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Author Topic: Solid lead out music wire??? What size for a .35 size engine  (Read 1959 times)

Offline Paul Taylor

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I am going to put solid leadout on my Scrapper.

Anyone know what size music wire I need?

Thanks
Paul  H^^
Paul
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Tight Lines = Fun Times

Dave Adamisin

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Re: Solid lead out music wire??? What size for a .35 size engine
« Reply #1 on: July 20, 2008, 12:57:16 PM »
I am going to put solid leadout on my Scrapper.

Anyone know what size music wire I need?

Thanks
Paul  H^^
We always used 1/32. They were good to go even in 160mph rats back in the day..

Offline rustler

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Re: Solid lead out music wire??? What size for a .35 size engine
« Reply #2 on: July 20, 2008, 01:27:31 PM »
In that whatever size wire you use it will be much thicker than the wire you fly on, the critical factor is the way you make the sort of ends.
Ian Russell.
[I can remember the schedule o.k., the problem is remembering what was the last manoeuvre I just flew!].

Offline Paul Taylor

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Re: Solid lead out music wire??? What size for a .35 size engine
« Reply #3 on: July 20, 2008, 02:40:42 PM »
In that whatever size wire you use it will be much thicker than the wire you fly on, the critical factor is the way you make the sort of ends.

And what would you suggest for the ends?

Pictures would be nice.
Paul  H^^
Paul
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Offline Charlie Pate

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Re: Solid lead out music wire??? What size for a .35 size engine
« Reply #4 on: July 20, 2008, 02:46:09 PM »
 Why?
I honestly can,t think of a good reason.
I know of several Expert (names you would know)flyers that lost planes to broken solids.
Lememteen folks will jump up and say." I used them and never had a problem".
O.K. fine,me too!; But no longer.
I have been told that the quality of music wire has gotten lousey.
I know that it makes your plane about two inches wider when placing in the car.
You bend one, you got to straighten it or your controls suffer.
Bend the turns too tight and get a stress riser.
If its to save weight ; there are many other things you can do to save weight that are a lesser gamble
to the future of your plane.
 Just the picture as I see it and really trying to be helpful. H^^

Offline Paul Taylor

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Re: Solid lead out music wire??? What size for a .35 size engine
« Reply #5 on: July 20, 2008, 03:03:27 PM »
Hey guys,
This is going is a small foam wing that will be used as a combat trainer for Ryan. I figure the life might be short lived. Anyway the strainded cable might act like a saw more then the solid wire will.

I guess either way will not matter. Just thought the solid wire would be easer to do in the foam wing and quicker.

Thanks
Paul  H^^
Paul
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Tight Lines = Fun Times

Offline Ralph Wenzel (d)

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Re: Solid lead out music wire??? What size for a .35 size engine
« Reply #6 on: July 20, 2008, 03:14:53 PM »
As long as it's just a trainer, Paul, why not just make the entire control system exposed? Simpler, and ready access for repairs if anything does go wrong.

Ralph
(Too many irons; not enough fire)

Ralph Wenzel
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Offline dave siegler

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Re: Solid lead out music wire??? What size for a .35 size engine
« Reply #7 on: July 20, 2008, 07:18:20 PM »
a lot of guys for combat stuff just use external contols.  You can put the clips right on the belcrank then and tread the lines through a leadout guide and hook right up to the belcrank.  You just eliminated 4 potential failire points. 

To answer your question, 1/32 will be fine, the trick is to make a round smooth loop that has no kninks in it.  Round nose pliers are reccomended.  I never was happy with the results and used cable. 

cable won't saw through the foam wing, you have a plywood leadout guide. 

Make it easy on yourself and use external controls.

Looking forward to next sunday.   

Dave Siegler
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Offline EddyR

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Re: Solid lead out music wire??? What size for a .35 size engine
« Reply #8 on: July 21, 2008, 06:25:34 AM »
 A little history on solid leadouts might help. In the 40-50's when we were using soft metal bellcranks flex leadouts would cut into the bell crank and  the control s would not feel smooth. Eventually this would cause failure of the bellcrank or leadout. Some one will say they have 300 flights on there 1950's control system  and it is fine,well good for them. The answer to the problem was use solid leadouts and the controls lasted a lot longer. When better bellcranks came out I continued to use solid leadouts for many years. I had a solid leadout break at a contest and it broke at the center not at a end. Solids give a very smooth feel but they have all the problems mentioned above.Also they make a lot of noise in a plastic covered wing. Stainless steel fishing leader can be bought inexpensive and makes good leadout cable.
Ed
Locust NC 40 miles from the Huntersville field

Offline Michael Brooks

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Re: Solid lead out music wire??? What size for a .35 size engine
« Reply #9 on: July 21, 2008, 07:48:21 AM »
Paul,

For what it's worth, I used 1/32 on the red Skyray. Now that I know how to bush a "nylon" bellcrank, I won't use solid leadouts again. If you bend one, it's a major pain to fix (had to do it twice, no, three times- Once during construction because I bent one in the wrong place.). What you might want to do is mount the bellcrank externally, put good clips on the bellcrank and hook the lines to the bellcrank without leadouts. I picked up some well used slow combat planes from Larry King as trainers for my boy way back when and that was the way Larry had done it. Never had a problem and Damon was always hard on equipment.

Mike
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Offline FLOYD CARTER

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Re: Solid lead out music wire??? What size for a .35 size engine
« Reply #10 on: July 21, 2008, 03:12:59 PM »
Yeah.  Others have discovered that solid leadouts get bent at the wingtip, from loading them into and out of the car.  Mine (on a Chief OTS) have been bent and straightened so many times, that I wonder how many more bends they will stand!

Floyd in OR
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Offline Guy B Jr

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Re: Solid lead out music wire??? What size for a .35 size engine
« Reply #11 on: July 23, 2008, 12:04:04 AM »
For the ends of the solid leadouts: I grew up fishing in Ft. Lauderdale along with my flying. I always made the ends the same way I made up the fishing leaders. Just use a 1/4" dowel instead of a hook to make the loop smooth, then wrap the wire back around the leadout 10 to 12 turns, then twist the end off for a smooth finish. Never had one to break and they were used on combat and rat. Use both solid and stranded today, just depends on my mood and the wingspan (vs. car width).
Guy Blankinship

Offline rustler

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Re: Solid lead out music wire??? What size for a .35 size engine
« Reply #12 on: July 25, 2008, 01:58:47 PM »
And what would you suggest for the ends?

Pictures would be nice.
Paul  H^^

Hi Paul. Sadly no camera yet. However, for any dia. a straight loop back on itself, bound with thin wire and soldered, (silver solder, not soft), like leadout ends, should do it. This would give a closed end. I always melt the solder on the end of an iron, and as soon as it melts stop heating. Then dip the ends in the solder. I always get good joints like tis and never heat the wire above the melting temp. of solder.
As you get to dia's. like the 1/32 mentioned, you can form a clip which can be closed and opened as needed. The clip will hold the loop closed against the pull trying to open it. Sorry it's not better described.
Ian Russell.
[I can remember the schedule o.k., the problem is remembering what was the last manoeuvre I just flew!].


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