News:



  • May 23, 2024, 09:22:24 AM

Login with username, password and session length

Author Topic: Air Force World Wide Championships  (Read 2052 times)

Online Ken Culbertson

  • 24 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 6162
Air Force World Wide Championships
« on: September 18, 2019, 12:22:37 PM »
Does anybody know when the Air Force Championships ended and where it was last held?  Google, who is supposed to know everything, is no help.

Ken
AMA 15382
If it is not broke you are not trying hard enough.
USAF 1968-1974 TAC

Online Larry Wong

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • ******
  • Posts: 957
Re: Air Force World Wide Championships
« Reply #1 on: September 18, 2019, 06:19:59 PM »
I was at the 1961 Airforce meet Langley Virginia, but not sure when the last on was.  I think it was the time when the Navy stop hosting the Nat's ????                1960-1964 ADC Hamilton AFB California 84th FIS One -O- Wonder
« Last Edit: September 20, 2019, 12:56:13 AM by Larry Wong »
Larry

Believing is the Beginning to greatness <><

Offline Trostle

  • 22 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 3345
Re: Air Force World Wide Championships
« Reply #2 on: September 18, 2019, 06:43:13 PM »
I know for sure that the Air force World wide Model airplane Championships were held until at least 1971.  These meets were held at an Air Force base, often in Texas but other bases across the country were used.  The CL events were flown on the base, the FF events at a field nearby.  Various commands would hold their own contests to select their 5 man teams to compete at the AF meet.  Some commands did not send a 5 man team, some commands did not participate like SAC.  TAC, PACAF, ATC, AFSC and MAC would send teams.

The Air Force meet was generally held two weeks before the Nationals so that a team could be formed and compete for the National Team Championship.  The AMA used to have separate competitions at the Nats for a number of categories including National Team, Club Team, Open Champion, Senior Champion, Junior Champion.  The National Teams and the Club Teams consisted of 5 competitors.  The National Team members need not be affiliated with a club.  The Club Team members had to be from the same club.  Each member of a team could compete in as many as 9 events - 3 in CL, 3 in FF and 3 of any category.   Points were gained as a percentage of the members' score/time/speed of the winning number.

As far as I know, the Air Force won the National Team Championship from the early 60's through at least 1970.  I was on those teams in 1966 and 1970, though in 66 I was a "mechanic" which meant that I chased FF or stood in line for a team member's next flight in speed or FF, or worked in the hangar to repair broken airplanes.  I did get to fly stunt (5th) since I won the stunt event at the Air Force meet earlier. 

Sometime after 1970, it could have been 71 or 72, the Air Force Team at the Nats did not win.  A group from the South figured out how the Air Force always won and did them one better.  The Air Force teams consisted of 5 members but had 5 more mechanics for the duties described above.  This gave a definite advantage to the Air Force teams as other national teams usually did not have the resources to support their team with many full time helpers.  Also, the Air Force teams normally concentrated most of their events in FF.  Yes, each team member had to fly at least 3 CL events, but relied on most of the team points to come from the 3 optional events to be in FF.  The team from the South was made up of several Senior fliers, had plenty of help from families and friends,  and concentrated most of their optional events in CL Speed where winning scores in the SR category could be more favorably compared.  The Air Force Team got beat and then, there were no more Air Force World Wide Championships.  This happened as early as 1971 but probably not later than 1973.

Sometime in that period, the AMA ceased their recognition of the various champion titles described above.  There might not have been many or even any groups that would put together a National Team or Club team so interest apparently dwindled. The AMA did little to promote these activities and the model press also did little to recognize them.  The Navy stopped hosting the Nats around that time and later the AMA went to multiple sites and different dates for various categories, it would become impossible to have such categories.   

(This has nothing to do with the Air Force meets, but in the 70's, the AMA did have another category for Scale Champion, Jr, St and Open.  Several events had to be flown including at least two of the three categories of CL, FF and maybe RC.  This did not last long when the AMA went to multiple dates for the various events.)

