Model airplanes are now Drones

[kevin king]

[Chuck Matheny]

This is the aftermath of having the self serving AMA deciding years ago that they needed to be "all inclusive" and "embrace"  RC "DRONE" flight ops...even those that are capable of beyond line of sight operation.
The AMA can claim they do not allow BLOS flight..but come on now, who is stupid enough to believe that anyone with $1000s wrapped up in a sophisticated Drone is going to be satisfied doing laps around a AMA Club Field all day...?
This was the original sin that made all other modes of model plane flight "DRONES" in the eyes of BIG BROTHER.
We became guilty and a liability by association.
The AMA should have SHUNNED all BLOS CAPABLE DRONES if they had the best interests of the membership at heart.

So in the spirit of "all inclusiveness" the FAA just labels  all toy aircraft "drones" and that is that.
Similar to gun control..the only model plane flyers who will pay heed to the regulations and the NOTAMS are the Law Abiding Flyers.

[John Gluth]

    To the technically challenged,(which includes apparently significant FAA staff if not AMA staff) non-modeler public, all model or miniature flying craft are RC drones. Thus, the buz word drone in media. Your “original sin”, public awareness of hovering quad “drones” became the default fad mistaking ANY miniature aircraft as RC. Consider assumptions free-flighters have to contend with.

    Significantly non-modeler, misbehaved drone owners cause regulation of AMA modelers!
   
    Further the valid parlance, radio control, gave way to technically challenged term “remote control”. I have considered that in fact, only controline would be more validly “remote control”! Oh yeah, never mind FAA attempting to regulate controline at maximum altitude of less than 75 feet!

[john e. holliday]

Well I blame this on those that have absolutely no common sense.

[Chuck Matheny]

Well I blame this on those that have absolutely no common sense.

Doc...I think that  Progressives have been trained to believe that  "Common Sense" is usually wrong.
This is how you get people to believe in things that no sane person would believe is true.
Also....
"Inside every Progressive beats the heart of a Totalitarian" and so now that the Nintendo Baby Generation have come of age and are now running the USA .......no amount of government over reach surprises me.

[Dave_Trible]

This seems to be about the Canadians but I sure understand their consternation.  BTW the rules our hobby (mostly just R/C thanks to great effort by some) are contained in the FAA Reauthorization Act- passed and signed into law Oct. 5th,  2018...........

Dave

[Dwayne Donnelly]

Yes it's Canada, all RC pilots must be licensed and all planes registered and logs kept, thankfully not C/L, and F/F.

[Brett Buck]

As always, remember the phrase "Not a UAS" (unmanned aerial system), because there is no "ground control station".

    Brett

[Rusty]

When this all started with the AMA deciding to advocate for toy drone owners, I called the AMA president.  (I forgot his name)  I told him that model airplanes are different than than drones because we are "craftsman" and not plug and play like drones are.  He said it was in the best interest for all that they be included because the FAA / Congress was going to group all of us together anyway. 

Now several years later, I am finding out that modern R/C planes are like drones.  In the last months club meeting a club officer said many people in the club were going to have to learn to fly without "SAFE" turned on.   This Spektrum technology keeps the plane level and from flying too far away.  It will actually fly the plane if the, so called pilot is not.   I found that amusing.   I have a mix of 72mhz controlled planes and Spektrum and Futaba 2.4.   There are actually people in the club that could not fly a plane without SAFE.   Geez, I remember in the beginning, for me in 1962 that if you could not BUILD or FLY your plane, you was SOL.

I would not trade my modeling experience for ANYTHING this modern world calls R/C hobby.  I truly enjoyed building my models and flying them.  (some single channel ones flew away, but the flew!!!) 

The bottom line is groups in control change definitions.  My opinion is that if you cannot build your plane AND fly it without SAFE system you are not in the model airplane hobby. 

