Merger

[Chuck Feldman]

I wish that PAMPA would make a deal where they would collect reduced AMA dues say $10.00 and forgo MA. Now that to me would be PROGRESS.

Chuck

[Crist Rigotti]

To me that's wishful thinking!   

[john e. holliday]

And miss out on the info on the electric setups and also the finishing techniques for the foamies.  Need to get the granddads and dads to teach their young ones how to build CL and fly.

[RC Storick]

 Need to get the granddads and dads to teach their young ones how to build CL and fly.

That will happen only if it can be done instantly on the computer. Every anti BOM person should step back and think whats happening. In this instant gratification world the old world trades are being lost. Look at your furniture mostly particle board. Look around your house and see whats American made. NOTHING!

Model building has taught me most of the crafts I know. I am a eyeball engineer,painter,wood worker,fiberglass, machinist,etc.. Would I have leared all these skills had I bought ARFS? No! Let alone the social skills modeling teaches you. There are also valuable lessions to such as sharing and communicating ideas etc.. The things modling teaches can not be bought in CHINA. So everytime you anti BOM people think of doing away with the BOM think of it as just one more thing shipped to China.

I know that some are not world class builders and flyer's. Well that's just the way it is. The thing to do is not complain about it just start building and flying. This is a self improvement program and to improve you have to work at it the driving force behind CLPA is desire and take half of that away and you get half the results.

But the MAG makes a good epoxy mixing station

[Dave Holtsclaw]

I couldnt agree more

[Sean McEntee]

    ...its kind of funny, in Free Flight Land, allot of the top FF'ers in the country WANT the BOM rule in FF to go away, in order to increase participation in AMA events.  Go to any FAI contests that are flying AMA, FAC, or NFFS events, and the FAI events are MUCH better attended then the AMA events because, as in CL, the F1 events dont have BOM.   The only reason this isnt a bigger issue in stunt is because very few, if anyone, hosts an F2B event at their contests.

[Will Hinton]

I happen to like and enjoy MA.

[RC Storick]

  Go to any FAI contests that are flying AMA, FAC, or NFFS events, and the FAI events are MUCH better attended then the AMA events because, as in CL, the F1 events dont have BOM.   The only reason this isnt a bigger issue in stunt is because very few, if anyone, hosts an F2B event at their contests.

We have team trials F2B and the numbers are nowhere near that of the NATS. So at least in this country that's a incorrect statement. In other county's they don't have the BOM so there is nothing to compair it to. Speaking of the only event that concerns Control line Stunt,Sorry.

[Brett Buck]

We have team trials F2B and the numbers are nowhere near that of the NATS. So at least in this country that's a incorrect statement. In other county's they don't have the BOM so there is nothing to compair it to. Speaking of the only event that concerns Control line Stunt,Sorry.

   Well, in fairness, the Team Trials turnout is mostly smaller than the NATs because people who don't think they have a chance of making it tend to stay away - mostly for the good of the contest. The NATs is a little different story, lots of people come who know they have little chance.

    Brett

[Tim Wescott]

That will happen only if it can be done instantly on the computer. Every anti BOM person should step back and think whats happening. In this instant gratification world the old world trades are being lost. Look at your furniture mostly particle board. Look around your house and see whats American made. NOTHING!

If your house is full of China-made furniture it's because that's the choice that you made when you bought it.  Who held a gun to your head and said you had to save money buying Chinese furniture, instead of good old (expensive) American made?

[Steve Hines]

Increase perticipation is what is needed. BOM is dead just the people who push for it just dont know it. How many flyers at the Akron-Cleveland Stunt championship, do you think was under 50? There was Samantha 12 and I bet there were more over 60 than under. The young people are not in to building, dont know if I would have been if I could had got a ARF for 20 more than a kit. I build know for something to do. I know that I have to find safer products to use. I dont want Samantha to use what we allways used in the past. She painted a plane 4 weeks ago with dope, thats the end for that for her. After working in a paint factory 16 year and allways joking that I was trading a few drooling year for great pay, may not have been such a great trade. Now that I just found out that I have cancer for the 2nd time, would have done things a little different. Now I dont care if Samantha ever builds and paints a plane. If this keeps her from flying at the nats so be it.

Steve

[Trostle]

What is this BOM discussion doing on this "Merger" thread?

But I will still comment about the BOM.  Most surveys on this forum and surveys that go back to the 70's show about 80% still favor a BOM.

So what is the problem with the BOM requirement?  Many contests (seems most in the Eastern part of the country) do not even require the BOM rule.  Besides that, there is only one annual contest in the country where the BOM is mandatory and then there is one contest every odd year with a comparatively small entry where there is no BOM rule at all.  That means that a contestant can enter any contest in the country, except for one each year, with a non BOM airplane.  And even at that one venue each year, a non BOM can still be flown in one of several stunt events being held at the same time.  What is it that makes the BOM rule detrimental to our CLPA event?

