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General control line discussion => Open Forum => Topic started by: dave siegler on December 04, 2015, 06:16:58 PM
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Our club has a biplane mass fly that we do for demos. Many of the airplanes are derivatives of the old Johny Casburn SE5, or the SIG D7, Spad. They really are limited int what they can do.
They have a rough life.
I want to build something a little different.
One guy flies a 38 special. I am looking for something that flies like the 38 special, but looks like WWI up to the 1940's biplane. I suppose I could change the outline of the wingtips and tail of a 38 special, but wonder if there isn't anything out there already worked out.
40 size, RC throttle
easy to build
profile (probably)
Looks 1919 to 1940 ish.
Very (sport stuff) aerobatic. need to be unafraid to stick it in the ground, land inverted, or do tough and go's
Any plans for F4b, Stearman, Waco, travel air or Fokker or Sopwith triplane? Biplane racers? Old biplane combat plans? Tiger Moth?
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If you've been flying a casburn SE5 with a 40 on it.......I would imagine that you've had problems. :o
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If you've been flying a casburn SE5 with a 40 on it.......I would imagine that you've had problems. :o
I don't know the plans have been hand drawn and passed around most have old kb 35's on them, and are 3 line. yes they are pretty small.
I have a few FP40's to use and would like a bigger better stunting airplane.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/--RAdWeRMlDE/VeR2CyxU0vI/AAAAAAAAOUQ/iJAqCulpSPA/s800-Ic42/Sussex%252520threshing%252520bee%2525202015%252520-%25252010.jpg)
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I think Alan Brikhaus did a Solution profile about that size , in F.M. ??
(http://www.airminded.net/lcdw500/ss_10oc77.jpg)
YOU look like you enjoy a CHALLENGE ! S?P VD~
(http://waterandpower.org/Historical_DWP_Photo_Collection_LA_Public_Library/Curtis_1912.jpg)
(http://www.airplanesandrockets.com/airplanes/images2/curtiss-pusher-plans-nov-1948-air-trails-2400x1150.jpg)
R3C1 Curtiss would be similar to Laird to build.
(http://static.thisdayinaviation.com/wp-content/uploads/tdia//2012/10/BETTIS-Cyrus.-K.-Lieutenant-USAAS-with-Curtiss-R3C-1-racer-Mitchel-Field-12-October-19251.jpg)
Nicea the Picture .
(http://static.thisdayinaviation.com/wp-content/uploads/tdia//2012/10/800x632xCurtiss-Racer-with-Lieutenant-Cyrus-Bettis-1925-Pulitzer-Trophy-Race.jpg.pagespeed.ic.Mbia459abc.jpg)
Sussed this sucker for s t r e t c h e d C/L with thinish wings, the olde solid LE preformed & TE trick , to reduce ' interfearence ',
cept its got floats . You need about 6 in wing to wing if say 1 3/8 thick , 40 odd span .
(http://www.nasm.si.edu/blogmedia/curtiss2.jpg)
Gloster would do too , if your going racing . Wingserabit trickier . Someone did a profile MC72 with profile floats , so wouldnt have to weigh a ton.
(http://steeljawscribe.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/R3C21.jpg)
(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/ea/14/90/ea14909b807f9953d5d9b481596f44eb.jpg)
(http://hushkit.files.wordpress.com/2012/10/andy1.jpg?w=490)
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Hi Dave,
A very good friend of mine (and a highly accomplished stunt pilot) has drawn an SE-5 based on the 38 Special. He just took the plans and redrew over them. Flies great (just like the 38 Special) and is super easy to do! I suggest you do the same thing. It is easier than it sounds. None of the moments, airfoil, or anything else is changed, and you could use just about any WW-1 biplane for the redraw. Should be just the ticket for what you want to do. Just use a pencil and a 3 view or pictures, and draw/erase until you get what you want!
Bill
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(http://www.outerzone.co.uk/images/thumbs/plans/4587.jpg)
(http://www.outerzone.co.uk/images/thumbs/plans/4930.jpg)
Theres a similar one called Toots or somesuch that looks more like an aeroplane .