Thanks

[Dan McEntee]

When this all started with the AMA deciding to advocate for toy drone owners, I called the AMA president.  (I forgot his name)  I told him that model airplanes are different than than drones because we are "craftsman" and not plug and play like drones are.  He said it was in the best interest for all that they be included because the FAA / Congress was going to group all of us together anyway. 

Now several years later, I am finding out that modern R/C planes are like drones.  In the last months club meeting a club officer said many people in the club were going to have to learn to fly without "SAFE" turned on.   This Spektrum technology keeps the plane level and from flying too far away.  It will actually fly the plane if the, so called pilot is not.   I found that amusing.   I have a mix of 72mhz controlled planes and Spektrum and Futaba 2.4.   There are actually people in the club that could not fly a plane without SAFE.   Geez, I remember in the beginning, for me in 1962 that if you could not BUILD or FLY your plane, you was SOL.

I would not trade my modeling experience for ANYTHING this modern world calls R/C hobby.  I truly enjoyed building my models and flying them.  (some single channel ones flew away, but the flew!!!) 

The bottom line is groups in control change definitions.  My opinion is that if you cannot build your plane AND fly it without SAFE system you are not in the model airplane hobby. 

Thanks

   That is interesting and actually pretty sad!! People today just do not want to tackle a challenge, just for the sake of it. I guess we are supposed to be grateful that they want to participate at all, if you want to call that participation.

  Type at you later,
   Dan McEntee

[Chuck Matheny]

When this all started with the AMA deciding to advocate for toy drone owners, I called the AMA president.  (I forgot his name)  I told him that model airplanes are different than than drones because we are "craftsman" and not plug and play like drones are.  He said it was in the best interest for all that they be included because the FAA / Congress was going to group all of us together anyway. 

Now several years later, I am finding out that modern R/C planes are like drones.  In the last months club meeting a club officer said many people in the club were going to have to learn to fly without "SAFE" turned on.   This Spektrum technology keeps the plane level and from flying too far away.  It will actually fly the plane if the, so called pilot is not.   I found that amusing.   I have a mix of 72mhz controlled planes and Spektrum and Futaba 2.4.   There are actually people in the club that could not fly a plane without SAFE.   Geez, I remember in the beginning, for me in 1962 that if you could not BUILD or FLY your plane, you was SOL.

I would not trade my modeling experience for ANYTHING this modern world calls R/C hobby.  I truly enjoyed building my models and flying them.  (some single channel ones flew away, but the flew!!!) 

The bottom line is groups in control change definitions.  My opinion is that if you cannot build your plane AND fly it without SAFE system you are not in the model airplane hobby. 

Thanks

I love the fact that they call it a SAFE system. Does it also monitor the pilot's vital signs and return the plane to base if the pilot's pulse or BP drift outside of the acceptable parameters...?

Years ago this topic came up at RCU..."ARE YOU PROUD OF YOUR CHINESE RTF PLANE" and it really was chilling to see that the majority of replies were basically "Yes I am proud of my RTF / ARF because I had to work for it"
I think that most replies like this came from people who live every day of their lives on maxxed out credit and who will never know what it's like to  actually own their own home. They pay to have EVERYTHING DONE FOR THEM.
Another typical reply was..."I DON'T HAVE TIME TO BUILD"..yet you know damn well they spend 40 hours a week glued to various ELECTRONIC BABYSITTERS that hog most of their free time...[like what I'm doing right here]...... 
 

[Rusty]

Interesting thread. 

Are they proud of their Chinese drones?  Yes.



 

[Chuck Matheny]

Interesting thread. 

Are they proud of their Chinese drones?  YES, you can bet your last original S1 kit on that.  In my club at the monthly meetings they have "show and tell."  I participate by showing planes I build. Last year I scratch built a Don Muddiman Flying Machine and a Joe Bridi Gyro.  Also, I  built a 1970 Top Flite red box P39. Can you believe I am the only builder in the club.  They are actually astounded when I show the plans.   It is hard to believe coming from a time when ALL planes were built.

