Maybe it was me - I got my Tutor II Back !!!

[Paul Taylor]

I took my Tutor II out for just a few flights because I have been focused on my Vector the past few flying sessions. Anyway long story short... I was doing the pattern and had no problems until I got to the Horizonal Eights. I got the inside loop and went over to do the outside. The plane seems like it did not want to turn. For some reason I pulled a tight inside and came close to the ground. I will call it a bad panic move.
So I thought I needed more down throw. When I got home I check the controls. The up seems smooth and it did not have a real hard stop. When I pulled the down it had a hard stop and did not seem to be as much. So I put the ruler to it. To my surprise I had 25 degrees of up and 33 degrees of down! More down then up. It turns nice insides but I really seem to fight the outsides. So OK, I need to adjust my line spacing so I have faster down. Again when I looked at the handle the down is all the way out!!!
Maybe I just had a bad day and was not in tune with this plane as I have been flying the Vector and it goes where I think about going. The Tutor seems like maybe I am flying a dump truck.

Or maybe it is just me.

As always a really appreciate your input.

[Bill Little]

Hi Paul,

If you can, add a few degrees of down to neutral flaps.  Just shorten the elevator pushrod.  Then set neutral handle again through flying.  This will help the outside turn rate.

BIG Bear
RNMM/AMM

[Paul Taylor]

Big Bear,
Just to make sure I understand.

I adjust my push rod to the elevator and then reset neutral at the handle?

Or fly it with a little down in the elevator?

[Derek Barry]

First,
Get a new handle. The down is maxed out but that is because you cant go past the bolt. You need to find a Kaz or Fancher style handle. I do not like the cable handles you show in your picture.

Second,
You can add some down to the elevators but that is a last step action, especially if the plane flies strait now.

Third,
It may be as simple as a handle adjustment. It is amazing what we can get use to, you may have to adjust your handle and fly 5 or 6 flights to recalibrate yourself.

Start here and report back.

Derek

[Paul Taylor]

Thanks Derek for the input. I have a Kaz type handle and will try it. It will mean I have to make up a another set of lines because of the way the lead outs are off set at neutral. Always wanted to try a hard point handle.

[Zuriel Armstrong]

Howdy Paul,

Make sure the horns are not flexing or twisting and that they are positively secured.

Zuriel

[Derek Barry]

Thanks Derek for the input. I have a Kaz type handle and will try it. It will mean I have to make up a another set of lines because of the way the lead outs are off set at neutral. Always wanted to try a hard point handle.

Kaz makes a cable handle and a hard point. I guess you have the hard point...

Either one is better than the Cable/bar handle that you are using.

Derek

[Russell Shaffer]

Is there any chance you have some upthrust in the engine? 

[Paul Taylor]

Is there any chance you have some upthrust in the engine? 

Would that make the plane hunt in level flight? If so that is not the case.

The plane seems to track well in level flight.

[john e. holliday]

Is this the first flight on the Tutor??   If not what did you do different from the other flights.   I know in my little experience, I have picked up the wrong handle for the plane.   Makes for very uncomfortable flights.   Did that at Tuscon for Old Time on first official.  No practice that day.   But, second round with correct handle and feeling like it should, I got a lower score.

[Mark Scarborough]

It could also be in part to the way the Vector is trimmed, you say you have been flying the vector almost exclusivly,, if you have trained yourself to fly as the vector is trimmed part of the issue could be in your muscle memory as well..

[Paul Taylor]

It could also be in part to the way the Vector is trimmed, you say you have been flying the vector almost exclusivly,, if you have trained yourself to fly as the vector is trimmed part of the issue could be in your muscle memory as well..

Could be Mark. I might have been pulling my arm up over my head in the past to get the Tutor to turn outsides. I hate to give up on this Tutor but it may be time to find a better flying plane for the Profile event. I may make a handle change and see how that goes.

Stay tuned...

[Garf]

You won't find a much better flying profile than a well trimmed Tutor 2. Go all the way thru the control system and make sure everything is right and try it again.

[Paul Taylor]

BINGO!!!!
OK, I went looking for handles and I found the handle that I flew the Tutor with last year.  DUH !!! I remembered that I just started using the handle pictured above this season. I checked the line spacing with my old handle and I do have more throw with the old handle.

Guess what handle I'm going to use next time out?

Problem may be solved.
Again Stay Tuned!!!! 

Yea Garf, I would kind of hate to turn my Tutor into a hanger queen.

[Paul Taylor]

Just got back from a quick trip to the field to see if my handle was the problem.

On the first outside I knew it was fixed.

If it an'it broke don't fix it !!!!

I am not changing a thing with this setup.

