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General control line discussion => Open Forum => Topic started by: RC Storick on April 13, 2009, 06:42:08 AM
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Is this list correct?
2008
ORESTES A HERNANDEZ
Shark
Discovery-Retro 60
Muncie IN
2007
ORESTES A HERNANDEZ
Shark
Discovery-Retro 60
Muncie IN
2006
BRETT W BUCK
Infinity
RO-Jett 61 BSE
Muncie IN
2005
Paul Walker
For Reals
OS 40 VF
Muncie IN
2004
Dave Fitzgerald
Star Gazer IV
PA 65
Muncie IN
2003
Dave Fitzgerald
Star Gazer IV
PA 65
Muncie IN
2002
Paul Walker
P-51 Miss America
Saito 56
Muncie IN
2001
Dave Fitzgerald
Star Gazer IV
PA 61
2000
Ted Fancher
Final Edition
PA 61
Muncie IN
1999
Dave Fitzgerald
Star Gazer III
PA 61
Muncie IN
1998
Paul Walker
Impact
OS 40 VF
Muncie IN
1997
Dave Fitzgerald
Star Gazer I
PA 61
Muncie IN
1996
Bob Baron
Pattern Master
Super Tigre 60
Muncie IN
1995
Ted Fancher
Great Expectation
OS 46 VF
Pasco WA
1994
Paul Walker
Impact
PA 40
Lubbock TX
1993
Paul Walker
Impact
OS 40 VF
Vincennes IN
1992
Paul Walker
Impact
OS 40 VF
Westover AFB MA
1991
Paul Walker
For Reals?
OS 40 VF
Vincennes IN
1990
Paul Walker
Impact
OS 40 VF
Vincennes IN
1989
Jim Casale
Spectron-Columbia
Super Tigre 60
Pasco WA
1988
Jim Casale
Spectron-Columbia
Super Tigre 60
Tidewater VA
1987
Paul Walker
Bad News IV
Super Tigre 60
Lincoln NE
1986
Ted Fancher
Citation V
Super Tigre 46
Lake Charles LA
1985
Jim Casale
Spectrum Mk III '85
Super Tigre 60
Westover AFB MA
1984
Paul Walker
Bad News I
OS 45 FSR
Reno NV
1983
Jim Casale
Spectrum Mk III
Super Tigre 60
Westover AFB MA
1982
Ted Fancher
Intimidation
Super Tigre 46
Lincoln NE
1981
Bill Werwage
USA-1
Super Tigre 46
Seguin TX
1980
Les McDonald
Stiletto 660
K&B 40
Wilmington OH
1979
Bob Gieseke
Gieseke Nobler
Fox 35
Lincoln NE
1978
Bob Whitely
Derringer
Super Tigre 46
Lake Charles LA
1977
Al Rabe
P-51 Mustang
Riverside CA
1976
Bob Hunt
Genesis Mk III
Super Tigre 46
Dayton OH
1975
Bob Gieseke
Gieseke Nobler
Fox 35
Lake Charles LA
1974
Bob Gieseke
Gieseke Nobler
Fox 35
Lake Charles LA
1973
Al Rabe
Sea fury
Super Tigre 60
Oshkosh WI
1972
Dennis Adamisin
Fouga Magister
OS Max-S 35
Glenview Il
1971
Bill Werwage
USA-1
Super Tigre 40
Glenview Il
1970
Keith Trostle
Focke-Wolf
OS Max 35
Glenview IL
1969
Bob Lampione
F-86 Sabre
Fox 35
Willow Grove PA
1968
Bob Gieseke
Gieseke Nobler
Fox 35
Olathe KS
1967
Barton Klapinski
Tempest
McCoy 40
Los Alamitos CA
1966
Bob Gieseke
Gieseke Nobler
Fox 35
Glenview Il
1965
Bob Gialdini
Eclipse
Veco 45
Willow Grove PA
1964
Jim Silhavy
Nobler
Fox 35
Dallas TX
1963
Bob Gialdini
Sting Ray
Veco 35
Los Alamitos CA
1962
Gerry Cipra
Nobler
Fox 35
Glenview Il
1961
Lew McFarland
Shark 45
Veco 45
Willow Grove PA
1960
Jim Silhavy
Nobler
Fox 35
Dallas TX
1959
Bill Werwage
Ares
Fox 35
Los Alamitos CA
1958
Arthur P. Pawloski
Atom
Fox 35
Glenview Il
1957
George M. Aldrich
Nobler
Fox 35
Willow Grove PA
1956
Bill Cummings
Dallas TX
1955
Bob Palmer
Thunderbird
Veco .35
Los Alamitos CA
1954
Hill Hutchins Jr.
