MiG 21 Stunter, did anyone ever design one?

[Steve Fitton]

Just one of those random questions that pops up....

I imagine a delta wing, even if it has a straight hinge line, is pretty far from optimal for stunt.

[Jared Hays]

Would like to see one!!!

[peabody]

Windy did a Mig once....not sure which one he based it on....

[Brett Buck]

Windy did a Mig once....not sure which one he based it on....

  None of them, it was just an "homage", not semi-scale.

    Brett

[Dan McEntee]

  None of them, it was just an "homage", not semi-scale.

    Brett

   Yeah, I'm thinking it was one of the "Sweeper" versions, and was just red with starts on it? Might be confusing that with something else
  Type at you later,
   Dan McEntee.

[Mike Griffin]

Steve that is an interesting idea.  

[Mike Keville]

Doubt if a stunter would be successful with that delta wing planform.  But if you want to talk Scale, I remember seeing the MiG-21 CL model by Roland Baltes and Keith Trostle.  Small model, it once hung from the ceiling at Jet Hangar Hobbies in So. Cal., K&B .40 Series 61 power.  Cute little thing.

I have the plans for it, plus some MiG-21 documentation booklets.

Sure wouldn't want to try it as a stunt ship.

[Brett Buck]

   Yeah, I'm thinking it was one of the "Sweeper" versions, and was just red with starts on it? Might be confusing that with something else

  Well, as he (or his ghostwriter) put it in the construction article, it was  intended to look like a random and ungainly assemblage of parts like something from Russia.  It was more-or-less a Sweeper, AKA MIG Sweeper.

   Interestingly, the MIG-21 actually looks pretty well-proportioned, unlike most of the Russian stuff, like that God-awful Sukoi attack plane.

     Brett

[Mike Griffin]

I don't think it could be a stunter at all but scale would be neat.  
Mike

[Dave_Trible]

Good use for those old needle nose spinners.

[Dan McEntee]

  I got some one's magazine plans for a C/L scale MIG-21 in my collection of stuff, not sure where I got them from. If some one had to have them I would for sure dig them out to make sure and trade them for something. I'm interested in trying C/L scale but not a MIG-21! I think there was a company in the US offering rides and a check out in the MIG-21 ten or 15 years ago. I would like to see on in the air, just for giggles and grins. Video I have seen on TV of them didn't give me the impression that they were of the best quality construction wise. They kind of looked like they were built from boiler plate! Bu they were in service a heck of a long time and a heck of a lot of them were built, I think.
  I checked out the thread on Windy's Sweeper and Jose Modesto mentions a MIG Sweeper in 1983. Might be photos on an old mag or Stunt News of it.
   Type at you later,
   Dan McEntee

[Bob Whitely]

Sure, already been done.  Bill Rutherford (spelling) flew one at the Nat's maybe
'75 or '76 something like that. He did a real nice job on it. Flew quite well.  He
also had a spinner made for it as the nose cone is a straight line from tip to
backplate. It was also counter sunk into the front of the nose as is the real one.
RJ

[Scott Richlen]

Windy's Mig was written up in an old Model Aviation and the plans are available (but expensive) from AMA.

I always liked the looks of the plane, sort of quirky, but neat-looking.  It had trike gear with the nose wheel offset.  Very cool paint job in red with the big commie stars on it.  But as a "Sweeper" it probably wouldn't fit in my garage, much less my basement.  Hey Steve: why not redesign/shrink it?  That would be pretty cool.  You could fly it at Eastern Shore and our contest in No. VA.

Brett already made a comment about Mig-21s on this string; hey Brett: take a look at the plans and tell us what modifications and shrinkage you'd make so Windy's Mig could be redesigned as a modern stunt-ship (for one, the flaps are probably too large, but what else?)

Scott

[Steve Fitton]

If I designed one, I would want it to be competitive in Open, which is asking a lot. 

it might need to be a MiG 21 SMT, mount the engine upright and the large dorsal spine hides the pipe.  Or maybe even a candidate for e power.

tracking down images from the Nats and the Mig Whitely described is probably the first step.

[phil c]

Just one of those random questions that pops up....

I imagine a delta wing, even if it has a straight hinge line, is pretty far from optimal for stunt.

Well, you could try a Fierce Arrow wing as a start.  Maybe increase the span for more area and ability to turn.  Any kind of scale looking fuselage would be very difficult to build light enough.  Plenty of room in the tail to use a scale all-moving stabilizer.  That would be something of a first.