Now for the rest of story.  There are guys who PROUDLY show Chinese foam ARF beer cooler planes.  They describe their project as building a kit.  I'm talking about eflight planes.   Unbelievable.   

it's sad  [but should not be a surprise] to see the soft, spoiled and effeminately raised boys of the Nintendo Baby / MTV Generation with no desire to build  things that require physical effort, skill and knowledge.
Coincidentally the vast majority of girls have NEVER HAD any interest in any of the hobbies that involve spending time in the workshop.
This generation of men that spent most of their free time as children playing  indoors...[either in "Liberated Mommy's" totally safe and sterile living room or at the Kinderkare that "Liberated Mommy" drops them off at every day]....have now come of age and we can now see for ourselves the aftermath.
For many of them, just finding the energy to get through the day at work, then sit in line at McDonalds, then rush home to smoke that 1st bowl they spent 1/2 their day at work dreaming about is the routine...followed up with some quality time spent with their "adult electronic baby sitters".
Of course there's no time to build a plane.

[Rusty]

A thought came to mind (not screened by the thought police yet) that "maybe" the WOKE ideology could be used to increase the building and flying fraternity.

"Maybe" the AMA and "possibly" president Biden could publish material that says something like, "If you were born a birthing person; but identify as a non-birthing person model airplanes is for you. Model Airplanes is the perfect way to prove to the world you was not meant to be a birthing person because one could be described as having "brass balls" in this hobby."

The media could psychologically entice these identity challenged people with unlimited ways to further gain attention by showing similar people with ring master tattoos, control handles and stunt hangar tattoos.   

This will spur extremism and could lead some to get threaded brass inserts (dubro) surgically implanted in their forehead so a glow plug could be installed.

As odd as this humorous writing is, the real woke community could actually embrace it if president Biden and AOC pushed it.   

[Ken Culbertson]

A thought came to mind (not screened by the thought police yet) that "maybe" the WOKE ideology could be used to increase the building and flying fraternity.

"Maybe" the AMA and "possibly" president Biden could publish material that says something like, "If you were born a birthing person; but identify as a non-birthing person model airplanes is for you. Model Airplanes is the perfect way to prove to the world you was not meant to be a birthing person because one could be described as having "brass balls" in this hobby."

The media could psychologically entice these identity challenged people with unlimited ways to further gain attention by showing similar people with ring master tattoos, control handles and stunt hangar tattoos.   

This will spur extremism and could lead some to get threaded brass inserts (dubro) surgically implanted in their forehead so a glow plug could be installed.

As odd as this
humorous writing is, the real woke community could actually embrace it if president Biden and AOC pushed it.   

Not a bad idea but the problem would be choosing the top 20 since they would all be "identifying" as a top 5 and failure of the judges to recognize that would get the judge canceled.
Maybe just a larger Walker Trophy with room for 60 names a year?  On the upside, we would only need one set of Port-a-Potties. 

Ken

In retrospect, would BadAss motors be considered gender neutral and not be banned? 

[Rusty]

Well, one thing they wouldn't have to worry about is glow fuel accidentally spilling on one's family jewels. 

[Steve Helmick]

Sad to say, DuBro doesn't make brass threaded inserts in 1/4-32.    Steve

[Steve Helmick]

The current problem with MAAC is that they are being very slow (purposely?) in approving flying sites. It appears to be a power play on the part of MAAC to 'put the wood' to any clubs that have voiced opposition to MAAC leadership on various issues, such as drones and the reciprocity for AMA and MAAC membership. This kind of crap happens when R/C sport fliers run things, IMO.