[RC Storick]

Increase perticipation is what is needed. BOM is dead just the people who push for it just dont know it. How many flyers at the Akron-Cleveland Stunt championship, do you think was under 50? There was Samantha 12 and I bet there were more over 60 than under. The young people are not in to building, dont know if I would have been if I could had got a ARF for 20 more than a kit. I build know for something to do. I know that I have to find safer products to use. I dont want Samantha to use what we allways used in the past. She painted a plane 4 weeks ago with dope, thats the end for that for her. After working in a paint factory 16 year and allways joking that I was trading a few drooling year for great pay, may not have been such a great trade. Now that I just found out that I have cancer for the 2nd time, would have done things a little different. Now I dont care if Samantha ever builds and paints a plane. If this keeps her from flying at the nats so be it.

Steve

Water base paint.

[john e. holliday]

Or horror of horrors,  the iron on plastic coverings.   I have seen some, that from a few feet could not tell between plastic and paint.  I think it takes more practice to get the plastic covering right.

[Robert Jones]

I happen to like and enjoy MA.

It's nice to read a model aviation magazine that's not just dedicated to cheap, Chinese ARF's isn't it?

[MarcusCordeiro]

  Need to get the granddads and dads to teach their young ones how to build CL and fly.
[/quote]

That is true.
I have a lot of problems to get my kid to help me build. Sometimes I have to tell him to turn off the da#% computer.
Well, he's crashed his nobler and it needs new motor mounts. I told him, "No building, no flying".
Gee, building is what I have always enjoyed the most. What's wrong with kids nowadays?

Marcus

[Joseph Lijoi]

To me it's not a question of build and fly but fly and build.  Now you can fly and not build.

Sure 80% of people polled support the BOM......and 79% of those guys are retired. 

[Dennis Toth]

Guys,
One option that AMA could consider for MA is an e-version similar to what PAMPA does for SN. This would reduce cost and still give an information media to cover all aspects of the hobby. How do we get this to AMA?

As for BOM, I know people like to hang on to tradition and building is part of how many of us grew up in this hobby. However, today time constrains limit what people can do. Kids are expected and pushed to learn faster more advance subjects that most of us did see until college. Parents that do there job spend time with their kids and guide them through the learning process (not doing it for them but teaching how to think it through to get it done) and have less time for hobbies. Even retirees have limits because some have to work to cover expenses which leaves them less time and energy.

All in all I feel that people who like to build will always build (I still build), top competitors will always design and build there own because they believe they can get just that little edge (even the $1000 ARF's were beat at the worlds by flier built ships, you still have to fly it). This is a hobby that has many facets. First, we need to get people involved, then let them see how to progress to higher levels. Making things to restrictive to entry doesn't help our cause.

Best,    DennisT

[Bill Little]

I managed to build model airplanes through Jr. High, High School, and college.  This all while being in the Academically Gifted Program, playing at least three sports a year (All State in three sports, HS All American in one) until college (only two sports in college, All Conf.), and getting married (had a part time job) before I graduated from college.

I kept building for most of my adult life (while staying married and raising two sons) and while having a job that could be 18-20 hours a day sometimes.  I did find time to build.  Flying was another problem since it's hard to fly in NC at 3 AM! LOL!!.

There is always time to build, no one had it any "busier" than I did.

Bill

[Dave_Trible]

Since there aren't 300 million c/l fliers in the country it's obvious not everyone took up the hobby at ANY time.  Out of a class of 714 kids myself and one other flew model airplanes.   Yes, now it is very hard to get kids interested.  I think there are so many more things to do now that don't require much effort.  Also I think the largest problem for us is there aren't local hobby shops anymore-the hub of our activity in the past where people couldn't help but be exposed to the hobby and could readily get supplies and help.  At least for our area it was the profit incentive of R/C that drove the C/Liners out.  They still do OK here with that and people buy it. Given all that few would ever take more interest if the BOM were gone.  It is a FULL HALF of our sport.  Most places you can use your ARFs anyway.  Our great traditions shouldn't be changed nor do they have to be.  Just create and pursue your own events and stop trying to ruin what we have.  Maybe your kid will show you his video game.....As far as time goes, generally most work fewer hours and with modern appliances and farming out home and auto repairs this generation has more time on their hands than ever-more money too so I can't accept that reasoning.  We just got lazy..let's admit it.  We'll only get a few so let's just do that.  Really want to help?  Start up a good hobby shop.

Dave

[Doug Moon]

Guys,
One option that AMA could consider for MA is an e-version similar to what PAMPA does for SN. This would reduce cost and still give an information media to cover all aspects of the hobby. How do we get this to AMA?

Best,    DennisT

They have an on-line version.  It is actually extensions and videos from articles in MA. 

I like MA.

[peabody]

I like MA too....there is something in almost every issue that is new and valuable to me....