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Author Topic: Line III  (Read 1781 times)

Offline David Hoover

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Line III
« on: September 05, 2020, 03:29:10 PM »
Where can I download a copy of Line III that will run on Windows 10?
Thanks.
Life is simple. Eat. Sleep. Fly!
Best, Hoovie

Offline Dave Hull

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Re: Line III
« Reply #1 on: September 05, 2020, 07:04:45 PM »
Hoovie,

Sorry I can't answer your question directly.

However....

The formulas for the line rake settings are available on the NCLRA website, here:

http://nclra.org/Programs/LineRake.php

I can't tell you which version this is (but Bill Lee could), and many folks have played with it and put it out there. I believe that Pete Soule (aka Marlon Gofast) was one of the first to publish such a tool. (I worked in the same company as Pete back in the day....)  I can't say what the differences between the versions are. If I recall correctly, Bob Fogg had a hand in one of the versions made available. The last version I had downloaded as code is lost in antiquity....

With the equations, you could drop it into Excel easily, which of course will run on Windows.

Hope you find what you are looking for,

Dave

Offline David Hoover

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Re: Line III
« Reply #2 on: September 06, 2020, 06:52:15 AM »
Hoovie,

Sorry I can't answer your question directly.

However....

The formulas for the line rake settings are available on the NCLRA website, here:

http://nclra.org/Programs/LineRake.php

I can't tell you which version this is (but Bill Lee could), and many folks have played with it and put it out there. I believe that Pete Soule (aka Marlon Gofast) was one of the first to publish such a tool. (I worked in the same company as Pete back in the day....)  I can't say what the differences between the versions are. If I recall correctly, Bob Fogg had a hand in one of the versions made available. The last version I had downloaded as code is lost in antiquity....

With the equations, you could drop it into Excel easily, which of course will run on Windows.

Hope you find what you are looking for,

Dave

Dave, thanks, that helps immensely.  I can just set up the formulas in Excel which will be far more useful for me that a special Windows program.  Thanks again.
Life is simple. Eat. Sleep. Fly!
Best, Hoovie

Offline BillLee

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Re: Line III
« Reply #3 on: September 06, 2020, 10:12:47 AM »
Dave, thanks, that helps immensely.  I can just set up the formulas in Excel which will be far more useful for me that a special Windows program.  Thanks again.

If I recall, along with the information Dave Hull mentioned, there is an implementation of it also there. You don 't need another program, only a browser.
Bill Lee
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Offline BillLee

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Re: Line III
« Reply #4 on: September 06, 2020, 10:13:10 AM »
Dumb question but how does wing area figure into it?
Drag calculation.
Bill Lee
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Offline Perry Rose

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Re: Line III
« Reply #5 on: September 06, 2020, 11:06:04 AM »
https://www.amazon.com/Johnson-Level-Tool-595-Structo/dp/B00EC8MW5C/ref=sr_1_4?crid=2S1YWSZ7C7U9A&dchild=1&keywords=line+level&qid=1599411894&sprefix=Line+level%2Caps%2C220&sr=8-4


For $3.00 using the grey one you can set the leadouts in a minute. The most accurate way possible. Hang the plane by the leadouts and put the level on the flat section of the nose, move the slider until you get 1/8 inch nose down. Quick, easy and accurate.
I may be wrong but I doubt it.
I wouldn't take her to a dog fight even if she had a chance to win.
The worst part of growing old is remembering when you were young.

Offline BillLee

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Re: Line III
« Reply #6 on: September 06, 2020, 11:22:25 AM »
https://www.amazon.com/Johnson-Level-Tool-595-Structo/dp/B00EC8MW5C/ref=sr_1_4?crid=2S1YWSZ7C7U9A&dchild=1&keywords=line+level&qid=1599411894&sprefix=Line+level%2Caps%2C220&sr=8-4


For $3.00 using the grey one you can set the leadouts in a minute. The most accurate way possible. Hang the plane by the leadouts and put the level on the flat section of the nose, move the slider until you get 1/8 inch nose down. Quick, easy and accurate.

Begs the question of how when you "put the level on the flat section of the nose" you don't affect the CG position and, hence, the leadout placement.
Bill Lee
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Offline BillLee

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Re: Line III
« Reply #7 on: September 06, 2020, 11:32:54 AM »
Bill Lee
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Offline Perry Rose

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Re: Line III
« Reply #8 on: September 06, 2020, 02:10:19 PM »
The level is plastic about 2 inches long and weighs a few grams. There is no effect on the c/g location.
I may be wrong but I doubt it.
I wouldn't take her to a dog fight even if she had a chance to win.
The worst part of growing old is remembering when you were young.

