Author Topic: Balsa dust sucks! (Read 7354 times)

Clint Ormosen · « **on:** February 22, 2010, 11:17:36 PM »

I really hate when I get to sanding/shaping part of a plane. I'm trying to get my Tempest built before the season starts, but I'm getting so alergic to the balsa dust, I just can't get anything done. After just a few minuets in the shop, I spend more time sneezing and blowing my nose than working on anything. I usually just give up and go in to watch TV or something.
I've tried the masks, but they're so uncomfortable and hot that it just make it no fun to build (and this is supposed to be fun for me, not work!). Plus they don't really work all that well and I end up sneezing anyway.
I've even tried going outside to sand to keep the dust out of the shop. Better, but I usually build at night when it's dark and cold out.
This really is getting me down. I've been doing more trapshooting than building because of it. So far, I'm not alergic to blued steel and gunpowder.

Wynn Robins · « **Reply #1 on:** February 22, 2010, 11:23:23 PM »

make yourself a draw down? / down draft table - sucks the dust away as you sand - I think Bob Zambelli showed how to build one in Control Line World a while ago....might be just the ticket for ya

Chuck Feldman · « **Reply #2 on:** February 23, 2010, 03:56:49 AM »

Works for me

Bill Heher · « **Reply #3 on:** February 23, 2010, 06:37:33 AM »

Tape a furnace filter to the front of a box fan and set it right in front of you while you sand. It will trap most of the balsa dust as it comes off the part.

An over the counter allergy pill may help also.

SteveMoon · « **Reply #4 on:** February 23, 2010, 07:01:13 AM »

I'm with you Clint. I just can't stand the balsa dust generated
from sanding anymore. It sends me into incredible coughing
fits with or without a mask. I made a draw down sanding table
at one time, and it didn't help my situation much. Building is
really getting me down these days. I still love designing and flying
and just plain figuring things out, but the building is beating me
down.

Later, Steve

Phil Coopy · « **Reply #5 on:** February 23, 2010, 09:29:04 AM »

I do like Bill Heher does with a furnace filter taped to a 20" box fan next ro me on the bench. If you use a good filter it works. I also keep one hanging from the shop ceiling which runs whenver the lights are on. It's amazing how often I have to change the filter on that one, and how much cleaner my shop is. Of course $5 and a granddaughter with a vacuum helps too.

Phil

Bob Reeves · « **Reply #6 on:** February 23, 2010, 09:36:01 AM »

Have the same issues along with hating to sand, I bit the bullet and bought a commercial down draft table plus a dust collector, both made by Shop Fox. Can't remember what the total was but a google search for Shop Fox along with dust collection should find it. Wasn't break the bank expensive, works really well and helps with the dust situation better than I expected.

The table top is steel, one day I was in Harbor freight and spotted a rubber mat designed for the bottom of tool boxes. It has holes on about a 1/8 inch grid which allows the air and dust through but gives you a rubber surface to sand on. All in all it's a pretty good system that I'm comfortable recommending.

ray copeland · « **Reply #7 on:** February 23, 2010, 09:44:07 AM »

CA and balsa dust has got my sinuses very "active " lately !!! Masks seem to help slightly but it is so hard to chew and drink while wearing them.

Randy Powell · « **Reply #8 on:** February 23, 2010, 10:01:49 AM »

I used a sanding table for quite awhile. A grate with a box below and a channel to a Jet High Volume Dust Collector. Really worked quite well. But as time has gone on, I've quite using it. I have horrible allergies to most anything that grows (plant pollens, molds, you name it), but fortunately, balsa dust isn't among my many, many allergies. Sanding doesn't seem to bug me as much as it used to, so I quite using the sanding table. Weird.

Clint Ormosen · « **Reply #9 on:** February 23, 2010, 10:26:12 AM »

The sanding table idea sounds like something I might try. I'll have to make one as I can't really afford to buy one right now. I don't have a lot of room in my little shop for anything big though. I could try to build the fan part from the blower out of an old furnace (I get a lot of those).

Like Randy, I'm allergic to a lot of stuff that grows. I live my life on prescription allergy meds and in the Spring months I have to get a steroid injection just to function as a human. But it's only been the last couple of years that the balsa dust is really affecting me. Unless I come up with a good solution, I'm going to have to go with ARF's and forget the building.

Paul Wood · « **Reply #10 on:** February 23, 2010, 02:19:05 PM »

Amen to all the above!! My biggest issue is my eyes. They itch for days after a sanding session. Here's what I do, not a cure, but a big step in the right direction. I use a paper "regulator" mask available anywhere. The kind with the funny little filter on the front. They have a tight seal unlike the cheap pollen masks. Then I use a pair of clear safety glasses with a close fitting lense (I don't wear glasses). Also a ball cap over my hair and a long sleeve shirt. Finally, I turn a small desk top fan on and set it to blow across my face. I've had better luck trying to keep the dust off me than off the table. Finally, I vacuum everything clean before I remove the mask or glasses. You all have my sympathy!!