I had heard that the Army and the Navy had entered the National Team category at the Nats, though not on a regular basis.  The approach used by the Air Force was hard to beat until the team from the South figured it out.

The three Air Force meets I attended were well organized and well run capped by an awards banquet at the end of the week.  They were really memorable events.

Keith


Online Ken Culbertson

  • 24 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 6162
Re: Air Force World Wide Championships
« Reply #3 on: September 18, 2019, 11:44:18 PM »
Keith - Thanks for the history.  I have no clue why I never attended.  I was competitive in Stunt, Combat, Rat, both Nordics, HLG and 1/2A/A gas in those years, hell we all were multi discipline in those days.  Except for the time in SEA there was no reason I couldn't have gotten TDY but looking back, I don't think I even knew about the contest.

Just an off topic FYI, I was successful in getting your CAM rudder to work in a narrow tail.  Thank you for the help.  Hasn't flown yet but it works and it is gaining some local interest.  I posted some pictures on the other thread.

Ken
AMA 15382
If it is not broke you are not trying hard enough.
USAF 1968-1974 TAC

Offline dale gleason

  • 23 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 842
Re: Air Force World Wide Championships
« Reply #4 on: September 19, 2019, 04:32:50 PM »
Going a little off topic, but, when did the USAF begin sponsoring teams for the NATs?

Today there's about a half dozen flying friends of mine who were in FEAF, PACAF contests held by the Air Force in the early fifties.

We "Brats" in Japan thought we would be allowed to compete at the PACAF finals at Tachikawa  AFB in 1958 and were preparing for the different events when we learned.....  "never hoppen, Boy-san!" But, we were allowed to pit Rat Racers and Combat for the GIs from Kadena, Naha, Korea, and Japan. And the Phillipines. Maybe Formosa. It was fantastic to say the least.

The book "Mission With Lemay" brought out that Lemay started the Base Hobby Shops that were so wonderful back then.

Just rambling', forgive me,
dg

Offline bob whitney

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • ******
  • Posts: 2246
Re: Air Force World Wide Championships
« Reply #5 on: September 19, 2019, 06:15:19 PM »
1966 it was terrible duty but some one had to do it.had to leave my post in Hawaii ,go to Tachikawa Japan for the PACAF Championships to fly model airplanes then to San Antonio Tex for the USAF champs.Then had to spend a week on a 500 acre farm in Kansas, waiting for the US Nationals in Chicago,with the AF team taking top Honors. then back to my normal life in Hawaii for another 2 years ,ALL on Uncle SAM's Dime
« Last Edit: September 19, 2019, 10:45:48 PM by bob whitney »
rad racer

Offline Trostle

  • 22 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 3345
Re: Air Force World Wide Championships
« Reply #6 on: September 19, 2019, 06:26:22 PM »
One of the first model airplane magazines I ever bought (from the local drug store in a small rural community in Kansas) was the 1953 Air Trails Annual.  I still have a fairly intact copy of that magazine.  The first article in that magazine was titled "Hail to the G.I. Modeler".  In that article, it was stated that the "Air Force World-Wide Model Airplane Championships held during the past two years were one of the most remarkable accomplishments in the history of service modeling."  In that article was a picture of then Sgt. Bryant Thompson with a small scale B-36.  Sgt Thompson may be better remembered as "Red" Thompson who later ran a hobby shop near Chanute AFB and was a many time CL Event Director at the US Nats.

That article mentioned that the US Navy had hosted the US Nats for the previous five years.

I have no idea when the Air Force started sending teams to the US Nats.  I learned of the Air Force meet in the local base paper (Patrick AFB, near Cape Canaveral) in my second year in the Air Force in 1964, went to the personnel office to see what it would take to attend and that started a remarkable experience for me for the next seven years, attending three of those, meeting some lifetime friends, attending my first two Nats and being able to compete in the Nats stunt event.