( the fuse. profiles more like the Cavilier there )
(http://www.clacro.de/falco_seite/milli.gif)
Just substitute 1/2 sheet for the fancy parts .
(http://www.clacro.de/falco_seite/compo%201.JPG)
This One cant be toatally apalling .
(http://www.riviste-di-aeromodellismo.it/files/links_interni/le_foto/compostella.jpg)
http://stunthanger.com/smf/open-forum/luciano-compostella-falco-biplane/
(http://www.fiamaero.it/newsmedia/compostella/Compostella.jpg)
probly best to build some wings & get out the hammer & nails, a saw , and maybe a tape measure . S?P :##
If the bits are in the right place and aligned and the density aproaches that of air , it should fly o.k. .
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Our club has a biplane mass fly that we do for demos. Many of the airplanes are derivatives of the old Johny Casburn SE5, or the SIG D7, Spad.
(Clip)
Any plans for F4b, Stearman, Waco, travel air or Fokker or Sopwith triplane? Biplane racers? Old biplane combat plans? Tiger Moth?
JC Yates did a scale PT-17 Stearman, published in the April 1950 issue of Air Trails. This was capable of the OTS pattern and it won scale at the Nats with Bob Palmer flying it. (There was a thing then called "Team Scale" or something like that.) Plans are available from the AMA plans service. Don Hutchinson might have plans for his version of that Yates Stearman. With Bart Klapinski at the handle, he won VSC OTS one year with this thing. Super looking model that really flies well. If you want a bipe that looks and flies great, get hold of Don and he might be able to provide plans.
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Check my web site: www.pdkllc.com
My WW I airplanes are for .45 size engines, not .40 . The Sopwith Camel and Fokker shown have symmetrical airfoil. They will stunt, but not with a .40 .
Pat
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I don't know the plans have been hand drawn and passed around most have old kb 35's on them, and are 3 line. yes they are pretty small.
I have a few FP40's to use and would like a bigger better stunting airplane.
[img]
My Dad designed the SE 5 that the kit was made from.
He was not excited by the kit. The wing got thinned, among other things.
My brother Clayton was involved in the destruction of the SE5 that was used to work up the kit. Henry Werner might still have the pieces.
I still have the DR1 triplane that they also flew. 28" span, about 300 sq inches and a Johnson 35. I cannot imagine a modern 40 on it.
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Find the Outerzone site and look up Zephyr. I've flown mine with a throttled Max 40. I can send a photo in a few days.
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I would probably start with the "Flying Fool."
Great looking and popular bi-plane right out of the box.
Add a center wing and a few other mods and you could have an interesting model.
Always one or two for sale on ebay and, I don't remember who, but someone offers a laser cut kit of the "Flying Fool?"
Not a small model and not a large model and I believe, with a wing added, a 40 could be suitable for power?
Charles
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The following link will (I hope) take you to the "HPA-Builders Plan Gallery". At the bottom of the page, middle, you (should) find the 1 1/2 Strutter, which is a 48" biplane stunter. The build may be more involved (full fuselage) then you care to subject to your planned event but is another option.
http://www.hippocketaeronautics.com/hpa_plans/categories.php?cat_id=70
There is also the 39.5" span Zephyr which is a profile.
http://www.hippocketaeronautics.com/hpa_plans/categories.php?cat_id=71&page=3
There is a double log-in/sign up required to down load the plans which are in PDF format.
HTH,
Tony
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I would probably start with the "Flying Fool."
Great looking and popular bi-plane right out of the box.
Add a center wing and a few other mods and you could have an interesting model.
Always one or two for sale on ebay and, I don't remember who, but someone offers a laser cut kit of the "Flying Fool?"
Not a small model and not a large model and I believe, with a wing added, a 40 could be suitable for power?