Glenview IL
1953
Bob Elliott
Black Tiger
Willow Grove PA
1952
George M. Aldrich
Nobler
Fox 35
Las Alamitos CA
1951
Don "Buzz" Ferguson
Cheek Cowl Barnstormer
Fox 35
Dallas TX
1950
Lou Andrews
Trixter Barnstomer
Fox 35
Dallas TX
1949
W. Howard Thombs
Di-Doe Profile Bi-plane
O&R .29
Olathe KS
1948
Davey Slagle
Checkala Roma
Super Cyclone
Olathe KS
1947
Davey Slagle
Checkala Roma
Super Cyclone
Montcello MN
1946
Davey Slage
Checkla Roma
Super Cyclone
Wichita, KS
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I've wondered if the '63 StingRay was a Merco instead of the Veco. Who knows?
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Didn't Davey Slagle win it the first time using a whip powered model? I'll have to dig in the magazines to check this out, but I seem to remember reading that in the magazines of that time, might even be in "Do You Speak Model Airplane?"
Type at you later,
Dan McEntee
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Kind of looks cut/pasted from the PAMPA Website.
Infinity is spelled with an I, not an E. The engine was a RO-Jett 61 BSE. Orestes' engine is a Discovery-Retro 60 both times. I think that at least the last two of David's wins were with a PA65, not a 61.
Brett
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Didn't Davey Slagle win it the first time using a whip powered model? I'll have to dig in the magazines to check this out, but I seem to remember reading that in the magazines of that time, might even be in "Do You Speak Model Airplane?"
Type at you later,
Dan McEntee
I don't think so, it was the Checkala Roma, which was an original modified from some kit (by taking two flat-bottomed wings and gluing them together flat-side-to-flat-side to make a symmetrical airfoil, reportedly). I think Keith even tracked down which kit was bashed - I want to say some Ercoupe kit available at the time, but I could be wrong.
Brett
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I've wondered if the '63 StingRay was a Merco instead of the Veco. Who knows?
The Merco 35 is correct. I think when Brett checked out the magine and article plans...A Veco engine was shown...instead of the Merco..(see photos in article...it clearly shows a Merco.)
I have only built and flown 2 StingRays...BOTH WITH MERCO 35s (same engines as in his Sting Ray.)
I remember clearly ASKING BOB ABOUT THAT VECO when I saw the plans with the Veco drawing instead of the Merco's that he had been using.
(here is the detail from the plan...illustrating where the Veco idea came from.
Although in Bob THE BOB GIALDINI BIO article...I too was really confused when I saw the reference made made that it was a VECO 35 that he used for his winning 1963 Nats airplane?
Guess only BOB GIALDINI really knows for sure?
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I believe Bob Gialdini's Stingray was powered by a Merco .35 Brett Buck's Infinity was powered by a Ro-Jett .61 and Orestes Hernandez' Shark was powered by a Discovery Retro .60
Other than that I think you are correct.
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Dug out my old magazine...Guess it boils down to truth in the written word...Brett was only quoting what was written...(right or wrong) in the Bio.
I too heard about the "engine noise sound tests that Gialdini conducted with both the Merco and Veco engines. ::)
here is what the Sting Ray AAM 64 issue article clearly shows in print... which leds me to believe that the Meco was the 63 nats winning engine???
(but again...only Gialdini knows for certain?) H^^ ;D
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Kind of looks cut/pasted from the PAMPA Website.
Infinity is spelled with an I, not an E. The engine was a RO-Jett 61 BSE. Orestes' engine is a Discovery-Retro 60 both times. I think that at least the last two of David's wins were with a PA65, not a 61.
Brett
It is cut and paste except for the winners after 05. Anyone knowing about the entrys that are not filled in with a engine please post a reply here.
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I am not sure David used a PA 65 for his last 2 wins, about 3 or 4 years ago he took the 61 out of his plane just after winning the NATs and gave it to me for rebuild, I remember this clearly because he said something about it had over 1600 flights on that engine
I guess we need to ask David
Regards
Randy
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Bill Cummins flew a Black Nobler with a Fox 35 at the '56 Nats. I'm pretty sure Bob Gieseke told me that. I sent that info somewhere, PAMPA?
dg
Edit: Then again, it may have been Gene Hempel who told me. Gene and Bill were close friends as teenagers and were flying buddies.
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The Merco 35 is correct. I think when Brett checked out the magine and article plans...A Veco engine was shown...instead of the Merco..(see photos in article...it clearly shows a Merco.)
Huh? I don't think I ever commented on this part - and I sure as heck don't know! I was 2 years old when this happened.
Brett
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Is this list correct?
...
1996
Bob Baron
Pattern Master
Super Tigre 60
Muncie IN
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I seem to recall Mike Rogers emailing me and telling me that this was actually a Double Star 60 prototype, not an ST. Ran pretty good, no matter what it was.