As I understand it, the guys in BC and Alberta aren't yet allowed to fly CL at their fields. I went so far as to ask if I could fly my model at the Richmond BC site, if I didn't enter their contest, without buying MAAC membership. Nope, no can do. The really stupid thing is that just like AMA insurance, home owner's or renter's insurance takes the 1st hit, before AMA or MAAC insurance chips in. A lot of people don't understand that, so here's your sign.  Steve

[Dwayne Donnelly]

The current problem with MAAC is that they are being very slow (purposely?) in approving flying sites. It appears to be a power play on the part of MAAC to 'put the wood' to any clubs that have voiced opposition to MAAC leadership on various issues, such as drones and the reciprocity for AMA and MAAC membership. This kind of crap happens when R/C sport fliers run things, IMO.

As I understand it, the guys in BC and Alberta aren't yet allowed to fly CL at their fields. I went so far as to ask if I could fly my model at the Richmond BC site, if I didn't enter their contest, without buying MAAC membership. Nope, no can do. The really stupid thing is that just like AMA insurance, home owner's or renter's insurance takes the 1st hit, before AMA or MAAC insurance chips in. A lot of people don't understand that, so here's your sign.  Steve

I'm in contact with my zone director he said they are trying to get some of the exemption back mostly the logs, keeping logs of every flight is absurd especially  for a sport flyer that brings multiple   planes to fly, and yes closing C/L circles makes no sense at all.

[Chuck Matheny]

When I joined the AMA in 1985 I was amazed at how liberal the safety rules were.
Safety thongs weren't even mandatory, neither were fuel shut offs and to this day it  still amazes me how dangerous it is to fly pylon.
When will [[[The Progressives]]] demand that environmental Impact Studies must be done for ALL CURRENT FLYING SITES with soil samples taken from the pit area as well as professionally done noise level surveys, criminal background checks, breathilizers and urinalysis  for all flyers  and catalytic converters / yearly smog certification for all engines...?

Imagine all the jobs they could create for Compliance Officers...?
You can't get any more progressive than that...!

[Steve Glass]

Drone nearly brought down a Hawker Hurricane at a busy show.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-england-derbyshire-64764865

Steve

[Brett Buck]

Drone nearly brought down a Hawker Hurricane at a busy show.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-england-derbyshire-64764865

Steve

  I don't think anyone seriously disputes the concept of regulating drones. It's conflating commercial and amateur drone operators with traditional hobby RC that has led to this situation. As previously discussed at great length *drones were always going to heavily regulated* and that is a correct and proper response to drone operation.   It is also clear that traditional hobby RC didn't deserve anything and were never a significant problem. 

    The gray area are the RC "toy purchaser" group, which makes up the vast majority of the AMA membership. I presume MAAC is the same. The AMA and MAAC have tried to play both sides of the street to get themselves inserted as the official government gatekeepers. So they didn't make or insist on strong distinctions, they wanted to be the one-stop shop for all of it. They sort of succeeded, but also were steamrolled by the commercial drone operators, so hobby RC got saddled with a bunch of unwarranted and unnecessary regulation.

   This has been playing out for bordering on 10 years now, you could see how it was likely to go. Any number of us have attempted to get the AMA to see the danger/risk. but those ARF/RTF toy catalog ads pay the bills for the many off-topic and unnecessary functions of the AMA, so that's how they went. Only after it was *far* too late did they see the danger, apparently, and now they are stuck.

      Brett

[John Gluth]

Huh,  thanks for explaining why a past AMA president exclaimed that "drones are the future of model aviation."

[Brett Buck]

Huh,  thanks for explaining why a past AMA president exclaimed that "drones are the future of model aviation."

  Bob "Drones are our future!" Brown - who promptly got unelected.

    My opinion is that they thought they could cash in on the drone fad, but wildly overestimated their own influence, and got completely steamrolled by companies like Amazon, etc. , looking to do drone deliveries. I am not entirely sure that, even now, they realize the scope of it.

      I would add also that Rich Hanson is a reasonable person and a nice guy, talking to him at an event, you would like him.  But I think the entire "corporate psychology" of the AMA is so extremely distorted and, for lack of a better word, "grandiose", that they really can't see reality any more, or only under extreme circumstances. I think they finally got a dose of reality with the 400 foot rule. But I haven't seen any indication that they have really "get it".