Paul

Randy Powell · « **Reply #11 on:** February 23, 2010, 05:03:46 PM »

Clint,

If I can figure out a way to ship it to you, you can have the Jet unit. Email me if you're interested.

Bill Heher · « **Reply #12 on:** February 23, 2010, 06:10:07 PM »

iA piece of peg board on a 1X2 frame, sized for a couple furnace filters under the pegboard. A bottom sheet to close it up and a hole in the side / bottom to hook your shopvac to.

I can't believe I haven't built one yet!

But then when I sand at home I usually go out in the driveway and let the dog run around the yard while I sit in the sun and sand, sand, sand.

Jerry Leuty · « **Reply #13 on:** February 23, 2010, 06:33:41 PM »

We modelers are resilient in coming up with tools. I am sure that vacuum tables are very expensive. But if you are imaginative you can build one for a few bucks. Here is how. First go to a local A/C-heating repair shop and ask if they have any old furnaces lying around. More than likely they will have some because they have to haul off the old equipment when they remodel a home. All of the old equipment becomes scarp metal at that time. Now my point is the blower unit is probably still in working order. Simply remove the blower unit and pay next to nothing for it. Next go to Home Depot and get a couple of sheets of the foil lined insulation board. Also get a sheet of 2'X4'X1/2" plywood for the table top. Build a frame to set the table top on that you have already cut large holes in. Line the side frame with the insulation board with the foil side out. Set the blower unit inside the table box with the blower blowing out one of the sides. You will have to secure the blower unit to the floor of the table bottom. At that point you can either duct it to the outside via a wall or fabricate a dust catcher of some sort. Personally I would use some 6" duct work hooked up the end of the blower and pipe it outside the shop. You should have a super suction unit for way under $50. I have never built one of these but if I were to this is what I would do. Those furnace blowers move a lot of air when the high speed is wired in. I also hate the sanding and prepping of a model. But when the color gets on it oh how rewarding that is.

You say that you have tried the dust mask and I am sure that these are the cheap paper type. But you might invest in a more expensive rubber mask with the external filters on the side. The main thing is don't give up building.......the ARFs and ARCs are not that great.

Jerry

Greg McCoy · « **Reply #14 on:** February 23, 2010, 08:24:44 PM »

I have had good results with alergy relief by rinsing the sinuses with mild saline water, it rinses the irritants out, allowing the irritation to heal. Saw it on Oprah, so it's got to be good.

here is the article from webmd.

http://www.webmd.com/allergies/sinus-pain-pressure-9/neti-pots

Clint Ormosen · « **Reply #15 on:** February 23, 2010, 08:38:20 PM »

Quote from: Jerry Leuty on February 23, 2010, 06:33:41 PM

First go to a local A/C-heating repair shop and ask if they have any old furnaces lying around. More than likely they will have some because they have to haul off the old equipment when they remodel a home. All of the old equipment becomes scarp metal at that time. Now my point is the blower unit is probably still in working order. Simply remove the blower unit and pay next to nothing for it.Jerry

Hmmm........Now where in world am I going to find an old furnace? That's going to be the tough part.

(Little joke there, Jerry. I'm an HVAC contractor)

Building one of these dust tables is not a bad idea to try, but I doubt it's going to be the cure. I'll be happily surprised if it works though.
As far as masks go, I've tried everything from cheep paper to an $80 unit using replacable filters. The masks do work (as long as I keep it on untill I leave the shop) but I just don't like them. They're uncomfortable and hot and if that's the only way I can do this, then I probably won't do this. I have to wear the stupid things while working in attics and such and I don't want to have to use them to ruin something I used to enjoy doing.

I know it sounds like I'm just trying to find an excuse to not build or sand airplanes, but that's not the case at all. I enjoy building. I just don't want to have to wear a spacesuit to do it.

Wayne Collier · « **Reply #16 on:** February 24, 2010, 04:05:32 AM »

I generally sand on the porch or under our open sided carport. Often it is possible to to position myself so that the breeze drifts the dust away from me. I don't have a shop. My storage shed does not have much room to work so I often work under the carport. However, because we have had an unusually long stretch of wet/ cool/ damp weather, I have done a small amount of sanding and doping in the house this winter. I did end up vacuuming though.

My point is, sometimes, when the weather agrees, outside can be a good solution. Other than that, I think a good dust collector may really help.

