Author Topic: Tempest flight report...... (Read 5401 times)

Clint Ormosen · « **on:** February 20, 2011, 08:11:24 PM »

Well.......it wasn't a total disaster. Engine obviously needs more run time, hard to get a steady run. Takeoff was interesting as the plane wanted to come in on me durring the rollout. A tweak of the nose wheel helped some, but still does it. Level flight is rock solid upright/inverted. Rounds are ok, but I need to adjust handle moments. Inside corners are ok, but outside ones cause a loss in line tension. Hingelines have not been sealed yet so I expect to get some improvement in corners by doing that. Going to dissasemble the drivetrain tonight and check for crap in my filters and engine tightness.

Surprisingly, all the cockpit detail stayed put.

wwwarbird · « **Reply #1 on:** February 20, 2011, 08:29:34 PM »

Did you give the B40 a good break in on the stand? I usually don't put a lot of weight in "proper" break in procedures myself, I put 'em on and fly, but I do know the B40 prefers and definitely responds to a good break in. I've always heard to break the B40 in per the manual instructions, to the word. I've done so on two brand new ones and both ended up being excellent runners as soon as this was done. I've witnessed a few more with the same procedure with the same results.

Without digging up an instruction sheet, repetitive two to three minute runs at a slightly rich setting with complete cooling in between comes to mind. Use a 10x4 prop for a light load. Run it this way until there is at least 30 minutes on the engine before you fly it. I can remember actually hearing the engine change pitch on it's own right around the 25 minute mark.

Don Hutchinson AMA5402 · « **Reply #2 on:** February 20, 2011, 08:40:48 PM »

With a tricycle landing gear, try holding a little down elevator until the model has picked up some speed. With no weight on the front wheel, the "P" factor tends to turn the nose into the circle. Had this problem with the F-86, at first I thought the inside wheel was dragging!
Don

Clint Ormosen · « **Reply #3 on:** February 20, 2011, 09:15:23 PM »

Quote from: wwwarbird on February 20, 2011, 08:29:34 PM

Did you give the B40 a good break in on the stand? I usually don't put a lot of weight in "proper" break in procedures myself, I put 'em on and fly, but I do know the B40 prefers and definitely responds to a good break in. I've always heard to break the B40 in per the manual instructions, to the word. I've done so on two brand new ones and both ended up being excellent runners as soon as this was done. I've witnessed a few more with the same procedure with the same results.

Without digging up an instruction sheet, repetitive two to three minute runs at a slightly rich setting with complete cooling in between comes to mind. Use a 10x4 prop for a light load. Run it this way until there is at least 30 minutes on the engine before you fly it. I can remember actually hearing the engine change pitch on it's own right around the 25 minute mark.

Yes, this Brodak was broken in as per the instuctions (to the letter) plus near 1 hr bench time. I know the Brodaks take a while to "come in". I have several that perform real well.

Quote from: Don Hutchinson AMA5402 on February 20, 2011, 08:40:48 PM

With a tricycle landing gear, try holding a little down elevator until the model has picked up some speed. With no weight on the front wheel, the "P" factor tends to turn the nose into the circle. Had this problem with the F-86, at first I thought the inside wheel was dragging!
Don

Thanks for that info, Don. I didn't know that trick as this is the first trike stunter I have ever flown. I'll give it a try.

John Christensen · « **Reply #4 on:** February 23, 2011, 12:56:16 PM »

I launched Jeff Welliver's Tempest many times. He would keep a little down in his handle on the takeoff. I would make sure that there was weight on the front wheel and it was pressing into the ground on the launch otherwise Jeff would have problems. Jeff also like to start the engine upright and we had a set procedure on the exchange of the plane.

Steve Helmick · « **Reply #5 on:** February 23, 2011, 04:58:13 PM »

It wouldn't hurt to make the outboard main wheel drag some. Sometime you might just need it to stop the ground roll quicker to get under 8 minutes anyway. It'll help with the takeoff, tho.

Various ways to do that....less clearance with the wheel collar (if used), a piece of fuel hose compressed a bit, a wire whisker drag brake, or just a tighter fit on the axle will work. I found that out because the Skylark's Bolly LG has toe out on the inboard wheel...and not just a little. I didn't know what to do...thought about applying heat to the LG, like pitching a prop, but ended up just drilling the hole in the wheel smaller on the outboard wheel. Works perfect.

Steve

Ted Fancher · « **Reply #6 on:** February 23, 2011, 07:25:12 PM »

Quote from: Steve Helmick on February 23, 2011, 04:58:13 PM

It wouldn't hurt to make the outboard main wheel drag some. Sometime you might just need it to stop the ground roll quicker to get under 8 minutes anyway. It'll help with the takeoff, tho.

