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General control line discussion => Open Forum => Topic started by: Mike Griffin on January 14, 2013, 04:45:37 PM
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Lynn Weedman's post triggered something in my mind I wanted to ask this community. I thought I might build a CL Bi-Plane sometime this year but have not idea what a good design might be or what plans might be out there to look at. I don't care if it is a profile or built up fuse. I do NOT want to build a Bi Slob...
Anybody have any suggestions..??
Thanks
Mike
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Get you a 38 Special I think Tom Dixon may have some of them.
Lynn Weedman
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Which pattern do you intend to fly with your Biplane? Old time, or the modern pattern?
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Get plans for the challenger 4 by Pete Miller from Flying Models. Designed by a modeller who did quite a few for aeromodeller .
Dennis
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How about a scale Stearman, capable of the full Stunt pattern? 44" span; realistic structure; .40 power: plans available from Don Hutchinson, dhutch2(at)sbcglobal(dot)net.
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My personal obsession is with "Moitle", reputed to be the first control line plane to fly inverted.
It's a 1948 design, symmetrical airfoil biplane with reasonable-appearing dimensions. Looks like it'll take a Fox 35 or some more modern and boring equivalent. The fuselage is every bit as svelt and shapely as the name suggests...
I haven't built one, so I can't tell you how it'll fly.
Plans are floating around out there on the Internet.
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I think the "Over Easy" claimed that also.
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http://www.clacro.de/Seite_falco.htm
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Look at the Biceps or the Boogie Woogie.
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Claus Maikis of Germany did a really pretty one called the Duetto. It supposedly flew very well but he claimed it was not really competitive in F2B.
His e-mail for contact is cmaikis@t-online.de
Claus is s very nice guy, speaks english very well and does fantastic finishes (and very funny cartoons). He's a proffessional artist by trade.
Randy Cuberly
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What about John Miller's recent bipe design? I think it's called "Two-Bits"?
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Mike
My vote is for a Pat King Ringmaster Bipe, .35 size. A friend built one this fall for the fly a thon and it was nice.
Duke
My 15 year old says the Motile.
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For just plain fun, try a BiSlob.
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Mike
My vote is for a Pat King Ringmaster Bipe, .35 size.
Forgot about that one, that could be a lot of fun.
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Mike,
I have a bunch of Bi-planes from small to rather large. What size engine do you want to use?
Pat
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Pat I have engines for anything from a .25 to a .46. Pretty good range there. I do not own a FOX35 and have no idea why I dont. LOL....I pretty open to the size.
Mike
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For just plain fun, try a BiSlob.
If you read his opening post completely he stated that he DID NOT want to build a Bi Slob.
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Hi Garf. I had a Bi Slob and had a lot of fun with it hovering it etc but I was looking for something a little nicer looking and a good flyer. I have such a bad back I cannot compute anymore and cannot ever bend over backwards for some of the overhead maneuvers anymore so I just fly for fun and do what stunts this broken back will allow me to do...I just have as much fun as it will allow.
Mike
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Mike, I think that a Flying Fool makes a pretty good sport flyer and can be powered with most anything from a .19 to a .35. Its a pretty easy build and looks good as well.
Regards, Phil Bare
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On the low end, the Sig SPAD XIII can do the basics with a 35.
Almost no investment of time & money.
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I have no idea what a good design might be or what plans might be out there to look at.
Anybody have any suggestions..??
Thanks
Mike
What do you mean when you ask about a "good design". If you are just looking for a sport ship that looks nice but struggles with anything more than a loop, the Flying Fool will do OK. If you are looking for something that looks "good" and flies "good" (as in being capable of a full stunt pattern), you cannot do much better than select the Hutchinson Stearman that Mike Keville has already suggested. The Clause Maikis desing also works well and looks "good". If you are looking for something different, other than the number of other suggestions already thrown out there, I could go through my files and probably list 20 more biplanes from being barely stunt capable to maybe having some pattern capabilities. It will take a while because I do not have a separate file for biplanes.
Keith
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SE5a kitted by Casburn. Designed by my Dad and Duane Life.
OK, the kit was a nightmare but the plane flew pretty decent.
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I fly a Sig Ultimate Bi-Plane that was converted to c/l powered by a max 60 it will do the pattern. I do fly it in profile stunt it is a blast to fly too.