Robert Zambelli · « **Reply #17 on:** February 24, 2010, 07:33:34 AM »

Clint - and everyone concerned about dust. The downdraft bench I built and documented in CL World not only works but it far exceeded my expectations.
I had a few serious bouts with allergies, many of which I'm positive were exacerbated by balsa and other airborne dust.
After building the bench, I had a few intense sanding jobs and I did them all with the downdraft system working. At a guess, I would say that near 100% of the dust was trapped. No allergy issues at all. I was really surprised at how quickly the filter loaded up, indicating that it was doing the job. Whenever I paint, I try and do as much of it as possible on the bench. It does not pretend to remove the fumes but it does trap particulate matter.
I strongly recommend that anyone having problem build the bench or something similar. It's a relatively easy and inexpensive task.
Also, consider the dust collection system that I built for my woodcutting and sanding tools.
Employing both of these, there is just minimal dust in my shop.
Bob Z.

john e. holliday · « **Reply #18 on:** February 24, 2010, 09:24:25 AM »

Isn't the build article for this in "Control Line World"? If so I may have to dig it out and build one for the shop.

Robert Zambelli · « **Reply #19 on:** February 24, 2010, 10:58:33 AM »

John - the bench article is in CL World volume 2, number 4, October 2008.

The workshop dust collector is in volume 3, number 1, January 2009.

Bob Z.

Balsa Butcher · « **Reply #20 on:** February 24, 2010, 11:35:33 AM »

Your'e right Clint, that balsa dust is terrible stuff. You should quit building immediately!...dibs on your Blue Sky JD Falcon kit. Come to think of it, nitromethane is a pretty noxious chemical too, better switch to electric before it becomes allergenic...put me down for your OS 46 VF, a B-40 and one of the Randy OS .40 FPs!
Just kidding...really, hope you can resolve your allergy issues - looking forward to seeing the Tempest fly.

Russell Shaffer · « **Reply #21 on:** February 24, 2010, 02:02:28 PM »

Exactly what type of furnace filters are you guys using? The woven fiberglass or the low priced paper pleated kind? I like Bob Z's table - I could really use something like that.

FLOYD CARTER · « **Reply #22 on:** February 24, 2010, 02:57:37 PM »

I guess I'm just lucky. Nothing beats the smell of freshly sanded balsa in the morning.

Floyd

Clint Ormosen · « **Reply #23 on:** February 24, 2010, 03:02:39 PM »

Quote from: Pete Cunha on February 24, 2010, 11:35:33 AM

Your'e right Clint, that balsa dust is terrible stuff. You should quit building immediately!...dibs on your Blue Sky JD Falcon kit. Come to think of it, nitromethane is a pretty noxious chemical too, better switch to electric before it becomes allergenic...put me down for your OS 46 VF, a B-40 and one of the Randy OS .40 FPs!
Just kidding...really, hope you can resolve your allergy issues - looking forward to seeing the Tempest fly.

OK Pete, got it. You're on the list for that stuff. Only one Brodak 40? What am I supposed to do with the other nine? I guess you didn't want my PA.65 RE either?

Looks like a sanding table might be the thing to try here. I have nothing at all to lose by trying one.
Guys, thanks for the replies and for being sympathetic.

Clint Ormosen · « **Reply #24 on:** February 24, 2010, 03:03:24 PM »

Quote from: FLOYD CARTER on February 24, 2010, 02:57:37 PM

I guess I'm just lucky. Nothing beats the smell of freshly sanded balsa in the morning.

Floyd

Yup, you are lucky. I used to be the same way.

Robert Zambelli · « **Reply #25 on:** February 24, 2010, 06:26:21 PM »

Russell - I've been using the standard woven fiberglass filters but I imagine any type would work.

Bob Z.

John Cralley · « **Reply #26 on:** February 24, 2010, 06:36:09 PM »

I wonder if spraying the filter with "Endust free" would make it even better at trapping balsa dust??

http://www.endust.com/default.aspx

Russell Shaffer · « **Reply #27 on:** February 24, 2010, 07:26:11 PM »

Walmart sells a special filter spray, but I bet Endust or Pam would work as well.

Jim Kraft · « **Reply #28 on:** February 24, 2010, 09:28:50 PM »

I am pretty much ok with balsa dust. But if I use CA or sand balsa that has been glued with CA, I get what seems to be a really bad head cold that lasts for several days. I use a lot of Sig Sigment, and Titebond.

Clint Ormosen · « **Reply #29 on:** February 25, 2010, 02:51:04 AM »

Quote from: Jim Kraft on February 24, 2010, 09:28:50 PM

I am pretty much ok with balsa dust. But if I use CA or sand balsa that has been glued with CA, I get what seems to be a really bad head cold that lasts for several days. I use a lot of Sig Sigment, and Titebond.

So far, none of the glues seem to bother me. But I'm sure that's next and I'll have to go with tape together models or something.