What scale do we typically fly?

[Phil Hawkins]

Hey Guys,
Tom Morris recently shipped me Hoyt Hawkins "Hawk's Warhawk" almost ready to finish (in silver) and I am going to be looking for a few parts to finish it (mostly canopy & cockpit) but I am not sure the scale. It has a 56" wing span. Is there a simple way to figure scale or can someone give me an idea what the scale is? Thank you in advance!
I know there is at least one more Hawk's Warhawk out there, if anyone is aware of it's existence I would sure like to hear about it! Tom still has the original that got heat warped at the OTS Stunt contest in Arizona many years ago. Tom will ship that one to me too after I send him his incredible work of art box he made! Thanks again for any help!

[PerttiMe]

Like in Stunt News Jan/Feb 2007?
https://pampacl.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/SN_Magazine_JAN_FEB_2007.pdf

The plan there shows a very non-scale canopy. A photo in the article has a more scale like one.

My first thought is to measure what size you need to make it look right. Then either make one or see if you can find one that fits or can be cut to fit.

[Trostle]

I met and got to know Hoyt Hawkins at later Air Force World Wide Model Airplane Championships.  I enjoyed the time we had together over the years.

A wide variety of canopies in shapes and sizes are available at Keith Sparks website:

http://parkflyerplastics.com/cart/index.php?main_page=index

A canopy that would fit and look right on the Hawkins P-40Q can be found there.  If you would like to see a set of 3-views of the full scale P-40Q, I can find one in my file and post it here.  The real one looks a bit different than what Hoyt has in his plans.  The full size P-40Q has a full canopy with no semblance of a turtle deck like shows on his plans and the model pictured.

Keith

[Phil Hawkins]

I met and got to know Hoyt Hawkins at later Air Force World Wide Model Airplane Championships.  I enjoyed the time we had together over the years.

A wide variety of canopies in shapes and sizes are available at Keith Sparks website:

http://parkflyerplastics.com/cart/index.php?main_page=index

A canopy that would fit and look right on the Hawkins P-40Q can be found there.  If you would like to see a set of 3-views of the full scale P-40Q, I can find one in my file and post it here.  The real one looks a bit different than what Hoyt has in his plans.  The full size P-40Q has a full canopy with no semblance of a turtle deck like shows on his plans and the model pictured.

Keith

That would be very much appreciated Keith!

I am particularly interested in the image of Micky Mouse holding the bomb. I can recreate it with images found online, but if I can find a detailed picture of one would obviously help to get it as he designed it.
Hoyt's time flying with you was definitely among the most treasured memories he had. He spoke of it to me frequently.

Thank you guys for the links! I have been experimenting with making simple canopies and have determined that my best option is to buy one already made!

[Trostle]

That would be very much appreciated Keith!

I am particularly interested in the image of Micky Mouse holding the bomb. I can recreate it with images found online, but if I can find a detailed picture of one would obviously help to get it as he designed it.
Hoyt's time flying with you was definitely among the most treasured memories he had. He spoke of it to me frequently.

Thank you guys for the links! I have been experimenting with making simple canopies and have determined that my best option is to buy one already made!

Phil,

Thanks for the word about Hoyt. 

Regarding the P-40Q, you can do a search on the internet and get several pictures.  There were at least two versions.  One had squared wing tips, the other had the rounded tips like most of all of the other P-40's.  I think one version did have a turtle deck behind the canopy.  There are pictures like this in natural aluminum, others that show the olive drab upper surfaces/light gray on the bottom with the shark's mouth. 

The model shown below was 14th at the '81 Nats. OS .25 for power.

There has been considerable misinformation about the P-40Q on this forum.  Do a bit of searching on the internet if you are really interested about the airplane.

This should give an idea of the thing.

http://www.aviastar.org/air/usa/curtiss_p-40q.php

Keith

[Tim Wescott]

Dunno how many canopies you've installed -- but you generally have a lot of lattitude to make something fit.  They widen and narrow up quite readily, and how you trim them to fit can affect how they look to a large degree (which I find personally frustrating every time I overshoot on the trimming).

Unless you're a super-expert, don't be embarrassed to get a handful of canopies that might fit and sorting through to find the best one.

[Motorman]

1/8th scale

[Trostle]

1/8th scale

Perhaps there is another way to look at the "appropriate" size canopy for the Hoyt Hawkins P-40 would be to consider the "typical" length of a Classic era .35 powered stunt ship.

The fuselage of a "typical" WW II fighter is maybe around 36'.  A "typical" Classic era powered stunt ship is maybe 42" to 45".  That model's fuselage length would be approximately 1/10 the length of the "typical" full size WW II fighter.  A more appropriate size canopy for that "typical" Classic era semi-scale stunt ship would be 1/10.

The Hoyt Hawkins' P-40 plans show the fuselage is about 40". The canopy should be no larger than a "generic" WW II 1/10 canopy.  A 1/8 full size canopy would have to be cut down a lot, but a 1/10 full size canopy would look better, even though it probably would still have to be cut down.  A 1/12 full size canopy might be made to work, but it might start to look too small. 

The dearth of a semi-scale stunt design is to have a canopy on it that is either too large or too small.  One of the first things a person looks at when viewing a semi-scale model is to look at the canopy.  A canopy that is not properly sized to the model will immediately destroy the first impression of that design.   Al Rabe was a master at this.

The best approach would be to get several and then determine which will look best after being cut down to fit the model.

Keith

[Geoff Goodworth]

Photos posted by Keith some time ago led me to search the P40-Q when I found Walt Pyron's Black Hawk on Outerzone.

The attached is copied verbatim from the web site acknowledged at the end of the article.

[Phil Hawkins]

Phil,

Thanks for the word about Hoyt. 

Regarding the P-40Q, you can do a search on the internet and get several pictures.  There were at least two versions.  One had squared wing tips, the other had the rounded tips like most of all of the other P-40's.  I think one version did have a turtle deck behind the canopy.  There are pictures like this in natural aluminum, others that show the olive drab upper surfaces/light gray on the bottom with the shark's mouth. 

The model shown below was 14th at the '81 Nats. OS .25 for power.

There has been considerable misinformation about the P-40Q on this forum.  Do a bit of searching on the internet if you are really interested about the airplane.

This should give an idea of the thing.

http://www.aviastar.org/air/usa/curtiss_p-40q.php

Keith

Thank you Keith.
I have a set of full size plans that if I remember correctly we're drawn by Watt Moore? But Tom sent me several copies of both the Q & N models on 8.5x11 sheets. The model I have is the N as is the one still at Tom's shop in Alabama. 
Well for sure I have enough information to get in the wheelhouse of the correct canopy. I really appreciate your help and time. 

[Geoff Goodworth]

Returning to the original question, Noel Stephenson had several semi-scale Spitfires published in Aeromodeller years ago.

The 45" span version used three scales.

The fuselage was 1": the foot, the wing was 1.25": the foot and the tail feathers were 1.5": the foot. There were several different sizes but all used the same proportions.

The plan for the 45" span version is available from Outerzone Spitfire Stunter (oz7532) or Aerofred Plan ID 98295

After looking at Hoyt's plan, I think the difference in height between the top of the nose and the rear fuselage is a bit high. What ever canopy is chosen, I expect that is will require careful fitting at the back of the cockpit opening.