At that first for me Air Force meet in 64, I witnessed the first stunt pattern the way it should be flown and stood in awe.  Dick Mathis was the Contest Director for the entire meet and was training the judges for the stunt event.  He had previously had high flight points at a Nats but placed like 5th due to low appearance points.  (I can still remember that airplane, covered with tissue, trimmed in colored tissue and painted with clear dope.  To me, it was immaculate.)  I had never previously seen the stunt pattern flown that well, having only flown at a few local contests in Florida the previous year.  I won my first trophy at that AF meet (2nd place in stunt).

Keith

Offline Trostle

  • 22 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 3345
Re: Air Force World Wide Championships
« Reply #7 on: September 19, 2019, 06:32:15 PM »
1966 it was terrible duty but some one had to do it.had to leave my post in Hawaii ,go to Tachikawa Japan for the PACAF Championships to fly model airplanes then to San Antonio Tex for the USAF champs.Then had to spend a week on a 500 acre farm in Kansass, waiting for the US Nationals in Chicago,with the AF team taking top Honors. then back to my normal life in Hawaii for another 2 years ,ALL on Uncle SAM's Dime

That was an 800 acre farm in Kansas.  Was a good place to check out a few FF model.

I had to take 3 weeks of permissive TDY and got an expense allowance.  You probably had to take even more permissive TDY since you had to go to the PACAF meet to qualify for the Air Force meet plus all of that travel time.  You were a Team Member, and I was a lowly mechanic.

Keith

Offline RogerGreene

  • 21 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Commander
  • *
  • Posts: 365
Re: Air Force World Wide Championships
« Reply #8 on: September 19, 2019, 07:42:57 PM »
While I was stationed at Kadena in 1964 got to go TDY to Tachikawa for the Japan/American meet and took 2nd place in stunt. That was just after the Olympics. What an adventure.

Roger
Fly Stunt <><
AMA 435R
USAF Veteran 1962-66 SAC
Life is 10% what happens to you and 90% of how you react to it. FAA #FA3RFLPAN7

Online Dick Tyndall

  • 23 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Lieutenant
  • *
  • Posts: 92
Re: Air Force World Wide Championships
« Reply #9 on: September 19, 2019, 09:10:47 PM »
   To the best of my knowledge 1971 was the last year that the USAF had the World Wide USAF Model Airplane Championship contest. It was held at Chanute AFB in Illinois. I was a Crew Chief on F-100 fighters at Cannon AFB, New Mexico and got picked for the TAC team. I built two of my own design fast combat airplanes ( "Toothpick" ) and two of a friends Hand Launch Glider design from back in Richmond, Virginia.  I went out early in the combat contest, but lent my second "Toothpick" to a SMSGT from Florida for the final which he won. Typically most every year all of the Free Flight events were won by Reid Simpson. He was obviously an excellent modeler. Everyone was flying from the grass off of a concrete taxiway. I thought it was much better to throw my HLG airplanes over the taxiways where the heat was rising off of ( more thermals, updrafts ) and sure enough, caught a couple of boomers which got me first place in HLG. Reid won all of the other FF events. It was a pretty good week for a 20 year old kid! I remember Larry Borden ( Texas combat flier ) being there and Slugger Brown was there, also. I don't remember any one else's name that was there. I remember going to a local hobby shop in the nearby city of Champaign with a Major in his motor home with a few other guys before the contest started. It was a really nice hobby shop. I believe the name of the shop was TOWER HOBBIES.  Uncle Sam paid for my props, glow plugs and fuel for a fun week of flying model airplanes. Quite an experience that I will never forget. The plaque I received for winning HLG is one of my treasured trophies in my modelling career.

          Dick Tyndall

Online Ken Culbertson

  • 24 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 6162
Re: Air Force World Wide Championships
« Reply #10 on: September 19, 2019, 11:50:40 PM »
Maybe that explains why I was never able to go.  I was a weapons crew chief on F-4's and F-111's.  The only TDY we ever got until the end of "the war" was to extend our time across the pond.  In '72 I got stationed in Korea and we has a robust hobby shop and lots of people flying CL.  No FF because there was no place to fly.   It would have been easy to get TDY then...but it was too late.