Thanks Derek for making me look for another handle. (My old one)

[Dan McEntee]

  Never got the chance to answer the first thread, but will add here. Make sure you don't have something slipping in one of the pushrods or control horns. You mentioned that the up and down throws were not even at max throw, and if they were when you built it, then something has changed. It may justhave been you, like you think. I have had days like that also, like it was someone esles model or something. But be sure you don'thave something slipping or loose in your controls, or your handle cable.
  Type at you later,
    Dan

[Dan McEntee]

   This is why I have a dedicated set of lines and handle for each model, and it's marked and goes back into a plastic bag that is marked when I'm finished flying. The bag helps to keep them clean and keeps them from tangling in the flight box.
   Type at you later,
   Dan McEntee

[Paul Taylor]

Yea, I got a set of lines for each plane. I just thought if I use the same TYPE of handle on ever plane that it will make things better.

WRONG!

Back to my old handle.

[Tim Wescott]

   This is why I have a dedicated set of lines and handle for each model, and it's marked and goes back into a plastic bag that is marked when I'm finished flying. The bag helps to keep them clean and keeps them from tangling in the flight box.

I keep handle and lines for each plane in a cheapo Rubbermaid sandwich box (labeled of course).

It means building a new handle each time I increase the net plane inventory by 1 -- but that's a cause for celebration, right?

[Chris McMillin]

   This is why I have a dedicated set of lines and handle for each model, and it's marked and goes back into a plastic bag that is marked when I'm finished flying. The bag helps to keep them clean and keeps them from tangling in the flight box.
   Type at you later,
   Dan McEntee

That's pretty organized, bro.
Chris...

[Dan McEntee]

That's pretty organized, bro.
Chris...

    Yeah, but you know me better than that! At least I know that they are all in the same place! With as much stuff as I got , that's saying a lot!
   Type at you later,
     Dan McEntee

[Steve Helmick]

The thing to remember is that the lines and handle are part of the trimming process, so don't be switching stuff around willy-nilly. Since the Vector seems like an improvement to Paul, then going back to an older plane might show some faults that would suggest trim isn't as good as it might be. Paul should probably get back to trimming the Tooter2. Don't pass up the opportunity to improve every plane in your stable and gain the trimming experience. It'll help with your future planes. 

[Mark Scarborough]

The thing to remember is that the lines and handle are part of the trimming process, so don't be switching stuff around willy-nilly. Since the Vector seems like an improvement to Paul, then going back to an older plane might show some faults that would suggest trim isn't as good as it might be. Paul should probably get back to trimming the Tooter2. Don't pass up the opportunity to improve every plane in your stable and gain the trimming experience. It'll help with your future planes. 

kinda the same thing I was implying,,

[Doug Moon]

Hello Paul,

I like bar handles myself.  I have used both hard point and bar and have had good results with both.  The trouble with the handle in the pic is the bar is really small in length.  You won’t get much spacing.  But to each his own on handles. One thing you can do to help your response is to pull the bar in towards your knuckles as far as you can.  Your overhang setting is really making it hard to get a good quick response.  

But I think your issue is elsewhere. Your measurement showing a great deal of difference in the total throw in each direction is the probably your trouble spot.  I have found that getting the throws equal at the flap is what is needed to get a good even control response in each direction.  I have a protractor with a notch in it so I can slide up to the rear of the wing and set the 0 for neutral flap.  Then move the flap up and down adjusting the pushrod until the throws are equal in both directions.  You really can’t measure off of the elevators because when you are really in good trim they may not be totally level when the flap is level.  Getting the flaps equal in each direction will help center the bell crank at neutral.  If you have it off set your responses will be different in each direction.  I would check here first and go from there.  Being a profile you should be able to adjust the length of the flap pushrod and get it all evened out.

I hope this helps.  

[Paul Taylor]

Thanks Doug,
You make a valid point. When I get time I will try and correct the throw. I do not feel like I am hitting the end limit when flying the plane. But you are correct. I should try and get them the same.

I have changed back to my old handle and it is flying like it had before I had the brain fart of trying a new handle. It is like a Hot Rock type handle only smaller and made of wood.

Thanks guys for all this info. It was very helpful. I hope someone else learns from my mistakes.

And again, I wish I knew everything that you guys forgot about Control Line planes. I would be one smart dude.

[Doug Moon]

Paul,

You most likely will never hit the end of the control throws in most flying conditions. If you do hit the ends there is a good chance the ground will be coming into play as well,,,,and we dont want that. But having even throws will help give you the same ratio as you go from inside to outside and make the model more predictable.

[Paul Taylor]

Understand Doug,
I will fix it first chance I get.