Loss of the Dreadnought

[Steve Fitton]

this morning on its 352nd flight the same fatal flaw that shot down my first dreadnought killed the second one.  Control system failure coming out of the top turn of the triangle.    Maybe I can finish the new one in time for the Nats....

[Phil Spillman]

Gosh Darn it Steve, that's a darned shame. Why did it break again? I'd say you've uncovered a severe weak spot which everyone else should know about!

Sadly,

Phil

[Russell Shaffer]

Definitely a strange problem there.  Those airplanes were way too nice to lose to mechanical issues.     

[Mike Griffin]

Steve where was the failure?  Push Rod, Bellcrank, control horn?   Sorry to see this
That is a beautiful model

Mike

[Doug Moon]

Looks like we could have two new Nats judges this year in Steve and Chris??   

Possible??

[Steve Fitton]

Somehow I am going to blame George Bush for this, but I have not quite worked out the details yet....

failure mode is not the same as the first airplane.  In this case the keeper washers fell off both ends of the elevator pushrod, and once the failsafe retainer wore away it came unhooked at the flap horn.  The contributing factor was a piece of music wire that for some reason would not take solder despite exhaustive cleanings, not even acid flux would make solder reliably stick.  In hindsight I should have pitched the pushrod and made up a new one.  The new plane uses ball links instead of soldered wire....

[Gene Martine]

 
Sorry for your loss Steve, it was a great flying plane.
Gene

[Steve Fitton]

With luck the Dreadnought might take to the skies again, but at this point it needs more paintwork than the plane already on the paint stand.  Plus I have to figure out how to fix the controls.  The biggest issue I see is a motor mount pulled loose from the fuselage side.  Pretty sure I can inject epoxy in there to fix that.

[Dave_Trible]

Crap you guys,  sorry!  Maybe you still have enough time to get it together.  Guess I'll have a good look at my stuff just in case.  I use wheel collars with JB to retain the pushrods because I've seen the soldered washer fail before on my own. 

Good luck.  See you there.
Dave

[Eric Viglione]

 

[Randy Cuberly]

Sorry about the loss of a beautiful airplane Steve.

Picture below shows the setup I've used for many years on the elevator horn.  No problems in hundreds of flights.  No solder or washers.

Tom Morris adjustable horn, and Clevis from Ultra Hobbby Products.

Randy Cuberly

[David Hoover]

Tom Morris adjustable horn, and Clevis from Ultra Hobbby Products.

The only problem is, Ultra Hobby no longer supplies the clevises.  I contacted them a month or so ago and was told that they're no longer in production.  I was after a couple of them for my Strega.

[Paul Walker]

Dang you guys.  I'm going to have to stop reading all this stuff, as I don't want this bad karma.

Sorry to read about both yours and Chris' losing your Nats's planes. This stuff happens if you do it long enough.

I trust you both will use it as a valuable learning experience.

Hope you both make it to the Nat's.

[Randy Cuberly]

The only problem is, Ultra Hobby no longer supplies the clevises.  I contacted them a month or so ago and was told that they're no longer in production.  I was after a couple of them for my Strega.

They were actually made by a guy in Florida...I think I have his name around here somewhere.  If I can find it I'll put it here in the forum.
I have several of them in a drawer but will really cherish them if they really are not obtainable anymore.

Actually they wouldn't be that hard to make for a descent machinist.  Maybe Jim Lee would be interested in making some.  I'll contact him if I can't find the guy who made them before.  It's just a little machined aluminum clevis with a couple of tapped holes and a hardened pin held in by a small button head screw.

Randy Cuberly

[Shug Emery]

Sorry to see the demise Steve. I saw you fly that plane well in Carolina.
Shug

[SteveMoon]

Dang, Steve, this sucks! Carbon fiber pushrods, threaded inserts and ball links from now on.
Time to judge!!!!

See you in Muncie, Steve

[Chris_Rud]

Looks like we could have two new Nats judges this year in Steve and Chris??   

Possible??

Not that I have anything against judging... but I have 362 flights this season and if I have to show up with a ringmaster I will. Here is a pic of the pumpkin with the base color coat on it. I should be flying by the start of next week. If that is the case I should still end of with around 425 flights before top 20 day. I'm on a mission

-Chris

[peabody]

Orange would be a TERRIFIC trim color Chris

[Chris_Rud]

Orange would be a TERRIFIC trim color Chris

I like to fly up until dark and the previous camo airplane was hard to see so I picked the brightest color possible... just kidding... I know it looks like a pumpkin now but I think my idea in the end will look cool. If it doesn't o well at least I have a plane.