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What do you mean when you ask about a "good design". If you are just looking for a sport ship that looks nice but struggles with anything more than a loop, the Flying Fool will do OK. If you are looking for something that looks "good" and flies "good" (as in being capable of a full stunt pattern), you cannot do much better than select the Hutchinson Stearman that Mike Keville has already suggested. The Clause Maikis desing also works well and looks "good". If you are looking for something different, other than the number of other suggestions already thrown out there, I could go through my files and probably list 20 more biplanes from being barely stunt capable to maybe having some pattern capabilities. It will take a while because I do not have a separate file for biplanes.
Keith
I sent you a PM Keith
Mike
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I am in the process of building another "Moitle". It has a 38" span, 432 sq in wing area, Torp 32 on spark ignition. The first one I built flew really good with an OS 35 FP in it. It now resides in the AMA museum. (Along with the good running 35!) I was the one who drew up a buildable set of plans from a simple profile view and wing dimensions from a 1946 Air Trails article, the drawings were blessed by Francis reynolds and it became a legal OTS airplane. The original Moitle was built and flown in 1944 by Mr. Reynolds. It was the first model design that could fly both inside and outside maneuvers. My plans are in the PAMPA plans list, It was also published in Model Builder magazine in June of 1996. I may do a Stunt News article on this one titled "How Not to build an OTS model". Need to finish and fly it first.
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I'll throw Brian Sichi's Sopwith 1 1/2 Strutter into the mix. Published in Aeromodeller Mar 57 which I think makes it vintage legal under SAM35 rules. (Which is what we fly over here in the UK).
Apparently quite aerobatic (Although I doubt it with the Frog 500 shown on the plan).
I have a reasonable copy of the plan in pdf form (Which you could probably build from) with the magazine article if anyone is interested.
TTFN
John.
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Didn't Bart Klapinski win or place quite high in OTS at VSC with the Chuck Hollinger designed Fleet biplane? This is another good performing bipe. I saw CH fly the original at the 49 Nats, Torp 29 power. A little easier to build than the Stearman and very nice looking.
Don
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Didn't Bart Klapinski win or place quite high in OTS at VSC with the Chuck Hollinger designed Fleet biplane? This is another good performing bipe. I saw CH fly the original at the 49 Nats, Torp 29 power. A little easier to build than the Stearman and very nice looking.
Don
Hi, Don. You're right. I think Bart placed 2nd that year (although he may have won; I can't recall). His Fleet bipe was a beauty! Chuck Hollinger's construction article was in an early 'Air Trails', 1951 or '52, thus the plans may be available via the AMA website's plan service, although I haven't checked.
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I am in the process of building another "Moitle".
Don, how would you say the "Moitle" compares with, say, a Ringmaster? Better, worse, about the same?
I have a copy of your plans, by the way, and they're very well done.
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If anyone has pictures they can post of some of these Bipes that would help greatly. Thanks Mike..
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Didn't Bart Klapinski win or place quite high in OTS at VSC with the Chuck Hollinger designed Fleet biplane? This is another good performing bipe. I saw CH fly the original at the 49 Nats, Torp 29 power. A little easier to build than the Stearman and very nice looking.
Don
John Callentine did a TravelAir by Jim Hunt (Bob Hunt's dad), Model Airplane News, January 1951, and flew it at several VSC's in OTS. It flies a credible OTS pattern.
Keith
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Is this the Fleet you all were talking about?
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Hi guys,
Don Hutchinson had a Stearman at the Golden State that did a VERY competitive pattern and is a very classy model to boot. It was by far the best bi-plane stunter I ever flew. It was powered with an O.S. .40,but shorten the nose a bit and a .46 would be even better. I think it took 7th even with all the big guys there and no appearance points and only two practice flights.
Tempest
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Did anyone ever kit the Boogie Woogie?
Mike
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I'd go for the 38 Special (with a .46LA if you happen to have one!), but I'm not a big fan of biplanes for CL. When the engine quits, my guess is the ground comes along pretty quickly. H^^ Steve
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Did anyone ever kit the Boogie Woogie?
Mike
Don't believe it has been done.
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Thanks Bill
Mike
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My 38 Special flies better than I do with any good .40 in the power area. Not a world beater, but does a really decent pattern.
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Moitle vs. Ringmaster?? Depends on the Ring's weight and power, average numbers I would give the Moitle a small edge. Here is the only photo of the Stearman in my files plus a photo of Moitle as it stands right now..
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Somehow the Stearman photo didn't come up, will try again.
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Don,
Your bellcrank looks great! Always wanted to try that.
Looks like a smooth operation.
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The round bellcrank was so that I could exit the leadouts through a tiny hole in the side of the fuselage instead of cutting two big ugly slots. Note the copper tube leadout guides. It is mounted via a 3/16th ID flanged ball bearing held with a 10-32 titanium bolt. It had nothing tio do with the control response, I can't sense any difference between it and a standard bellcrank nor has anyone else who has flown one of my Stearmans commented on it.