I was surprised to hear that we were still flying F-100's in 71.

Ken
AMA 15382
If it is not broke you are not trying hard enough.
USAF 1968-1974 TAC

Online Dick Tyndall

  • 23 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Lieutenant
  • *
  • Posts: 92
Re: Air Force World Wide Championships
« Reply #11 on: September 20, 2019, 02:02:52 PM »
   We had the last F-100 squadron in the USAF ( 524th TFS ) at Cannon AFB. They were formally retired around mid 1972.  They went to ANG squadrons around different parts of the USA. We received all 96 F-111D's at Cannon during this time. In March of 1973 I was sent to Takhli RTAFB in Thailand for a 6 month TDY to work on the F-111A's that were there with the 474th TFW based at Nellis AFB, Nevada. The Vietnam war was officially ended in January of '73 but we were still dropping a lot of bombs over there ( NOT in Vietnam ). I came back to Cannon in September and was discharged in December. Got back into flying model airplanes a couple of years later.

                         Dick Tyndall
« Last Edit: September 20, 2019, 11:00:15 PM by Dick Tyndall »

Online Larry Wong

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • ******
  • Posts: 957
Re: Air Force World Wide Championships
« Reply #12 on: September 20, 2019, 05:50:10 PM »
Pictures   ONE-O-WONDER  #^ 84th FIS ADC Hamilton Ca. 1961
Larry

Believing is the Beginning to greatness <><

Offline Steve Scott

  • 21 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 673
  • Terrorizing earthworms since '65
Re: Air Force World Wide Championships
« Reply #13 on: September 20, 2019, 07:02:27 PM »
Going a little off topic, but, when did the USAF begin sponsoring teams for the NATs?

Today there's about a half dozen flying friends of mine who were in FEAF, PACAF contests held by the Air Force in the early fifties.

We "Brats" in Japan thought we would be allowed to compete at the PACAF finals at Tachikawa  AFB in 1958 and were preparing for the different events when we learned.....  "never hoppen, Boy-san!" But, we were allowed to pit Rat Racers and Combat for the GIs from Kadena, Naha, Korea, and Japan. And the Phillipines. Maybe Formosa. It was fantastic to say the least.

The book "Mission With Lemay" brought out that Lemay started the Base Hobby Shops that were so wonderful back then.

Just rambling', forgive me,
dg
I was in 8th/9th grade and spent many hours in this Hobby Shop on Clark Air Base circa 1965/66.   Noblers were pretty popular.  I got as far as a McCoy .35 powered Ringmaster and a Fox .19 Jr Nobler.

Offline De Hill

  • 24 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 1197
Re: Air Force World Wide Championships
« Reply #14 on: September 20, 2019, 08:47:03 PM »
I was stationed at Naha AB Okinawa in 1963-64. We had a controline club that headquartered in the base hobby shop. We were the Aerial Habus. (Flying Snakes) We went to Tachikawa in 63 and 64 to fly in the Far East Championships. In 1964 Jim Tichy won stunt, flying his Colossus. I won 1/2a Free Flight, placed second in 1/2a speed, and won rat race with Jim Tichy pitting for me. 1964 was a qualifying year for the PACAF team to go to the USAF world wide competition. As I remember, it was a 3 man team, and I was picked for the third slot.

Due to budget constraints, PACAF didn't send a team back to the states in 1964.

Drat! that would have been fun!
De Hill

Online Ken Culbertson

  • 24 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 6162
Re: Air Force World Wide Championships
« Reply #15 on: September 20, 2019, 09:53:50 PM »
   We had the last F-100 squadron in the USAF ( 524th TFS ) at Cannon AFB. They were formally retired around mid 1972.  They went to ANG squadrons around different parts of the USA. We received all 96 F-111D's at Cannon during this time. In March of 1973 I was sent to Takhli RTAFB in Thailand for a 6 month TDY to work on the F-111A's that were there with the 474th TFS based at Nellis AFB, Nevada. The Vietnam war was officially ended in March of '73 but we were still dropping a lot of bombs over there ( NOT in Vietnam ). I came back to Cannon in September and was discharged in December. Got back into flying model airplanes a couple of years later.

