Author Topic: McCoy 35 Red Head ABC piston/liner/rod/pin sets??????? (Read 8097 times)

Brian Gardner · « **on:** February 12, 2014, 07:58:48 PM »

Ok fellas, I've had a couple of enquiries about making ABC piston/liner/rod/pin sets for the old McCoy 35 Red Heads.

I have someone who has generously offered the loan of a good engine to get dimensions from.

To justify doing a run of them I need solid numbers of preferably 20 units.

Those that have seen the OS Max-S 35, ST46 and ST60 sets will be aware of the quality, price and also the time duration it takes me to get stuff done.

So please guys, if you are definitely interested let me know and we'll see if we have enough solid numbers to get this off the ground. Like usual this is just something to occupy me and a favour to the stunt community.

I'm on a disability pension these days, so I need to stress I need firm numbers, not hollow wants as I have to fund this myself until they all sell.

Moderators feel free to move this post if I have placed it in the wrong area.

Brian

Andrew Tinsley · « **Reply #1 on:** February 13, 2014, 04:25:57 AM »

Hi Brian,
Sign me up for two sets. Great engines but dreadful pistons, ABC should sort that out! I have also just picked up a near new OS Max 35 S Do you have any piston /liners left? If no put me down for one if you ever make anymore.

Regards,

Andrew.

James_Mynes · « **Reply #2 on:** February 13, 2014, 05:24:48 AM »

I'm interested in two sets, but I'd like to hear more about the quality, price, and performance. As you say, "Those that have seen the OS Max-S 35, ST46 and ST60 sets will be aware of the quality, price and also the time duration it takes me to get stuff done." I am not one of those people, nor do I know who they might be. Can we get some testimonials?

Randy Ryan · « **Reply #3 on:** February 13, 2014, 05:56:49 AM »

I'm interested in cost before I commit, at least a fair estimate.

Bill Little · « **Reply #4 on:** February 13, 2014, 09:32:26 AM »

Hi Randy,

I suspect the sets will cost around $90-$100 US compared to the others. I guess they will have to machine the entire cylinder jug?

Hi Brian,

I would definitely take one, but would get a couple if they were for the .40!

BIG Bear

Bob Kruger · « **Reply #5 on:** February 13, 2014, 12:59:07 PM »

Quote from: Brian Gardner on February 12, 2014, 07:58:48 PM

Ok fellas, I've had a couple of enquiries about making ABC piston/liner/rod/pin sets for the old McCoy 35 Red Heads.

I have someone who has generously offered the loan of a good engine to get dimensions from.

To justify doing a run of them I need solid numbers of preferably 20 units.

Those that have seen the OS Max-S 35, ST46 and ST60 sets will be aware of the quality, price and also the time duration it takes me to get stuff done.

So please guys, if you are definitely interested let me know and we'll see if we have enough solid numbers to get this off the ground. Like usual this is just something to occupy me and a favour to the stunt community.

I'm on a disability pension these days, so I need to stress I need firm numbers, not hollow wants as I have to fund this myself until they all sell.

Moderators feel free to move this post if I have placed it in the wrong area.

Brian

Just curious, but since the McCoy Redhead doesn't have a sleeve, how are you going to do this?

Bob

James_Mynes · « **Reply #6 on:** February 13, 2014, 01:14:09 PM »

Quote from: Bob Kruger on February 13, 2014, 12:59:07 PM

Just curious, but since the McCoy Redhead doesn't have a sleeve, how are you going to do this?

Bob

Good point. Maybe that's why they've not been done before.

wmiii · « **Reply #7 on:** February 13, 2014, 01:20:22 PM »

I would definitly buy a couple if they were for the .40

Walter

Joseph Patterson · « **Reply #8 on:** February 13, 2014, 01:34:38 PM »

Brian, I'll get (2) sets from you if you decide to do'em.
Thanks,
Doug

RandySmith · « **Reply #9 on:** February 13, 2014, 03:50:49 PM »

Quote from: Bob Kruger on February 13, 2014, 12:59:07 PM

Just curious, but since the McCoy Redhead doesn't have a sleeve, how are you going to do this?

Bob

It does have a sleeve... someone just forgot and left a lot of material about the top half of the sleeve...

Randy

Brian Gardner · « **Reply #10 on:** February 13, 2014, 05:22:04 PM »

The fins will have to be integral with the liner, obviously brass. I haven't seen the internals yet to be 100% sure of how we'll do it, but I wanted to see if there would be enough people interested before bothering to get into it.

The 35, 46 & 60 sets have been around the $80 to $100US mark which has included rods & pins too.