Brett
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Huh? I don't think I ever commented on this part - and I sure as heck don't know! I was 2 years old when this happened.
Brett
Wow Brett...
See what happens when ya get as old as I am...and speed read through these posts..
Sorry Ace! n~ H^^ LL~
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I thought John Lenderman won sometime in the early '50's. Not long ago, I asked PW if I didn't remember seeing JL's name on the Walker Cup, and PW replied "Most Certainly" (as I recall). He used a Still Stuka with a Fox .35. Do ya suppose JL won the Walker Cup as a Sr.? D>K Steve
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I thought John Lenderman won sometime in the early '50's. Not long ago, I asked PW if I didn't remember seeing JL's name on the Walker Cup, and PW replied "Most Certainly" (as I recall). He used a Still Stuka with a Fox .35. Do ya suppose JL won the Walker Cup as a Sr.? D>K Steve
According to Wynn Paul's record of the Nats and Team Trials, John Lenderman won the Open Stunt event in 1952. George Alrdrich was the Senior Champion and won the Walker Cup as the National Stunt Champion in 1952.
John Lenderman flew to third place in the Open event in 1959. That is the only record of his Nats participation.
Keith
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I seem to recall Mike Rogers emailing me and telling me that this was actually a Double Star 60 prototype, not an ST. Ran pretty good, no matter what it was.
Brett
Not in 1996. That was a ST 60. It looked like an old one. It had a Merco muffler on it with the back end cut off.
I think he switched a year later.
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According to Wynn Paul's record of the Nats and Team Trials, John Lenderman won the Open Stunt event in 1952. George Alrdrich was the Senior Champion and won the Walker Cup as the National Stunt Champion in 1952.
John Lenderman flew to third place in the Open event in 1959. That is the only record of his Nats participation.
Keith
Here is the shot of Ben Madsen at the 67 Delta Downpour contest...(just before his offical flight in that "Oregon mist")... that soon turned into a steady downpour right in the middle of Ben's last offical flight of the day.LL~
The gentleman in the middle of the photo.... is our beloved brotha'-in-CLPA, the late John Lenderman.
Open champion at the 1952 nationals.
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Gosh,
Who was it that flew Charles Macky's Gobbleswants in 1956 again? Someone named Randolph? I can't remember but I guess Bill Cummings was a senior and beat him in the Walker Cup fly off???
Boy my memory is getting bad, bad, bad!
Jim Pollock ~^
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Bob Randall, as I recall. I think it was 1958 at Glenview.
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Not in 1996. That was a ST 60. It looked like an old one. It had a Merco muffler on it with the back end cut off.
I think he switched a year later.
Indeed. It had a Big Jim ST 60 in it at Muncie that year. Later that summer or autumn they tested the DS 60 in it, and quickly came up with the 10% reduced Patternmaster (Time Machine) for the DS.
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What is amazing is Paul Walker's record!
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Hello Mr. Storick:
A fine job as usual, but under the 1981 entry Seguin, Tx is mispelled, it has no e after it. Thanks!
Wayne Scruggs
AMA 849241
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Gosh,
Who was it that flew Charles Macky's Gobbleswants in 1956 again? Someone named Randolph? I can't remember but I guess Bill Cummings was a senior and beat him in the Walker Cup fly off???
Boy my memory is getting bad, bad, bad!
Jim Pollock ~^
Bob Randall flew at one Nationals. He won the Open Championship in 1958. The 1958 Senior Campion was Arthur Pawloski who then won the Walker Cup as the National Stunt Champion.
Bob Randall flew the Charles Mackey design twin boom Junkers Gobbleswantz. Plans and construction article were published in the June 1959 issue of American Moceler. Plans are available from the AMA and Randy Smith.
Keith
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What is amazing is Paul Walker's record!
Pretty amazing, also note that there is a world championship in the middle of the NATs run. BTW, you also might want to look at David's record - I don't think he gets nearly the credit he is due. And neither is done.
Brett
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Pretty amazing, also note that there is a world championship in the middle of the NATs run. BTW, you also might want to look at David's record - I don't think he gets nearly the credit he is due. And neither is done.
Brett
well Dave has won 5 walker cups since 1997 and last years worlds. I don't think this is as much of a feat as Paul Walker winning I think it was 5 walker cups and a World Championships in a string of 5 years. That I consider amazing H^^
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Art Pawloski won both stunt and combat at the same Nats. I always thought that was cool.
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Back to the intent of the thread...I believe the post on the PAMPA website was about Walker Cup Winners, not Open Winners, which is a different subject. So, Sparky needs to revise his list some more. mw~ Steve
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I thought the list was swell, whichever it is. I spent about an hour on it, going over each year, thinking about what I was doing then, and remembering each of the Nats I attended. Thanks for posting it, Robert.