       Brett

[Paul Smith]

So if RC models are "just like drones" you just go out and fly them anywhere any time like the kids who do that with drones.

[Chuck Matheny]

  Bob "Drones are our future!" Brown - who promptly got unelected.

    My opinion is that they thought they could cash in on the drone fad, but wildly overestimated their own influence, and got completely steamrolled by companies like Amazon, etc. , looking to do drone deliveries. I am not entirely sure that, even now, they realize the scope of it.

      I would add also that Rich Hanson is a reasonable person and a nice guy, talking to him at an event, you would like him.  But I think the entire "corporate psychology" of the AMA is so extremely distorted and, for lack of a better word, "grandiose", that they really can't see reality any more, or only under extreme circumstances. I think they finally got a dose of reality with the 400 foot rule. But I haven't seen any indication that they have really "get it".

       Brett

The AMA never learned their lesson from the Park Flyer Revolution that never materialized anywhere near where I live.
How many years hass it been since the AMA launched the totally ridiculous PPP [Park Pilot Program]...?
I can count on 2 or 3 fingers the number of "Park Flyers" I've ever seen [outside of full fledged AMA Members].
I still recall AMA Official Greg Hawn [Hahn?] referring to all those openly critical of the PPP as BOTTOM FEEDERS......

[Brett Buck]

The AMA never learned their lesson from the Park Flyer Revolution that never materialized anywhere near where I live.
How many years hass it been since the AMA launched the totally ridiculous PPP [Park Pilot Program]...?
I can count on 2 or 3 fingers the number of "Park Flyers" I've ever seen [outside of full fledged AMA Members].
I still recall AMA Official Greg Hawn [Hahn?] referring to all those openly critical of the PPP as BOTTOM FEEDERS......

  Hahn. And you note he is gone now. I think they may have had similar ideas with park flyers, but park fliers were generally inoffensive and not going to get them in trouble with regulation.

     Drones, on the other hand, were *always going to be heavily regulated*, there was no other possible outcome, and, there were far bigger players behind them with commercial uses. So the AMA *never stood even the slightest chance* of controlling how that was going to develop. The Amazon HQ coffee fund probably spends more money in a month than the AMA has taken in in 110ish years. It was utterly hopeless right from the start. Only delusions of grandeur and believing their own BS could have ever led to relatively intelligent people to think they were going to be able to control this to their own ends.

      Brett

[Brett Buck]

So if RC models are "just like drones" you just go out and fly them anywhere any time like the kids who do that with drones.

 Thus illustrating the point that the people who caused the problem are the last ones to pay the price, whereas other people who were operating responsibly and safely already are burdened with compliance.

       Brett

[Dave Hull]

One reason why....

[Brad LaPointe]

Well someone at MAAC just did something right. Control line flyers now don’t require a drone license . No need to register every model and to keep a log . Combat flyers would have had a nightmare!

Brad

[Chuck Matheny]

Well someone at MAAC just did something right. Control line flyers now don’t require a drone license . No need to register every model and to keep a log . Combat flyers would have had a nightmare!

Brad

So it seems that the new law makes an OUTLAW of everyone with a stable of RC planes that haven't been registered yet.
I'm not saying that they will need to expand San Quentin to accomodate all the new RC OUTLAWS, but technically...
About 15 years ago I received a letter from a federal agency [the FDA.?] telling me that I needed to inventory all my livestock and submit it to them. This wasn't them just picking on me but ALL HOBBY RANCHERS and all FULL SCALE RANCHERS.
How did they KNOW I was running a small livestock operation for my own consumption...?
I had been using a credit card to buy feed and possibly their EYE IN THE SKY alerted them to what I was up to.
I phoned them and calmly told the voice at the other end that I thought this was ridiculous.
HE AGREED WITH ME and told me to disregard the directive......I couldn't believe my ears...!!