                         Dick Tyndall
Small world.  I was a weapons crew chief with the 474th and was on the deployment to Takhli.  It was ORI style and you have no idea how many guys alert duffel bags were full of bed sheets.  I had just gotten back that day from another TDY and did not have a crew so I wasn't on alert status but, much to my misfortune, I was still certified.  One of the other crew chiefs got injured in an accident coming to base and I got yanked out of bed at 2:00am and told to grab what I could and get to the flight line.  I didn't even get to meet my crew till we landed at Takhli and then we had about 6 hours to get ready to turn some of the inbound 111's for a mission.  Turns out all three of them were two stripers fresh out of training who had never even touched live munitions and here we were with every officer above the rank of Captain watching us load up that first strike.  Somehow we survived.  Never much liked the 111.  Everything was too high off of the ground.

Did you get to participate in those first couple of weeks?  It was chaos.

Ken
AMA 15382
If it is not broke you are not trying hard enough.
USAF 1968-1974 TAC

Online Dick Tyndall

  • 23 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Lieutenant
  • *
  • Posts: 92
Re: Air Force World Wide Championships
« Reply #16 on: September 20, 2019, 10:55:52 PM »
Ken,
    You probably went over with one of the first groups of F-111A's from Nellis to Takhli during Constant Guard/Linebacker that went from September 1972 thru June 1972. The aircraft would fly across the pond and the ground crews would turn them around in a matter of hours to fly missions over North Vietnam. They did this with Harvest Reaper in 1968 with 6 aircraft ( losing 4 aircraft rather quickly, I think ) and again in 1968 with Combat Lancer with 6 aircraft and lost 2 aircraft in a month's time after flying 55 missions. Obviously I am getting a lot of this information from a book that I have on F-111's . The F-111A, 67-112 that I was Crew Chief on over there flew the second highest number of missions ( 226 ) of all of the F-111's over there. It was one of the six F-111A's sold to the Australian Air Force and converted to a "C" model. The Australian's retired their fleet of F-111C's in 1996.
     Small world, huh?

                   Dick

Online Ken Culbertson

  • 24 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 6162
Re: Air Force World Wide Championships
« Reply #17 on: September 21, 2019, 01:03:18 AM »
Ken,
    You probably went over with one of the first groups of F-111A's from Nellis to Takhli during Constant Guard/Linebacker that went from September 1972 thru June 1972. The aircraft would fly across the pond and the ground crews would turn them around in a matter of hours to fly missions over North Vietnam. They did this with Harvest Reaper in 1968 with 6 aircraft ( losing 4 aircraft rather quickly, I think ) and again in 1968 with Combat Lancer with 6 aircraft and lost 2 aircraft in a month's time after flying 55 missions. Obviously I am getting a lot of this information from a book that I have on F-111's . The F-111A, 67-112 that I was Crew Chief on over there flew the second highest number of missions ( 226 ) of all of the F-111's over there. It was one of the six F-111A's sold to the Australian Air Force and converted to a "C" model. The Australian's retired their fleet of F-111C's in 1996.
     Small world, huh?

                   Dick
It was the 72 group.  We reopened the base and had no electricity or water in the hooches for about a week so it must have been the first bunch.  That was a long time ago.  I didn't get to stay for the full deployment.  I had orders for Kunsan before they snached me out of bed for the fun and games.  Went to work for the "Wolfe Pack" for a year on F-4's then back to Mountain Home to finish out on 111's again.  Got out in '74 and started flying serious stunt again in '75.  Bought a little house about a mile from Hobby Park in Dallas.  Worked nights while I finished school and got to fly in the early mornings almost every day with this guy flying a little red Nobler.