Charles
For some unknown reason, there is great nostalgia for the Sterling Flying Fool, and they bring big money on eBay, but I doubt there is a worse flying airplane ever kitted. You obviously have not built one, seen a kit, or seen one flown. Wing is way too thin and there is twice the wood in the airplane that you really need for it, and add in typical for the time period Sterling poor grade balsa, bad die crushing, and the luan type wood they substituted for real plywood for doublers and such, and you don't don't have much to work with. The SIG profiles will out fly it I think. use about a 10% thicker airfoil on the SIG profiles and maybe stretch the nose a bit for better balance, and you may be in the ball park for what you want. I had the SIG Spad back in the day, and been such a long time since I flew it, but don't have any real bad memories of it. Still have the fuselage for that and my late younger brother Jim's Fokker D-7 and I plan to resurrect both just for giggles and grins. Will have to build new wings, so may take my own advice and draw up some thicker airfoils for them both.
Type at you later,
Dan McEntee
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Heres the Sig SPAD & Fokker .
(http://www.controllineplans.com/Images/spad7.gif)
(http://www.hippocketaeronautics.com/hpa_plans/data/thumbnails/71/fokker_dvi_-_sig.jpg)
search here S.H. or google pics .
theyre 30 in so'd need 133% for 40. Though 36 in spars & pre shaped le & te 'd do it ?
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Exorcising DEMONS. Built this when I was maybe ten. horrible Diesel shook horribly , Staggered through the air & CRUNCHED at second outing .
Aeromodellor then didnt carry many articals on repairing wrecks, so was inevitably scrapped .
The General Layout might be worth a look . Good Joints And Adequate Glue would help .
Cardboard jigs to align flying surfaces whle the glue kicks off , or some form of ensuring alignment would be a good idea .
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Staggering Details .
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If In Doubt , read the Instructions . ! S?P
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One of the S.A. Australian Lads did a profile ' comic' scale DR1 , was in Airborne mag, will look'n see If I still have it .
Had Massive wings , so not a lot'a gap .
Heres a DR1 for perusal.
(http://www.outerzone.co.uk/images/thumbs/plans/796.jpg)
Maybe single interplane struts are better, but Spruce or ply would be essential , unless its the strut alloy tube.
Laine guide across with multi holes gets a adjustable leadout . Bellcrank though Fuse with pushrod outboard &
Down line afts only sensable /
if the bearers are tapered to say 1/8 in. and go back past pivot, a length of 1/8 piano wire through could be easy & strong .
p.s. Wots a Biplne ! :##
(http://www.modelaircraft.org/plans/images/1990/645.jpg)
Ive had one of these half built for several centuies , just needs glueing together & finish .
Seeing We're being all artistic . ( Whats a Bipe if not artistic. )
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-krOTa8gYWys/T27XWM2_SAI/AAAAAAAAALM/CL5KrSl2YS0/s1600/phpYEAv7DAM.jpg)
FINDING the PLAN .!
maybe this is the F. M. one ?
(http://img0101o.psstatic.com/156751625_control-line-profile-model-air-plane-plans-and-notes-.jpg)
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If you build the SIG Spad, double check the center struts. Got bottom wing on the Fokker D-VII by Blackhawk Models.
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If you build the SIG Spad, double check the center struts. Got bottom wing on the Fokker D-VII by Blackhawk Models.
John,
I've seen your Blackhawk Models Fokker D-VII project, it's coming along nicely. It has inspired me.
So has this Thread!
I think I might take on a Fokker DR-I and build a model of it. I built a small one as a kid.
There's plenty of plans and with the help of a laser cutter, I already have a laser guy in mind, I can get my ribs cut for the three wings, and the wing plywood parts. I hate building wings.
38" in span, three wings, a nice stunt airfoil, possibly a good .30 to .40 could do a Fokker DR-I justice.
With the large scale wheels, it would be a good choice for "off grass" flying.
Matt's Post and the image he placed, is just about all you need to draw up a set of builder's plans.
I might just get to it.
I wonder how many of these have been built for CL?
Matt, thanks for that image.
Doc, keep up that build.
Charles
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What the heck! The rest of the guys have submitted some very worthy suggestions so allow me to add one more. This design is by Pat King and he offers either or both the plans and lazer cut kits upon request. Let me say this has been a pleasure to fly, certainly meets the "WOW' factor for spectators and pilots alike and you certainly will get your share of "attaboys" when you bring it in for those incredible 3-point landings!