[Brett Buck]

So it seems that the new law makes an OUTLAW of everyone with a stable of RC planes that haven't been registered yet.
I'm not saying that they will need to expand San Quentin to accomodate all the new RC OUTLAWS, but technically...

   That has been true for a while now - why do you think they were fighting so hard? Register, take the test, comply with Remote ID, stay under 400 feet, or you are illegal.

      Brett

[Chuck Matheny]

   That has been true for a while now - why do you think they were fighting so hard? Register, take the test, comply with Remote ID, stay under 400 feet, or you are illegal.

      Brett

What is chilling is to see the number of people who say..."What's the big deal...? It isn't that hard to comply with more rules and restrictions".
I believe the bulk of these comments come from those who consider themselves Liberals....because you see, only Conservatives want things [like fewer rules and regulations] to remain the way they were.

[Brett Buck]

What is chilling is to see the number of people who say..."What's the big deal...? It isn't that hard to comply with more rules and restrictions".

      I haven't seen a lot of that in this case, but yes, the "give up freedom for safety or to go along" is a disturbing trend, Wuhan flu being the most obvious and most egregious case.

     But in the case of quadcopter drones and FPV RC, I think doing *something* was perfectly appropriate, because they are almost always used irresponsibly, and for certain, the general public were going to demand something be done about it. It was *dead certain to happen* in some form. What that is, if the current restrictions for quadcopter drones are appropriate, too much, or not enough is a debatable point.

    Just as clearly, traditional hobby RC certainly were not causing a significant problem  with a demonstrated acceptable record over half a century, and did not deserve any sort of sanction. They were OK as they were.

    I am torn on the "ARF patrol" RC sport fliers, because I find them almost uniformly annoying*, and they aren't too responsible with what they do, they actually didn't cause much problem for anyone and there is no reason that they should be unduly burdened. If it weren't for drones, no one would have bothered them. We even had a special carveout to isolate them.

    Unfortunately, the AMA (and presumably MAAC) didn't see the threat, or thought they could co-opt it for their own ends, and that certainly blew up in everyone's face. This despite any number of people warning them and spelling out exactly how it was going to go. By the time they got it, it was far too late, the die was cast.

     Brett

*I cannot talk to one of these guys without getting asked if I was going to "move up" to RC, and then get regaled about their modeling prowess for having assembled an RTF  or ARF trainer with workmanship I would have been embarrased with when I was 8. And always, every single time, in the first 30 seconds, they will *tell you how much they cost* and drop manufacturer names as if any of that mattered. Insufferable.
   

[John Gluth]

I would not trade my modeling experience for ANYTHING this modern world calls R/C hobby.  I truly enjoyed building my models and flying them.  (some single channel ones flew away, but the flew!!!) 

The bottom line is groups in control change definitions.  My opinion is that if you cannot build your plane AND fly it without SAFE system you are not in the model airplane hobby. 

Thanks

    What’s more, they don’t/can’t speak model airplane.

    For as long as I can remember RC community as been arrogant, they seem to perceive RC as some how superior. ANY airplane not RC as relatively lower tech, even primitive or obsolete. As if there is something wrong with any model that is not RC. I can’t make this up! One said, “Oh, you mean flying a plane on the end of a string? I didn’t think anyone did that anymore.” (that told me, he does not actually read Model Aviation)At the time I'd been to VSC, then were about 190 entries.
    Apparently for revenue, AMA enables this with more RC featured in Model Aviation. AMA has forgotten it’s roots in modeler craftsmen. I personally know an “AMA Fellow” that advises to convert my FF and CL airplanes to RC! Not allowing that modeling categories are a CHOICE! Only verifies the reason my CL friends consider RC to be the “DARK SIDE”.

    John

[Kreth]

I guess I’m getting old as I can’t remember when an AMA president was a competitor at any level of any of our disciplines. Sad.