-Chris

[Will Hinton]

Go for it, Chris!  Hey, maybe a Cleveland Browns paint scheme?  (Let's see how many nasty comments THAT brings along!)
You can do it, my friend, and do it right.  I'm pullin' for ya.

[SteveMoon]

Actually, the Ultra Hobby clevis was not made in FL as Randy C. claims. They
were made right here in Dallas by a local machinist who used to be a pilot
for Braniff. If somebody in FL was producing an exact duplicate of them,
then he was ripping us off, as nobody ever contacted me about producing them.

Steve

[Paul Walker]

Not that I have anything against judging... but I have 362 flights this season and if I have to show up with a ringmaster I will. Here is a pic of the pumpkin with the base color coat on it. I should be flying by the start of next week. If that is the case I should still end of with around 425 flights before top 20 day. I'm on a mission

-Chris

I like this guy! 425 flights before top 20 day on a plane not yet complete. Keep this up and you will get there before you know it. Me, I thought I was optimistic about getting 300 more in before the Nat's. Reminds me of days past!

Where is "there"?   The winners position of course!

Good luck.

[Randy Cuberly]

Actually, the Ultra Hobby clevis was not made in FL as Randy C. claims. They
were made right here in Dallas by a local machinist who used to be a pilot
for Braniff. If somebody in FL was producing an exact duplicate of them,
then he was ripping us off, as nobody ever contacted me about producing them.

Steve

Hi Steve, sorry if the info about the clevis was false.  That info came from someone here in Tucson who shall remain nameless.   I was told that they were made by a fellow in Florida and you guys got them from him.  I just stupidly believed him....live and learn.  I've bought all mine from you guys.

Which begs the question...are you going to find someone else to make them?  It's a terriffic product.  I still have several but would like to keep more on hand.

Again, Sorry for the phoney info!

Randy Cuberly

[Doug Moon]

Not that I have anything against judging... but I have 362 flights this season and if I have to show up with a ringmaster I will. Here is a pic of the pumpkin with the base color coat on it. I should be flying by the start of next week. If that is the case I should still end of with around 425 flights before top 20 day. I'm on a mission

-Chris

Do you mean 425 on this plane?  Or added to the 362 you already have?

I have 13 patterns on my plane this year. 

I got 3 patterns on Bobs plane this past weekend for a whopping total of 16 patterns!   

[Doug Moon]

I like this guy! 425 flights before top 20 day on a plane not yet complete. Keep this up and you will get there before you know it. Me, I thought I was optimistic about getting 300 more in before the Nat's. Reminds me of days past!

Where is "there"?   The winners position of course!

Good luck.

14 flights a day for 21 days in a row, including your drive days.  Man you are get a lot of flights in!!!

[Chris_Rud]

14 flights a day for 21 days in a row, including your drive days.  Man you are get a lot of flights in!!!

I definitely meant to say I have 362 right now and my goal is to have 425 by the NATs so I need 63 before then. That shouldn't be an issue if I'm done with the new plane by the end of the week. I'm staying with Billy next weekend to trim it and get some coaching. Last time I went to Billy's we got 60 flights. Sorry for the confusion.

[Paul Walker]

I definitely meant to say I have 362 right now and my goal is to have 425 by the NATs so I need 63 before then. That shouldn't be an issue if I'm done with the new plane by the end of the week. I'm staying with Billy next weekend to trim it and get some coaching. Last time I went to Billy's we got 60 flights. Sorry for the confusion.

Wow, you sure missed your chance....I now have to demote you to a mere mortal now....63 more should be a piece of cake.

Ah, the good old days, when I used to average almost 20 flights a day for the month before a Nat's. Those days are gone for me now.

[John Leidle]

   Summer of 1992 rumor had it... Paul Walker uses up a gallon of fuel after he comes home from work, practicing. ( Before the trip to CZ)
            Some kinda intensity, John L.

[Doug Moon]

Wow, you sure missed your chance....I now have to demote you to a mere mortal now....63 more should be a piece of cake.

Ah, the good old days, when I used to average almost 20 flights a day for the month before a Nat's. Those days are gone for me now.