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Hi guys,
Don Hutchinson had a Stearman at the Golden State that did a VERY competitive pattern and is a very classy model to boot. It was by far the best bi-plane stunter I ever flew. It was powered with an O.S. .40,but shorten the nose a bit and a .46 would be even better. I think it took 7th even with all the big guys there and no appearance points and only two practice flights.
Tempest
That's some very high praise. y1
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If memory serves, Bart scored 492 with that Stearman....without appearance points. That says a lot for this magnificent design.
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Hi Mike, here are a few interesting Biplanes.
The Coon Dog is an interesting Cayton design. I happen to have one sitting here to look at. Believe me, It looks a lot better in person than it does on paper. The one I'm looking at was built by Lynn Haslem, a clubmate, back in the mid to late 50's. He told me it was a good flying plane.
He's loaned it to me to take to VSC. I have permission to fly it if I want to while there. What I really want from his version of the design, is to document the changes he made. I really like the changes such as a radial cowl, wheel covers, and the coverings on the gear.
The Lynx is a bit similar, but has a lower, more streamlined appearance, compared to the Coon Dog. It's a British design, from the same time period.
The third plan set is for the "Hot Foot". It seems to have a good reputation. It looks like it would be.
The fourth plan set, is another Cayton design, called "The Bi-Liner" It looks neat, and would be a fun one, as well as an interesting plan to show up at the field with.
The last picture is of my attempt at a full fledged Biplane stunter. It's called "2 Bits Bipe". I'm currently getting ready to build a new set of wings to increase the wing area. It's a smooth flying design, with a nice groove in level flight, and turns great rounds. It came out with too heavy of a wing loading, and has a wing dip type of problem, when turning a tight square corner. I fear that it may be more than what you are looking for.
I've seen Don Hutchinsons biplane fly, and it can turn in a very good flight in the right hands. It's also probably more than you need, at this time.
It, like mine, is not a simple design. You are a good enough builder, so it's probably not going to be a problem.
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The last picture is of my attempt at a full fledged Biplane stunter. It's called "2 Bits Bipe".
Two sets of wing drawings, and no fuselage drawing?
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Hey Mike, just came from the scale section of the forum. Under the Bonanza build post there is a video of a Staggerwing Beech(Beechcraft). I built the Jack Sheeks version a few years ago and powered it with an OS .40. It was an attention getter. I pulled it out of the car at VSC and it was a good hour before i could get to the pits with it for a flight. To me it was a good flying bi-plane. It just needed a better builder/pilot. The plane has been in the hands of Elwyn Aud for some years now as I thought he deserved it from all the photos he took of it. But, anyway watching the video of the aerobatic version of the Staggerwing makes me want to build another one. As it was an I-Beam you can imagine how many ribs I had to cut to build it. Jack even launched it for me that year if I remember right.
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For the biplane lovers, try this on for sight and sound. http://vimeo.com/56564601
There are other biplanes that might make a better stunt model but this airplane is just beautiful!
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BEAUTIFUL!
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I really enjoyed that, Don. Thanks. 'hadn't heard John Denver sing that song for a long time either, as Gusti remarked wistfully from the other room, since we lost him and his Vari Eze a few years ago. She sings that once in a while. Maybe I can get her to watch the Stearman over its own country roads.
SK
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was it Al rabe that did a ' 59er ' biplane for the Fox 59 centuries ago .
Was drawing & a bit of tech. in American Modeler , early sixties .
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I think there was a design called "Dancing Girl" by a British guy (Peter Miller?) in Model Airplane News. This design (or similar) was later published in Aeromodeller as a free plan.
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Thanks A Lot, Mike!!
I've been following this thread about Biplanes for C/L Stunt with serious interest. Back when I was flying R/C I used to love Biplanes and had quite a few. Now that I'm flying control line exclusively, the lure and appeal of biplanes has emerged again, thanks to your posting.
In fact I researched and talked with my fellow flying buddies about the 38 Special, and heard such great things I just had to go out and order one for myself!!
So thanks a lot, I've got another kit to build, ha!!
Steve T.
P.S. I know a few guys have converted the Sig Fazer over to control line, has anyone tried the Sig profile Ultimate??
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Well thank you Steve, I hoped it helped in some manner. I have some plans of the DUETTO coming and I want to see if before I make up my mind. I do have a Stearman Kit coming that I hope to build. Also like the looks of the Boogie Woogie. I pretty much like the looks of those as far as building....just have always loved Bi Planes but never built one....
Mike