[Norm Faith Jr.]

I guess I’m getting old as I can’t remember when an AMA president was a competitor at any level of any of our disciplines. Sad.

Correct me if I'm wrong. Wasn't Dave Brown AMA president at one time? World Champion, Masters, RC aerobatics.
Norm

[John Gluth]

Correct me if I'm wrong. Wasn't Dave Brown AMA president at one time? World Champion, Masters, RC aerobatics.
Norm

  That is the point, please refer to to post #23

[Dan McEntee]

Correct me if I'm wrong. Wasn't Dave Brown AMA president at one time? World Champion, Masters, RC aerobatics.
Norm

  Dave Brown was president from 1996 to 2007. Bob Brown was president most recently from 2012 to 2016. It was Bob Brown that made the comment about drones being the future of the AMA, I do believe.  Dave was a well know modeler. I don't know who Bob Brown was , before or since he held the office.

  Type at you later,
    Dan McEntee

[Brett Buck]

Correct me if I'm wrong. Wasn't Dave Brown AMA president at one time? World Champion, Masters, RC aerobatics.
Norm

  Yes, he was an absolute world-class RC Pattern champion, master modeler, and also a moderately successful businessman, to the point that his company was named "Ohio Superstar" and everyone knew who it was. Before him, Don Lowe, earlier RC champion with a similar background.

     That was a *very long time ago*, and even at the time and during Brown's era, the AMA went hard-over to "magazine business" and just like a lot of others, became a profit center driven by advertising trying to mimic the tremendous success of RCM - the first "adult" model magazine, that is, not directed towards children's marketing. The people behind RCM were among the first to fully grasp that modeling, RC in particular, *wasn't about kids*, and wasn't about "aviation" per se.  Modeling was its own end. That is the realiity, since the beginning of the Space Age much more than half a century ago.

     The AMA stuck with the "youth of today/leaders of tomorrow"  scam/talking point forever and even now continually misrepresents it, although they have adopted the same "Adult Toy Catalog" approach that RCM used. As soon as it became a scramble for advertisers, MA was just like all the others - but with a tax exemption. The latter is why MA still exists, whereas all the others have disappeared as the industry, predictably,  crashed. Note that it appears that the option to belong to AMA but not get MA in paper form is no longer obvious (and may not be possible). Why? It surely wouldn't be to force the circulation numbers higher so they can sell ad space, could it, now that they are the only game in town?

     It's very hard for CL competitors to see the full picture, because the AMA means competition rules, contest sanctions, the NATs, and site insurance to us. Without that, very few if us would belong to the AMA. That's maybe 5000 of us, in a total membership of maybe 300,000 - <2%. Assuming they are trying to serve the greater good, it would be highly irresponsible of them to primarily serve our needs to the detriment of the others. For most people, the AMA is a toy catalog, and many people flying buy-and-fly RC either never heard of or are only vaguely aware of the existence of CL or FF, and are only dimly aware that there are contests for model airplanes. They have never seen a contest, or anyone flying competitive RC Pattern, never mind us.

     So, of course they aren't doing sensible things from our perspective, and being a competitor, even in RC, is hardly any advantage. They are small-town businessmen running a magazine business, with a tax loophole. To maintain the loophole, they have to maintain the illusion of doing something more noble, and have a few things that are legitimately positive.  They are doing what makes sense to them and maybe, for the most part, doing it correctly. Ever once in a while, they get a reality check - like predictably getting steamrolled by Amazon/Google/UPS/FedEx and the general public over drones, but for the most part they are OK from their own perspective.

    Brett

[Jim Kraft]

 About 20 years ago, I use to fly my ignition planes at the high school yard. There was an assisted living facility across the street. Kids riding by on their bikes never even looked up, but the old guys across the street would come out to watch.

[Mike Griffin]

I do not want to contribute to thread drift so I will make this as short as I can.