Various ways to do that....less clearance with the wheel collar (if used), a piece of fuel hose compressed a bit, a wire whisker drag brake, or just a tighter fit on the axle will work. I found that out because the Skylark's Bolly LG has toe out on the inboard wheel...and not just a little. I didn't know what to do...thought about applying heat to the LG, like pitching a prop, but ended up just drilling the hole in the wheel smaller on the outboard wheel. Works perfect. Steve

Clint,

Lift the airplane by the point of the spinner and the tip of the tail. If the inboard wing drops (perhaps due to an excessively long inboard wing...not unusual in that era) the thrust line of the engine may well fall "outside" of the spanwise location of the CG (like an All American with its three inch longer inboard wing). If that is the case and there is not a lot of engine offset there will be a "moment" between the CG and the thrust that will try to turn the airplane in on launch until the speed increases. If that is the case it may be necessary to add tip weight until the spanwise CG falls in line with the thrustline (at a minimum).

It is possible this could make the ship hinge in corners which might well require a tab on the outboard flap.

The bottom line is that the CG must be "outboard" of the thrustline. If not, turns toward the pilot will be an issue.

If the CG location is OK relative to the thrust line than a little down elevator and a takeoff roll long enough to build up speed is the best solution.

Ted

Clint Ormosen · « **Reply #7 on:** February 23, 2011, 08:02:29 PM »

Thanks for the ideas guys. I already set the outboard wheel to drag a little. I'll check out the spanwise CG as the Tempest inboard wing is 2 inches longer. Bart is adamant that the plane needs no tip weight, but I built a box into it anyway, just in case.

John Leidle · « **Reply #8 on:** February 23, 2011, 08:49:30 PM »

How close is the Tempest & Electra related? For some reson I thought they were virtully the same plane other than fuse design & one has trike gear. I'm thinking they should pretty much fly equal.
John

Clint Ormosen · « **Reply #9 on:** February 24, 2011, 08:15:07 AM »

Quote from: John Leidle on February 23, 2011, 08:49:30 PM

How close is the Tempest & Electra related? For some reson I thought they were virtully the same plane other than fuse design & one has trike gear. I'm thinking they should pretty much fly equal.
John

Other than they use the same wing, I don't know. You'll have to ask Bart.

John Miller · « **Reply #10 on:** February 24, 2011, 11:43:26 AM »

They essentially use the same wing, H. stab, and moments.

Bart Klapinski · « **Reply #11 on:** February 24, 2011, 12:44:30 PM »

Hi everyone. It's been a while since I've been on the computer. Just no time lately. Clint----your Tempest is dead gorgeous and I hope you get the bugs out of it soon. The first and second Tempests had the same tail moments as Dick's Electra which was 13.75. My other two used a 14" tail moment. That is---from hinge to hinge. The nose was shorter due to the trike gear and that was a quarter inch less. I did play in that area ---an eighth inch at a time but I went shorter only a quarter inch. That was with a Red Head McCoy .40. Dick nor I ever used any wing tip weight at all and there was never a provision in the wing for any. The wing on the Tempest is exactly the same as in the Tempest except the little angle cut at the trailing edge outside of the flap.The control set up was the same except for my #4 plane. The horns were a little taller which gave me a little more leverage at the handle.The degree of elevator to flap movement remained the same at 37-45. I set the plane to roll straight ahead and used just a little down elevator at release. I used about one or two degrees of side thrust and some times a tad of down----depending on the plane. Back in the day we didn't use any adjustables and sealing the hinge line was unheard of. A lot can be done with sealing tape and can make up for the lack of wing tip weight. The Electras and tempests all seemed to fly well with good corners and no roll-in tendancies. Don't fly the model too slowly. I tipically few using lines that measured 65' from center to center. I tried one at 63' and all I did was richen the engine a bit. I have flown several other Tempests that were built correctly and they all flew well. I hope this helps get the plane flying better. Mine needs a cockpit and it will be ready to cover. Will I need to eat some Crow? Best to all, Bart

Bart Klapinski · « **Reply #12 on:** February 24, 2011, 12:51:17 PM »

Hi Clint. I was looking more closely at the pretty pix of the Tempest. Part of your engine trouble may be that the air exit holes in the cowl are too small. If you really don't like the plane after VSC-------- there will be a place for it on MY wall. LOL.

Bart

Clint Ormosen · « **Reply #13 on:** February 24, 2011, 07:00:09 PM »

Thanks for all the insight on the plane, Bart. Glad you like it!

Shultzie · « **Reply #14 on:** February 25, 2011, 08:52:45 AM »

Just a few shots for the memories...
GADS! WE WERE ALL SO YOUNG AND GOOD LOOKING!

john e. holliday · « **Reply #15 on:** February 25, 2011, 11:05:41 AM »

And he is still good looking.

Too bad I am a male.

Oh, the plane is gorgeous too.