One would think with that super flying circle in your front yard you could get 20 in your pajamas before breakfast....what gives??

[Paul Walker]

One would think with that super flying circle in your front yard you could get 20 in your pajamas before breakfast....what gives??

Jeeeezzzeee.......Get it right, it's in my backyard!!!!!

OK, a first for me. In my quest to get 15 or more a day, I was flying after the sun set. Wow, what nice air tonight! On my last flight I used the moon as a marker for my overhead eights! I had never done that before, but it worked great.

Note: Need to fly just after sunset more often...

[Norm Faith Jr.]

Do you mean 425 on this plane?  Or added to the 362 you already have?

I have 13 patterns on my plane this year. 

I got 3 patterns on Bobs plane this past weekend for a whopping total of 16 patterns!   

I watched your whole flight with Bob's plane. I mentioned to you that all you needed was a pipe in your hand. What I failed to mention to you, (if someone hadn't already) Your triangles and  hour glass (from where I was standing) IMHO...were the best that I've seen done. If I can figure a way to do it,  I'll try get the video from my phone to the forum. The flying of Bob's plane at the memorial was a very "moving tribute." Well done!
Norm

[Doug Moon]

Jeeeezzzeee.......Get it right, it's in my backyard!!!!!

Oh, well that explains it then.  In your front yard and 30 a day would be no problem. Or better yet one in front and in back.  That way you can get patterns coming and going!!  Its a no brainer then...  

OK, a first for me. In my quest to get 15 or more a day, I was flying after the sun set. Wow, what nice air tonight! On my last flight I used the moon as a marker for my overhead eights! I had never done that before, but it worked great.

Note: Need to fly just after sunset more often...

In 2012 I flew many flights after dark getting ready for the nats. Once your eyes adjust it's not that bad.  Doesnt matter in your case with electric but night time engine runs are flawless as well.  After dark flights are fun and add a whole new demesion to it.

[Doug Moon]

I watched your whole flight with Bob's plane. I mentioned to you that all you needed was a pipe in your hand. What I failed to mention to you, (if someone hadn't already) Your triangles and  hour glass (from where I was standing) IMHO...were the best that I've seen done. If I can figure a way to do it,  I'll try get the video from my phone to the forum. The flying of Bob's plane at the memorial was a very "moving tribute." Well done!
Norm

Hello Norm,
Thank you for the kind words.  It was a real honor and I was proud to fly that flight.  The plane is pretty darn awesome! It is very light and very nimble.  The controls are very quick.  Bob really liked them that way.  He flew on his finger tips. The motor just cruises along not knowing anything is back there. There are no surprises with the motor run.  Every time I flew the plane it was pretty emotional for me and the tribute flight especially.  Thank you again.

[john e. holliday]

You guys are iron men.  I get 3 flights in and start losing concentration.  So now I take a knock about plane that I just free style seeing how low I can get during the maneuvering.   Then I may put up a couple of patterns just to see if I need to quit or not.  Also flying in calm conditions, how can you get used to flying when it's windy and/or gusty.  I can see trimming a plane in the calm.

[Matt Colan]

All this talk of practice and I'm still watching the water evaporate from my backyard hoping to fly...10 flights since May 5th certainly isn't gonna cut it...I blame Mother Nature

[Allan Perret]

Hello Norm,
Thank you for the kind words.  It was a real honor and I was proud to fly that flight.  The plane is pretty darn awesome! It is very light and very nimble.  The controls are very quick.  Bob really liked them that way.  He flew on his finger tips. The motor just cruises along not knowing anything is back there. There are no surprises with the motor run.  Every time I flew the plane it was pretty emotional for me and the tribute flight especially.  Thank you again.

Hey Doug:     "Bob's plane"  what motor does it have and what does it weigh?     Is it the exact same design as the Bear plan UHP sells ?

[Doug Moon]

Hey Doug:     "Bob's plane"  what motor does it have and what does it weigh?     Is it the exact same design as the Bear plan UHP sells ?

Hello Allan,

You can see a pic of it here.

http://stunthanger.com/smf/index.php/topic,39752.0.html

I will put some details there as not to further hijack Steve's thread showing how he most awesomely stuffed his Dreadnought, and didnt even hurt the spinner.... 