Brian

Randy Ryan · « **Reply #11 on:** February 13, 2014, 05:34:41 PM »

OK I'll commit to one but I think there may be some cooling problems, IN order to get enough wall to hold combustion pressure there my nor be enough fin left.

Dan McEntee · « **Reply #12 on:** February 13, 2014, 05:41:31 PM »

Seems it may be worth the effort to just do them in a .40 size. More bang for the buck. Tom Lay and George Aldrich both did McCoy .35 conversions to .40, did they not? i would be more interested in a .40 size, especially if they were that complete and drop in assembly. Maybe two sets.
Type at you later,
Dan McEntee

Brian Hampton · « **Reply #13 on:** February 13, 2014, 05:58:49 PM »

Quote from: Randy Ryan on February 13, 2014, 05:34:41 PM

...In order to get enough wall to hold combustion pressure there may not be enough fin left.

That shouldn't be a problem. The Norvels use a similar one piece aluminium arrangement and the integral fins would add a huge amount of rigidity.

Bill Little · « **Reply #14 on:** February 13, 2014, 08:18:24 PM »

Quote from: Dan McEntee on February 13, 2014, 05:41:31 PM

Seems it may be worth the effort to just do them in a .40 size. More bang for the buck. Tom Lay and George Aldrich both did McCoy .35 conversions to .40, did they not? i would be more interested in a .40 size, especially if they were that complete and drop in assembly. Maybe two sets.
Type at you later,
Dan McEntee

Hi Dan,

I do not believe the Red Head .40 size jug will fit into the Red Head .35 case with out machining.

I have converted almost all my McCoys to Dykes ring using Series 21 parts, especially my .40s. The .29 and .35 Series 21 jugs drop right in the Red Head cases, but the .40 doesn't. On the .40 I just swap the piston and ring into the Red Head jug. I guess the "liner" is thicker on the Series 21 .40 compared to the Red Head.

Also, you cannot swap anything (hardly) from the Series 21 .19 into the Red Head .19. To bad since I can fly my Fierce Arrow 400 in Classic, but the soft piston on the .19 Red Head scares me from taking it to a contest and depending on it.

BIG Bear

Brian Gardner · « **Reply #15 on:** February 13, 2014, 08:21:14 PM »

If we were to do it we'd probably give it a bit more wall thickness to be sure, but there will be plenty of fin area still.

Randy Ryan · « **Reply #16 on:** February 14, 2014, 08:23:49 AM »

Quote from: Brian Hampton on February 13, 2014, 05:58:49 PM

That shouldn't be a problem. The Norvels use a similar one piece aluminium arrangement and the integral fins would add a huge amount of rigidity.

Yes, you're probably right, the fins do have hoop strength as well.

Bill Little · « **Reply #17 on:** February 14, 2014, 01:11:51 PM »

Quote from: Rusty Pieper on February 14, 2014, 04:20:37 AM

Why not just chrome used cylinders. You can hone the chrome to the tolerance you need to match the piston.

Hi Rusty,

The problem with that, as I see it, is that there is only one guy left still chroming model engines which can mean a long delay at best. I would like to know of others!

BIG Bear

Andrew Tinsley · « **Reply #18 on:** February 15, 2014, 04:15:33 AM »

By far the worst part of the Red Head 35 and 40s are the awful sintered pistons. An absolute waste of time chroming the bores unless you make a new pistons. Then with the dimensions and tolerances all over the place you would need to either fit the piston size to differing bores or chrome the bores and then hone them back to a standard size. At the end of all that you have an old fashioned iron piston and steel bore!
Give me an ABC set up any day. The only down side is that a crash will deform the brass a lot easier than steel.

Regards,

Andrew.

George Hostler · « **Reply #19 on:** February 16, 2014, 06:51:56 AM »

Wouldn't chroming the sintered piston resolve its weakness and provide a better engine, provided it was practical to do?

Scott Hartford · « **Reply #20 on:** February 16, 2014, 07:38:44 AM »

I'll take 2.

Bill Little · « **Reply #21 on:** February 16, 2014, 10:27:14 AM »

Quote from: George Hostler on February 16, 2014, 06:51:56 AM

Wouldn't chroming the sintered piston resolve its weakness and provide a better engine, provided it was practical to do?

Hi George,

One gentleman used to chrome the pistons but he has passed.......... seemed to be the ticket.
I don't know of anyone doing that now.

BIG Bear

C.T. Schaefer · « **Reply #22 on:** February 21, 2014, 07:55:10 PM »

Has anyone ever asked about making a set for the Fox .36X series of motors? I would like 3 please.

Brian Gardner · « **Reply #23 on:** February 22, 2014, 05:09:20 AM »

You're the first to ask mate. If you can get enough numbers together to do a run of 20 units it's a possibility.