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The gentleman in the middle of the photo.... is our beloved brotha'-in-CLPA, the late John Lenderman.
Open champion at the 1952 nationals.
The late John Lenderman was better known as a top-caliber Free Flighter (Wakefield, mostly), although he did in fact win Open Stunt at the '52 Nats with a Still Stuka.
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Another bit of interesting history that is very cool. Keith Trostle is the only one to win Open, the Walker Cup and Precision Scale. Some others have come close but he is the one that did it. RJ
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From the looks of his Bear bomber, he hasn't lost his touch.
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BTW, you also might want to look at David's record - I don't think he gets nearly the credit he is due. And neither is done.
Brett
Right you are Brett, and you need to add maybe 4 or 5 more NATs Championships from Davids earlier years !!
Randy
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BTW, you also might want to look at David's record - I don't think he gets nearly the credit he is due. And neither is done.
Brett
Right you are Brett, and you need to add maybe 4 or 5 more NATs Championships from Davids earlier years !!
Randy
More like 7 - 5 junior and 2 senior, I think. The only person to win as a Junior, Senior, and Open as far as I know. Aldrich and Billy did Senior and Open, but not Junior. But the mere fact we are talking about David in the same sentence as GMA and Bill Werwage says something.
And anyone who thinks he's not the prohibitive favorite for 2009 are deluding themselves - not that we aren't going to make him earn it!
Brett
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Didn't Les McDonald win the Nats and the World Championship in the same year 1980?
I think that's a petty good accomplishment since he had won at least one other World Championship
before winning a Nats. I've also been a bit curious weather he's coaching Orestes?
Jim :o
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I think the next one to win in Jr. Sr. and Open will be our GA Buddy Derek Barry. Believe me, it's coming soon, might have already happened if their shop hadn't burned down!
Jim Pollock y1
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I think the next one to win in Jr. Sr. and Open will be our GA Buddy Derek Barry. Believe me, it's coming soon, might have already happened if their shop hadn't burned down!
Jim Pollock y1
Yeah, that Derek ain't bad!
Anybody heard anything about Robby Gruber these days? He's still up at Yale, isn't he? Will he return to stunt or defect to Major League Baseball?
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Didn't Les McDonald win the Nats and the World Championship in the same year 1980?
I think that's a petty good accomplishment since he had won at least one other World Championship
before winning a Nats. I've also been a bit curious weather he's coaching Orestes?
Please don't take my comments on David's success as taking away from anyone else! But yes, I think you are right, and once again, we are talking about David in the same breath as Les McDonald. Pretty good company.
I don't know one way or another about Orestes, but I would tend to think not.
Brett
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The record of Les McDonald:
Open at the Nats: 72 - 7th, 73 - 3rd, 74 - 5th, 75 - 2nd, 76 - 7th, 79 - 3rd, 80 - 1st and Walker Cup
World Championships: 76 - 1st, 78 - 4th, 80 - 1st, 82 - 1st 84 - 5th
An interesting footnote about Les being on the United States team in 76. At the 75 Team Trials, Les finished 4th and Bob Gieseke finished 2nd. Following that Team Trials, Bob decided to defend his 74 World Champion title at the 76 World Championships as an independent, leaving his position on the United States team. That allowed Les to join the team as the next alternate. The results are shown above with Les winning the 76 World Champion title. The United States team won the World Team Champion title with Les leading the way with his 1st, Bill Werwage was 2nd and Gene Shaffer was 6th. Bob Gieseke finished 3rd, but his score/placing did not contribute to the Team Championship standing.
Keith
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Another bit of interesting history that is very cool. Keith Trostle is the only one to win Open, the Walker Cup and Precision Scale. Some others have come close but he is the one that did it. RJ
That is the mark of a true Master Modeler, It takes a very talented craftsman to build models for a scale competition and Stunt ,and excellent piloting skills to fly in and win Both. Keith may never have anyone compete with him for that honor.
Some of the scale ships I have seen are simply works of art. I was blown away with Ron Burn's very scale-like stunt ships , and his ablity to make the same fly that well
Randy
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More like 7 - 5 junior and 2 senior, I think. The only person to win as a Junior, Senior, and Open as far as I know. Aldrich and Billy did Senior and Open, but not Junior. But the mere fact we are talking about David in the same sentence as GMA and Bill Werwage says something.
And anyone who thinks he's not the prohibitive favorite for 2009 are deluding themselves - not that we aren't going to make him earn it!
Brett
I'm not going to the NATS this year and I think this is my last year eligible for Junior (I'm 14 now). We plan to go to the NATS in 2011 when I can drive. So for the time being, we're going to be going to Brodak's instead.
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Matt, it depends on your birthday. If not 15 before the NATS, you are still a Junior. Remember when you renew check the date on the renewal. But, also as a Senior you will probably have less competition. DOC Holliday