[jose modesto]

photos of windy's Mig. Model was flown at the 1983 nats placing in the top five.Dont recall if it won the concourse that year.
The Mig By windy started life as the Numbers from Big Jim BJ design. 72" span with very large flaps. Windy being and artist created a model that was spectacular in apperance and never immagined by Big Jim.
the trike gear nose wheel was fabricated to act as the rear muffler mount. Windy threated the 1/8" misic wire, bent through tiger sixty muffler mount to hold both the landing gear and the muffler.
from 83 to 87 windy placed in the top five with the high aspect ratio and large flap models.
Wish i had photo of canopy detail spectacular.

jose Modesto

[Jared Hays]

Does Windy's MiG still exist Jose?

[Scott Richlen]

Whatever happened to Windy's MIG?   Did it go out in a blaze of glory and end up in that great flying circle in the sky?

[Mike Ferguson]

Crashed at a contest in Middlesex, NJ in 1984.

[Jared Hays]

Damn...

[jose modesto]

Wing folded. really impressive model. The finish was light and beautiful.The Model was unique for its time. 780 Sq 72" span. The flaps at the root were almost 5".
NOTE:The controls were 2/3 to one. The elevators were faster.Windy used a 6" bellcranck on the MiG with custom horns.
The next model in this series also folded the wings. It was either Relentles or Louisiana Lighting.

Jose Modesto

[Brett Buck]

Wing folded. really impressive model. The finish was light and beautiful.

   The finish was indeed exceptional. It was a classic example of "too big for 70 foot lines" phenomenon which tended to obscure that fact that it flew fairly well.

    Brett

[Jared Hays]

What caused the wings to fold on these bigger models of Windy's?  I know a couple months back I had started a topic on his Sweeper 900...not the blue one but the black and white one that was an I beam foam wing that also had 5" flaps and Jose said its wings folded...Is it just that they are too big and causing a weak point?  My dad's Stiletto wing is 770 sq in. and that plane is at least 27 years old.  Still flying no problems.

[Trostle]

Doubt if a stunter would be successful with that delta wing planform.  But if you want to talk Scale, I remember seeing the MiG-21 CL model by Roland Baltes and Keith Trostle.  Small model, it once hung from the ceiling at Jet Hangar Hobbies in So. Cal., K&B .40 Series 61 power.  Cute little thing.

I have the plans for it, plus some MiG-21 documentation booklets.

Sure wouldn't want to try it as a stunt ship.

Mike,

Thanks for the memory.  I designed and drew the plans for the CL scale MiG 21 in the Nov 69 issue of American Modeler.  Roland Baltes built the model and wrote the article.  He flew it at least once at a Nats in the early 70's but did not place very high.  I think Larry Wolfe of Jet Hangar still has it.  The Aeromodeller 71-72 Annual printed a copy of redrawn plans from the AM magazine.  Originally, we planned to bury the engine sort of mid length of the fuselage, but Roland opted to mount the engine in the nose to avoid having to use a long extension shaft.  Took a lot of lead weight to get it to balance properly.

Keith

[Scott Richlen]

That MiG-21 looks like a good candidate for electric.  Eliminate the lead weight by setting the battery well back.

On Windy's MIG, look at the Model Aviation magazine archives in the AMA site: March 1987 beginning on page 68.

Scott

[Derek Barry]

What caused the wings to fold on these bigger models of Windy's?  I know a couple months back I had started a topic on his Sweeper 900...not the blue one but the black and white one that was an I beam foam wing that also had 5" flaps and Jose said its wings folded...Is it just that they are too big and causing a weak point?  My dad's Stiletto wing is 770 sq in. and that plane is at least 27 years old.  Still flying no problems.

Windy was not known for building very light so the stress on a wing that large was probably very high. The one we built was relatively light and still flies very well. As Brett mentioned, longer lines would be nice.

Derek

[Brett Buck]

Windy was not known for building very light so the stress on a wing that large was probably very high. The one we built was relatively light and still flies very well. As Brett mentioned, longer lines would be nice.

Derek

   If you could have flown it on 85' lines, it would have been pretty competitive.


    Brett

[Mike Ferguson]

Windy was not known for building very light so the stress on a wing that large was probably very high. The one we built was relatively light and still flies very well. As Brett mentioned, longer lines would be nice.

Derek

The Mig Sweeper was actually pretty light for its size (which might've been part of the problem). It was actually somewhere in the low end of the 60-oz. weight range. I remember it would float practically forever when it would come down for landings.