I am a Drone technician and pilot for the Air Force Auxiliary or as it is better known The Civil Air Patrol and also the Cajun Navy.  I am also co-owner of a commercial drone company.  We have had to concur with everything the FAA has thrown at us due to the irresponsible actions of others.  We have Part 107, and have all our drones registered with the FAA.  Soon, we will have to put transponders on the machines which in short means that anyone with a cell phone will be able to pinpoint our location, drive up and rob us and/or steal our machines.  I also had to go through, Flight Release Training to become qualified as a Flight Release Officer (FRO) which was harder than being a FRO for our Cessna 172 and 182 fleet.  You would not believe the requirements I had to go through for this.

Just recently we were hired by a forensic engineering firm to inspect the roofs of 27 buildings and the terminal/concourse buildings at the New Orleans International airport.  The 27 buildings I refer to were outside the movement area (averaged about 100,000 sqft each) and the terminal building was INSIDE the movement area.  Here is what we had to do in order to shoot the job:

It is a no brainer to tell you this was in restricted/no fly airspace period.  We had to apply to the FAA for a waiver and this could have taken up to 30 days for a response so we had to tell the contractor we could not shoot the job until we received the OK from the FAA.  They were not happy but they said OK.  Once we received the waiver and OK from the FAA, we then had to have a representative from the Airport Administration Board approve it and they had to be present during the shoot.  In addition, we had to call the tower every time we switched locations.  Oh and someone at the airport forgot to tell security what we are doing so we had a cruiser pull up on us with their lights flashing in the middle of a shoot. 

When we got ready to shoot the roof of the terminal building and the concourses which are INSIDE the movement area, we had to gain access to the roof and launch the drone from there because this building alone was 657,000 square feet and, according to FAA regs, we had to keep the drone in VLOS at all times.  So, the airport had to assign us an escort who stayed with us the entire time we were shooting that building.

The entire job took 2 weeks.

The drones we use Like the DJI enterprise are around $6000 each and some that we use for the Air Force are $25,000 machines. Needless to say, we have substantial money tied up in these machines.

A side story:  The Air Force bought 450 of the DJI Phantom 4 drones (quadcopters)  for the Civil Air Patrol for search and rescue and emergency services at $1200 each or a total cost of $540,000 and sent them out.  Then, some genius said "wait a minute, these things are made in China and could have spyware on them".  They also had red cell (anti drone software) installed on them.  Soooooo.... they trashed them and then turned around and bought another 450 Skydio 2s which they said were made in the USA.  Welllll...as it turned out, all the components were made in China and they were only assembled here in the US.  The Arizona Wing of CAP had a $25,000 dollar machine fly away because they lost satellite contact.  So, the Government bought over a million dollars worth of these machines for the Civil Air Patrol and still do not have a viable program to fly them.

Sorry for the rambling but this is pretty much a hot subject with me. 

Bottom line:  Anything the government gets involved in turns into a Charlie Foxtrot.  It has been my experience through all this that the FAA does not want you flying anything.  Legitimate Drone Service companies like us are struggling to stay in business primarily because of government red tape and bulls**t.  The Civil Air Patrol is an example of how they even screw themselves.

Mike

[Paul Gibeault]

I only wish that was true. It was Transport Canada that came up with their definition of a drone. MAAC had no say and Transport Canada SPECIFICALLY stated in CARS 101.01(1) : Control line models do not fit the definition of an RPA. This was always the case... C/L models were never on Transport Canada's radar. It is MAAC that proposed C/L fliers be clumped in with R/C " Just because it's easier". Not for any other reason.

Paul Gibeault MAAC National C/L Chairman

p.s. Not quite sure why r/c drones take up time on a Control Line Forum, they have enough of their own forums...

Well someone at MAAC just did something right. Control line flyers now don’t require a drone license . No need to register every model and to keep a log . Combat flyers would have had a nightmare!

Brad