Quote from: C.T. Schaefer on February 21, 2014, 07:55:10 PM

Has anyone ever asked about making a set for the Fox .36X series of motors? I would like 3 please.

Tom Luciano · « **Reply #24 on:** February 22, 2014, 05:53:29 AM »

I'll take 4! (36x)

Thanks
Tom

Bill Little · « **Reply #25 on:** February 22, 2014, 01:44:15 PM »

Quote from: Andrew Tinsley on February 15, 2014, 04:15:33 AM

By far the worst part of the Red Head 35 and 40s are the awful sintered pistons. An absolute waste of time chroming the bores unless you make a new pistons. Then with the dimensions and tolerances all over the place you would need to either fit the piston size to differing bores or chrome the bores and then hone them back to a standard size. At the end of all that you have an old fashioned iron piston and steel bore!
Give me an ABC set up any day. The only down side is that a crash will deform the brass a lot easier than steel.

Regards,

Andrew.

Hi Andrew,

I have to think that a crash of such magnitude that it deformed the brass cylinder jug, other parts of the engine will be destroyed............... Probably the crankcase

BIG Bear

Al Ferraro · « **Reply #26 on:** February 23, 2014, 07:35:07 AM »

1966 Fox 36X. I would take (5) sets.
Also put me down for (1) McCoy 35 Red Head.
Al

Allan Perret · « **Reply #27 on:** February 25, 2014, 01:46:52 PM »

McCoy35 RH, put me down for one.

Andrew Tinsley · « **Reply #28 on:** February 25, 2014, 03:16:11 PM »

Hi Bill.
Believe it or not when I crash a Red head 35, I usually manage to bend the fins. hence my comment! if I can bend the steel fins then heaven help me if they are brass! Seriously I have managed to do this on two of my McCoy 35s and I didn't even scratch the red paint on the head!

Regards,

Andrew.

Brian Gardner · « **Reply #29 on:** March 03, 2014, 10:28:25 PM »

OK guys we have sufficient numbers to go ahead with this and a sample engine is on it's way to me thanks to a true gentleman Graham Vibert..

Bear in mind it will take a while to get them done, but everyone that has requested to be put on the list will be contacted when they are ready.

Bill Little · « **Reply #30 on:** March 04, 2014, 08:45:01 AM »

Hi Brian,

I want to thank you for taking the initiative for helping to keep some of these old engines running and powering our models!

Thank you,
Bill

Kozmo77 · « **Reply #31 on:** March 04, 2014, 10:35:57 AM »

Admiral Bill Little-good day Sir. Would you favor me with some info onthe McCoy RH issue? I have 3 RHs and 2 21 BHs. I got the oldest RH in 1959 and it still performs( I think)- has good compression and ran fine in 1967 on my Combat Cat. A second 35Rh was an Ebay score(looked almost new) But has very little compression. The 3rd RH35 was another Ebay find and worth the money(45 bucks)- runs like a spotted tail ape as we used to say. The BHs are 35s and one is my 1965 buy -has about 2hrs on the clock. Question- when you transfer the series21 piston, do you change the piston and rod as a unit into the RH case or will the rod from the RH have to be used after drilling the 21s piston for the larger conrod's wristpin? ALSO, do you swap the assembly into a later Lightning Bolt case or liner? My concern is the Dykes ring and the open exhaust port on the earlier RHs. I know I could dissasemble the motors and measure components, but didn't want to have to do that and make new gaskets. BTW, I have tried the method of "upsetting" the old iron piston with a number of taps on the domed head of the piston while nestles in the liner.
Couldn't get a satisfactory fit. I realize I sound bewildered. I am getting reaquainted with all the "new" developments in C/L. It's a tremendous experience. Thanks to all for the most entertaining moments of my day.

Kozmo77 · « **Reply #32 on:** March 04, 2014, 10:43:41 AM »

Addendum- Please forgive me for what appears to be an interruption to the thread from Mr. Gardner. I hope that enough pilots make the production run a reality. And I hope it is a profitable venture for him. I'm primarily a tinkerer and hope soon to fly some of the 9 planes I (almost) have ready. And again thanks for a really great time.

Bill Little · « **Reply #33 on:** March 04, 2014, 10:58:49 AM »

As little as one lean run with out sufficient oil could kill a Red Head. The piston was just too soft.

On the "Hybrids" I use the piston and rod from the Series 21 in the .35 and .40. On the .29 you can also use the "jug" from the Series 21. It is important that the "jug" (sleeve/liner) on the Red Head has the fences in the ports. Most do have them. My best running .29 has the Series 21 parts just swapped in. Everything is just "drop in" for the .29!