Ken
AMA 15382
If it is not broke you are not trying hard enough.
USAF 1968-1974 TAC

Offline Mike Scholtes

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • ******
  • Posts: 1192
Re: Air Force World Wide Championships
« Reply #18 on: September 21, 2019, 11:39:29 AM »
Larry is too modest to point this out himself, but he is piloting the center ship in the formation shot above.

Online Dick Tyndall

  • 23 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Lieutenant
  • *
  • Posts: 92
Re: Air Force World Wide Championships
« Reply #19 on: September 21, 2019, 11:48:55 PM »
   The guy with the "little red Nobler" had to be Bob Gieseke. I never met him but he certainly left his mark with the stunt community. Are you still in the Dallas area? I was in Dallas last October ( actually Carrollton ) for about 9 days for the NAMBA Nationals ( R/C boat racing ) at McInnis Park ( ? ) off of Sandy Lake Road near MacArthur Blvd. Anyway, we were running the boats in a lake at the park and there were lots of soccer and baseball fields there. Got hooked on the Hard 8 BBQ joint. Wouldn't mind coming back there again.

                    Dick

Online Ken Culbertson

  • 24 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 6162
Re: Air Force World Wide Championships
« Reply #20 on: September 22, 2019, 12:46:28 AM »
   The guy with the "little red Nobler" had to be Bob Gieseke. I never met him but he certainly left his mark with the stunt community. Are you still in the Dallas area? I was in Dallas last October ( actually Carrollton ) for about 9 days for the NAMBA Nationals ( R/C boat racing ) at McInnis Park ( ? ) off of Sandy Lake Road near MacArthur Blvd. Anyway, we were running the boats in a lake at the park and there were lots of soccer and baseball fields there. Got hooked on the Hard 8 BBQ joint. Wouldn't mind coming back there again.

                    Dick
Yes it was Bob.  Quite a character.  I was lucky to know him in his prime years.  I am still here.

Ken 
AMA 15382
If it is not broke you are not trying hard enough.
USAF 1968-1974 TAC

Offline Glenn Quarles

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Lieutenant
  • ***
  • Posts: 116
Re: Air Force World Wide Championships
« Reply #21 on: September 22, 2019, 05:10:10 PM »
   The guy with the "little red Nobler" had to be Bob Gieseke. I never met him but he certainly left his mark with the stunt community. Are you still in the Dallas area? I was in Dallas last October ( actually Carrollton ) for about 9 days for the NAMBA Nationals ( R/C boat racing ) at McInnis Park ( ? ) off of Sandy Lake Road near MacArthur Blvd. Anyway, we were running the boats in a lake at the park and there were lots of soccer and baseball fields there. Got hooked on the Hard 8 BBQ joint. Wouldn't mind coming back there again.

                    Dick
Dick, I’m just about an hour and 20 minutes south of DFW...if you ever make it back to the area you are welcome to come stay a few days at our place! We can talk boats  and airplanes!!

GQ
Live in such a way that those who know you, but don't know God will come to know God because they know you.

Offline RandySmith

  • Administrator
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 13747
  • Welcome to the Stunt Hanger.
    • Aero Products
Re: Air Force World Wide Championships
« Reply #22 on: September 23, 2019, 08:43:28 AM »
Does anybody know when the Air Force Championships ended and where it was last held?  Google, who is supposed to know everything, is no help.

Ken

GREAT thread  Guys ! 

Randy

Online Dick Tyndall

  • 23 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Lieutenant
  • *
  • Posts: 92
Re: Air Force World Wide Championships
« Reply #23 on: September 23, 2019, 02:20:06 PM »
Hi Glenn,
    I wasn't sure if you were in Texas or were someplace else. Good to hear from you. Hope things are going well for you and your family. I'm not doing a lot of boat racing these days but I would like to get back to flying some controline airplanes again. We'll see how that works out.

                        Dick


Advertise Here
Tags:
 


Advertise Here