Offline BillLee

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Re: Line III
« Reply #9 on: September 06, 2020, 06:17:34 PM »
https://www.amazon.com/Johnson-Level-Tool-595-Structo/dp/B00EC8MW5C/ref=sr_1_4?crid=2S1YWSZ7C7U9A&dchild=1&keywords=line+level&qid=1599411894&sprefix=Line+level%2Caps%2C220&sr=8-4


For $3.00 using the grey one you can set the leadouts in a minute. The most accurate way possible. Hang the plane by the leadouts and put the level on the flat section of the nose, move the slider until you get 1/8 inch nose down. Quick, easy and accurate.
1/8" ----  appropriate for one model of a particular size being flown at a specific speed.....

Bottom line: there is no one-size-fits-all answer, and that is why programs like LineIII and the NCLRA website exist.
Bill Lee
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Online Brett Buck

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Re: Line III
« Reply #10 on: September 06, 2020, 08:20:15 PM »
Dumb question but how does wing area figure into it?

  It doesn't. This is strictly about the effects on the lines, and the shape they make due to drag. It does assume that the radial load is centrifugal force, but I contend that's what your stunt plane should be doing when trimmed ideally, anyway.

     Brett

Offline Dave Hull

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Re: Line III
« Reply #11 on: September 06, 2020, 10:57:37 PM »
Perry,

You appear to embed an assumption in your method:  that is, you adjust the guide to cause an "...1/8" nose down" setting. One-eighth inch nose down measured where? Tip of the spinner? So the rhetorical question is why have you selected 1/8"?

Your 1/8" rule of thumb may work fine for a certain group of planes of standard dimensions, weights, and speeds (ie. a mid-size stunter that is average in weight and flies about 50-60 mph, or whatever geometry plane you have validated your 1/8" dimension for) but the point of the engineering here is that the actual equations can be used for a specific model, not limited to a mid-size stunter, and still be a very good starting point. The math is perfectly accessible for any builder using the website calculator.

I flew a .15 Rat with a Nelson engine once that the builder used his "rule of thumb" on. It was virtually impossible to take off without an out-of-control wingover into the circle leading to a big loop if you were lucky or had exceptionally quick feet.  After the second rebuild and before the third pilot got a chance to duck a screaming Nelson with integral carbon cleaver attached, another friend ran the Line II program numbers for him and he moved the fixed-position leadouts, it became a manageable flyer, if not a world beater....

Dave



"For $3.00 using the grey one you can set the leadouts in a minute. The most accurate way possible. Hang the plane by the leadouts and put the level on the flat section of the nose, move the slider until you get 1/8 inch nose down. Quick, easy and accurate."

Offline Perry Rose

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Re: Line III
« Reply #12 on: September 07, 2020, 05:42:06 AM »
Dave, if you look at the line level in question you will notice it is marked in fractions of an inch per foot. Simply hang the plane by the leadouts, place the level just in front of the wing on the fuselage nose, for a built up fuselage, or a flat spot on a profile fuselage. The graduation markings on the level must point aft. I have used this method for several years on planes from the Strega, kit and ARF, down to a Flite Streak. Powered by piped 77 engines down to the .25LA and electric. .015 and .018 lines. Kits and scratch built originals.  All set to 1/8 inch per foot nose down. I have checked others planes that were painstakenly adjusted by line 3 and trial and error and found them to be at 1/8 inch per foot nose down. I found my first level at Home Depot. They are easier to get from Amazon. Get one and check your best flying plane. Or better yet set an old plane with the level and see how it flys. I use the nose because the engine crutch is straight and parallel to the fuselage center line. Profiles are flat.







I may be wrong but I doubt it.
I wouldn't take her to a dog fight even if she had a chance to win.
The worst part of growing old is remembering when you were young.

Offline Pat Chewning

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Re: Line III
« Reply #13 on: September 08, 2020, 07:23:31 PM »
The little graduated level should straddle the CG to be the most accurate.  The 1/8" per Foot is a slope of about 1%.  It is not 1/8" displacement at the nose of the plane.

Offline Perry Rose

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Re: Line III
« Reply #14 on: September 09, 2020, 05:37:48 AM »
On a full fuse. plane the area near the c/g generally is where the taper starts and must be avoided. That area on a profile is usable though. I use "per foot" because fuselages are not the same length.
I may be wrong but I doubt it.
I wouldn't take her to a dog fight even if she had a chance to win.
The worst part of growing old is remembering when you were young.

Offline Fred Constantine

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Re: Line III
« Reply #15 on: September 09, 2020, 11:51:11 AM »
The LineIII program can be found at the Tulsa Glue Dobbers website.  Use www.tulsacl.com/Linelll.html to go directly there.

Fred
Fred Constantine
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