[Paul Walker]

I like to fly up until dark and the previous camo airplane was hard to see so I picked the brightest color possible... just kidding... I know it looks like a pumpkin now but I think my idea in the end will look cool. If it doesn't o well at least I have a plane.

-Chris

That was partly the reason foy my day glo paint schemes of the 90's. That and to be seen better with trees in the background....Which many of the sites in Europe  that I visited had.

I had a friend tell me he could see the plane from 2 miles away (as the crow flies). That's visible!

Your orange will work quite well I think.

See you in Muncie.

[Paul Walker]

One would think with that super flying circle in your front yard you could get 20 in your pajamas before breakfast....what gives??

Sitting here thinking, "should I fly or should I do some yard work this morning"? Tough decision....

Hard to see the wind streamers at the field (in the reduced size photo) but they show about a nice 8 mph wind speed, andvthe temp is almost 80, with relatively low humidity.

[Chris_Rud]

That was partly the reason foy my day glo paint schemes of the 90's. That and to be seen better with trees in the background....Which many of the sites in Europe  that I visited had.

I had a friend tell me he could see the plane from 2 miles away (as the crow flies). That's visible!

Your orange will work quite well I think.

See you in Muncie.

I have changed my goal to be 150 before the Nats. Maybe Hercules. Half immortal half mortal...

The plane should be done by the end of the weekend. All that is left is the inking and clear.

See you in Muncie!

[Doug Moon]

Chris,
Looks great!  Love the detail on the tail section!!! I wish I could do that.

[Doug Moon]

Sitting here thinking, "should I fly or should I do some yard work this morning"? Tough decision....

Hard to see the wind streamers at the field (in the reduced size photo) but they show about a nice 8 mph wind speed, andvthe temp is almost 80, with relatively low humidity.

All right!!  That tears it!!  I am putting in for retirement right now!!!!!!!  Checking the account to make sure we are all good....

.......

reality jsut kicked in.  DAMN IT!!  Looks like many more years of work for this guy....

So Jealous in TX!!!!

[Steve Fitton]

That was a quick finish Chris!  What kind of paint are you using?

[Chris_Rud]

That was a quick finish Chris!  What kind of paint are you using?

All Randolph dope but for primer I used NAPAs dc540 primer. It dries sand able in 10 minutes. I wouldn't be able to get the plane done without it. 7 days ago all I had done was the wing and fuse. I built the tail, cowl and assembled the plane in 2 days and have been finishing for 5 days. Should be flying by Sunday. I will only loose 10 days of my practice schedule. I hope it flies close to the same as the one I lost.

[Chris_Rud]

That was a quick finish Chris!  What kind of paint are you using?

How is yours coming?

[Doug Moon]

All Randolph dope but for primer I used NAPAs dc540 primer. It dries sand able in 10 minutes. I wouldn't be able to get the plane done without it. 7 days ago all I had done was the wing and fuse. I built the tail, cowl and assembled the plane in 2 days and have been finishing for 5 days. Should be flying by Sunday. I will only loose 10 days of my practice schedule. I hope it flies close to the same as the one I lost.

You dont have a job??   

[Derek Barry]

The new plane looks awesome Chris!! Its very impressive how quickly you got that done.

Steve, considering the angle of impact, those were some near perfect triangles.

Derek

[Chris_Rud]

You dont have a job??   

My wife is very understanding. She gets it and this wouldn’t be possible with out her. I was lucky cause I took two days off of work to go to Brodak and the plane crashed the day before. So I essentially had 4 days with no other responsibilities. That was the saving grace.

Anyway the plane has two coats of clear and I will sand it out tonight and put on two more and call it good. As of now its 57 oz so I’m guessing all said and done it will be 59oz. I was very surprised since this is a foam wing. I was expecting 3 oz extra since the wing was 13 oz and the lost foam wing was 9 oz. I new I would save a little weight with the finish but not that much. So it will be very close to the weight of the last one.

[Doug Moon]

Finally after all these years "The Great Pumkin" has shown himself!

Model looks great.  I bet it flys good to.  Some of the best ones are the ones we slam together and dont over think every step.

[Brett Buck]

I was very surprised since this is a foam wing. I was expecting 3 oz extra since the wing was 13 oz and the lost foam wing was 9 oz. I new I would save a little weight with the finish but not that much. So it will be very close to the weight of the last one.

   We have found the same thing, time and again - the weight you gain with foam is made up in the finish.

     Brett