeed and allowing the aircraft to stall.  The only viable solution to such a situation is to add sufficient power to prevent the stall and re-establish an appropriate glide path to touchdown...all of which, of course, flies in the face of the valid reason for using flaps which is to shorten the landing distance on minimum runways.  In addition, the greater the flap setting the more aggressive the addition of power must be to prevent an ooops! event from following.

Although doing so would, perhaps, not be my preferred method it is entirely possible that the pilot's instructor opted to train him to this point using only the "normal" no flaps approach and landing techniques so as to minimize the need for situational evaluation that might have proved distracting and confusing during this "one time in your life" first solo flight.  Such an approach from the instructor is a fully supportable one and the fact that an "experienced" SUV chose for whatever reason to drive in front of the airplane at a less than propitious moment.

As an analyst for the NASA Aviation Safety Reporting System since early  2003 I've analyzed reports of hundreds of reports of faulty landing techniques that have resulted in a variety of imperfect outcomes.  I'd have to say the events at Roanoke would, however, have been pretty unique and, despite my 60 odd years of experience I would be very reluctant to pretend to assign blame based on what is available.  The one thing I'd be pretty sure of is that a student pilot on his first solo flight probably (and properly) had his/her full attention on just pointing the nose in the right direction and getting safely on the runway.  I would never expect his/her situational awareness to be expanded to the same degree as that of myself or, perhaps...although the jury is still out, Aviojet.  The man had his hands and mind "full".

One thing I do believe I can say is that the event itself is neither qualifying or disqualifying proof of the student's ultimate skills but is certainly a result of a less than perfect relationship of the physical facilities at his place of learning.  Blame could, perhaps, be assigned to those responsible for that state of imperfection but would be too little too late...although doing so has become a way of life for attorneys at law.esq types.

Ted

Offline dale gleason

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Re: Someone has some explaining to do!
« Reply #103 on: November 14, 2012, 10:45:35 AM »
Channel 11, locally, ran an update last night, a new tape, it seems. The field is not controlled, so a video would be a "tower cam ", similar to the Tulsa GlueDobbers' webcam, by Bob Reeves. I've not seen this new tape, and cannot find it, perhaps someone with more familiarity with searching for such stuff can locate it?  

A club of fellows nearby belong to a knot- tying fraternity, they compete in "knots per hour". It's strictly for those with a lot of time on their hands.....I think many of us would make good candidates.

dg

Edit: I realized my "knots per hour" comment was out of place, so I turned myself in to the moderator. Guess what....one cannot turn oneself in to the moderator, says it make "no sense"!  I apologize, my comment should be moved to the fishin' line thread.....
« Last Edit: November 14, 2012, 12:44:50 PM by dale gleason »

Online john e. holliday

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Re: Someone has some explaining to do!
« Reply #104 on: November 14, 2012, 12:27:03 PM »
What is sad is the young pilot says he is done with flying.  I hope he chages his mind.  I put flaps on an RC plane just to see what the difference in flying the plne would be.   Boy what a learning curve.  As I dropped the flaps I had to feed in down elevator.  Did not mess with the trim on the transmitter.  Amazing how fast a plane drops vertically with full flaps.   Had to pull flaps backup and give power until I learned what I was trying to do.  Then and now I know why I let someone else do the driving on the real planes.  Even flaps on a controlline carrier need getting used to.   I don't think the guys use flaps while in the haning mode on low speed flight.
John E. "DOC" Holliday
10421 West 56th Terrace
Shawnee, KANSAS  66203
AMA 23530  Have fun as I have and I am still breaking a record.

Bruce Shipp

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Re: Someone has some explaining to do!
« Reply #105 on: November 15, 2012, 12:05:47 AM »
After 10 years of civi flying followed by 16 years instructing for the USAF in "knotted" jets, I finally sat for my civilian CFI rating in 2004.  During the half day oral exam, I was quick to explain to my examiner that I referenced knots all day at work while the Piper Arrow we would be flying was calibrated in MPH.    I told him during our time together he could expect to hear me use both terms interchangeably and accordingly miles per hour and knots should be considered synonymous; both should be interpreted as "airspeed units" as represented on the airspeed indicator. 

He chuckled and said he thought he could manage that.

Offline Chris Cox

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Re: Someone has some explaining to do!
« Reply #106 on: February 23, 2013, 08:54:22 AM »

Online Dan McEntee

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Re: Someone has some explaining to do!
« Reply #107 on: February 23, 2013, 09:01:43 AM »
   And as it should be. Very cool!
    Dan McEntee
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AMA 480405 (American Motorcyclist Association)

Online john e. holliday

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Re: Someone has some explaining to do!
« Reply #108 on: February 23, 2013, 10:10:04 AM »
That is great the Mr. Davis got back to it and got his certificate.   Dad always said, "When you fall off a horse, get back on if you can, asap".   That is what I had to do when I had my motorcycle accident many years ago.  When I finally got back on my feet, which was several months, my brother brought the bike over after we put it back together.   He said now ride it.   Yes I as a little apprehensive about it, but, then again I remember very little of the accident.
John E. "DOC" Holliday
10421 West 56th Terrace
Shawnee, KANSAS  66203
AMA 23530  Have fun as I have and I am still breaking a record.

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