The Series 21 .19 had enough redesign that nothing fits with out machining.

The Red Heads in stock condition really need at least 25% oil with mostly castor. How they are treated, and how careful you are when running them and using correct oil, will sometimes give an engine that lasts for quite a while. Poor Quality Control hurt the McCoys for a while. To the point that the fits were so poor, some would hardly run when brand new.

In the past, getting the piston chromed cure the longevity problem, but I do not know of anyone doing that anymore. Also, the late Tom Lay would have the pistons heat treated which really helped.

They were great stunt designed engines with unfortunately too short a life span all too often.

BIG Bear
RNMM/AMM

Steve Hines · « **Reply #34 on:** March 04, 2014, 11:14:00 AM »

I will take one and a 36 if you make them.

Steve

Allen Eshleman · « **Reply #35 on:** March 04, 2014, 02:39:37 PM »

Would this make a weak McCoy 35 into a power house?

Joseph Patterson · « **Reply #36 on:** March 04, 2014, 08:07:11 PM »

Thank You Brian, I'll be ready when you get'em ready!
Doug

Bill Little · « **Reply #37 on:** March 05, 2014, 06:54:22 AM »

Quote from: Allen Eshleman on March 04, 2014, 02:39:37 PM

Would this make a weak McCoy 35 into a power house?

Hi Allen,

As long as the crankshaft fit is good, it will make the McCoy .35 run like it should. They were designed as stunt engines, not "hi performance". For a "powerhouse" vintage engine, go for one of the combat types.

BIG Bear
RNMM/AMM

Paul Smith · « **Reply #38 on:** March 05, 2014, 07:32:04 AM »

Quote from: Allen Eshleman on March 04, 2014, 02:39:37 PM

Would this make a weak McCoy 35 into a power house?

The problem with all blackfin engines (McCoy, K&B, OS Max III, etc) is that the top & bottom of the engine is held together by only 2 or 3 long bolts. When somebody succeeds in making one of these "a power house" it often launches the top end or at least blows a gasket.

If this thing works accept the added reliablity and restarting ability and refrain from going for more power.

Douglas Ames · « **Reply #39 on:** March 05, 2014, 10:14:50 PM »

What about the crankshaft counterweight? Won't the piston / rod assy be lighter?
The piston might have to be a little chunky to get it to balance with a stock crank.

Allen Eshleman · « **Reply #40 on:** March 06, 2014, 05:21:57 AM »

When I said "power house", I meant being restored to being one of the really good McCoys. I had one of them. Great power for pulling ringmasters, etc. with a great break. Loved it. I have heard that a good McCoy, and I realize that only some were good because of quality control, had more power than a Fox 35. When I was a 14 year old, I had a good one for power but it was hard to start.

Scott Richlen · « **Reply #41 on:** March 06, 2014, 07:32:23 AM »

Brian:

Please keep us updated on the manufacturing process. It should prove interesting; also, some of us who have a passing interest may be encouraged and decide to get a set, too.

Scott

Al Ferraro · « **Reply #42 on:** March 07, 2014, 09:36:08 PM »

(Can we get some testimonials?)
I just received the ST 46 Head, ABC piston & liner set from Brian Gardner this week. All the parts look and fit very nice, just like a new high quality engine. He shipped it from Australia to NJ in just 2 weeks. I cant wait to install the parts and run the engine

Al

Al Ferraro · « **Reply #43 on:** March 07, 2014, 09:38:33 PM »

Brian Gardner · « **Reply #44 on:** March 07, 2014, 09:47:52 PM »

Guys,

Regretfully I have to pull the pin on the McCoy 35. Upon receiving sample engines to measure up I've found the bottom end of the cylinder that inserts into the case is just too thin to copy in brass. I had planned to beef up the finned area to give more wall thickness, but I can't do this for the lower section unless I reduce the bore size....and we don't want that.. or the cases would have to be bored out which kills the idea of a refurb "kit"

Sorry to get your hopes up fellas. It's quite a shame I couldn't make this one work.

Now, the Fox 36X. If you guys are serious about this I need a sample engine in reasonably good condition.

Brian

Tom Luciano · « **Reply #45 on:** March 08, 2014, 07:37:26 AM »

Brian,
I am very serious about the 36x. My feeling is, you would have tremendous interest if you made them.

thanks,
Tom

Andrew Hathaway · « **Reply #46 on:** March 09, 2014, 05:31:16 PM »

Can we start a new thread for the Fox 36X sets? I can't imagine most that would be interested would find the topic in a McCoy thread.

Author Topic: McCoy 35 Red Head ABC piston/liner/rod/pin sets??????? (Read 8097 times)

James_Mynes

James_Mynes

George Hostler