Ted Fancher · « **Reply #16 on:** February 25, 2011, 01:28:33 PM »

Quote from: Clint Ormosen on February 23, 2011, 08:02:29 PM

Thanks for the ideas guys. I already set the outboard wheel to drag a little. I'll check out the spanwise CG as the Tempest inboard wing is 2 inches longer. Bart is adamant that the plane needs no tip weight, but I built a box into it anyway, just in case.

Hi Clilnt,

Maybe Bart's didn't. Yours is a different airplane. Do you have any engine offset?

Ted

John Leidle · « **Reply #17 on:** February 25, 2011, 07:57:38 PM »

Thanks Bart, I'd like to have you fly my Electra but I doubt I'll be in Tucson any remote chance you will go to Muncie this July?
John Leidle

Bill Little · « **Reply #18 on:** February 27, 2011, 01:16:18 AM »

Well, if I EVER get to build one, I know the color scheme I will use! LOL!! (I'm KINDA partial to red on a stunt plane.

)

Thanks for the picture, Don.

Big Bear

Clint Ormosen · « **Reply #19 on:** February 28, 2011, 12:32:28 AM »

Quote from: Bill Little on February 27, 2011, 01:16:18 AM

Well, if I EVER get to build one, I know the color scheme I will use! LOL!! (I'm KINDA partial to red on a stunt plane. )

Thanks for the picture, Don.

Big Bear

You know that's orange, not red, don't you?

Clint Ormosen · « **Reply #20 on:** February 28, 2011, 12:33:50 AM »

Quote from: Ted Fancher on February 25, 2011, 01:28:33 PM

Hi Clilnt,

Maybe Bart's didn't. Yours is a different airplane. Do you have any engine offset?

Ted

Point taken, Ted.
Only a degree or two on engine offset.

Bart Klapinski · « **Reply #21 on:** April 03, 2011, 10:19:57 PM »

Hi all. I'm happy to see some interest in the Electra--Tempest models. Just a few things to mention here. My first Electra was all red with a little black and gold trim. The second was white with metallic green and gold outline.
The first Tempest was all white with red and medium blue trim and a gold outline. The second model was all white with orange and dark metallic black with gold outline. #3 was white with red and dark blue with gold outline and #4 was white with red and black trim with the gold outline. All the trim schemes were as in the pix in the above post.All six planes needed very little flight trim and the red Electra flew perfectly right off the building board. My second Electra and one or two Tempests used just a tad of down thrust. All models used just a bit of out thrust. The #2 and 3 tempests had sliding canopies.
I flew Clint's Tempest at VSC .The wings was not quite level and he had a bit too much flap deflection but, it flew well and had no other bad tendencies except for the two noted trim issues. When Clint does the corrections I'm going to steel it from him. If I can be of further help----I'll check back in on this column---or I'm at bkstuntman@aol.com

Happy flying,
Bart

James Mills · « **Reply #22 on:** April 03, 2011, 11:39:39 PM »

Quote from: Shultzie on February 25, 2011, 08:52:45 AM

Just a few shots for the memories...
GADS! WE WERE ALL SO YOUNG AND GOOD LOOKING!

Don,
Cool pictures, I like the one of Bart in front of the blackboard of the '67 Nats (I wasn't here yet

}.

James

Clint Ormosen · « **Reply #23 on:** April 04, 2011, 12:17:32 AM »

Quote from: James Mills on April 03, 2011, 11:39:39 PM

Don,
Cool pictures, I like the one of Bart in front of the blackboard of the '67 Nats (I wasn't here yet }.

James

.......Neither was I.......

Shultzie · « **Reply #24 on:** April 04, 2011, 09:37:38 AM »

Quote from: Clint Ormosen on April 04, 2011, 12:17:32 AM

.......Neither was I.......

Here is food for thought?
Since both you and James weren't around yet........hummmm?
You don't spozzzzzzzzzzzzthat just maaaaaaaaaaaybe that either or both of you just might have some DNA in your veins.... :!that could match either the Klapinski-or Shultz Clan?

James Mills · « **Reply #25 on:** April 04, 2011, 09:56:16 AM »

Quote from: Shultzie on April 04, 2011, 09:37:38 AM

Here is food for thought?
Since both you and James weren't around yet........hummmm?
You don't spozzzzzzzzzzzzthat just maaaaaaaaaaaybe that either or both of you just might have some DNA in your veins.... :!that could match either the Klapinski-or Shultz Clan?

Not unless there is a Missouri tie with southern Irish in there someplace

. I do fly with a fellow who taught Bart alot about flying and building (his chest still pops a good foot or two when he talks about Bart's ability).

James

Clint Ormosen · « **Reply #26 on:** April 04, 2011, 09:27:42 PM »

Quote from: Shultzie on April 04, 2011, 09:37:38 AM

Here is food for thought?
Since both you and James weren't around yet........hummmm?
You don't spozzzzzzzzzzzzthat just maaaaaaaaaaaybe that either or both of you just might have some DNA in your veins.... :!that could match either the Klapinski-or Shultz Clan?

Could be with me. I was born in Anaheim!