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Author Topic: Legacy Build  (Read 64405 times)

Offline john e. holliday

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Re: Legacy Build
« Reply #250 on: February 03, 2019, 02:10:44 PM »
I've done that on a few blocks.   To me it is lighter even though it takes some time to fit the formers. D>K
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Offline Tim Wescott

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Re: Legacy Build
« Reply #251 on: February 03, 2019, 02:32:31 PM »
I've done that on a few blocks.   To me it is lighter even though it takes some time to fit the formers. D>K

I think I spent less time fitting the former than I would have trying to make two wells instead of one.
AMA 64232

The problem with electric is that once you get the smoke generator and sound system installed, the plane is too heavy.

Offline Dave Hull

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Re: Legacy Build
« Reply #252 on: February 03, 2019, 03:01:50 PM »
Tim,

Nice job on the top block! That weight seems respectable.

I just redid a Legacy ARF top. The sheeted portion was all wavy and had some crunching. And the removable front cover seemed like a really bad idea. Replaced it with a block, only lightly hollowed (no guts, but no cracks either), tried to fill the wavy, and one layer of very thin glass. Your construction seems to solve all those issues.

Nice!

Dave

Offline Tim Wescott

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Re: Legacy Build
« Reply #253 on: December 31, 2021, 07:39:55 PM »
Itty bitty modicum of work done, while waiting for some dope to dry on the Ercoupe, and standing by to give advice to my wife, who's doing her first kit built plane (an Akromaster).

Part of fiddling around and not getting work done on this involved switching over to electric -- so I'm converting this one over as I go.  I'm having good success with a BadAss 2826 in the similar-sized Atlantis, so I'm probably going to go with that for this plane.  It looks like if I can get enough air flowing through the motor I'll be A-OK.

Picture shows a rear mount mostly marked up.  That's 1/8" phenolic.
AMA 64232

The problem with electric is that once you get the smoke generator and sound system installed, the plane is too heavy.

Offline Mark wood

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Re: Legacy Build
« Reply #254 on: December 31, 2021, 07:53:07 PM »
Itty bitty modicum of work done, while waiting for some dope to dry on the Ercoupe, and standing by to give advice to my wife, who's doing her first kit built plane (an Akromaster).

Part of fiddling around and not getting work done on this involved switching over to electric -- so I'm converting this one over as I go.  I'm having good success with a BadAss 2826 in the similar-sized Atlantis, so I'm probably going to go with that for this plane.  It looks like if I can get enough air flowing through the motor I'll be A-OK.

Picture shows a rear mount mostly marked up.  That's 1/8" phenolic.

That's a great motor. I have one and several of the Cobra versions. Fits really well in that 25 - 35 conversion zone.
Life is good AMA 1488
Why do we fly? We are practicing, you might say, what it means to be alive...  -Richard Bach
“Physics is like sex: sure, it may give some practical results, but that’s not why we do it.” – Richard P. Feynman

Offline Tim Wescott

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Re: Legacy Build
« Reply #255 on: December 31, 2021, 08:42:51 PM »
That's a great motor. I have one and several of the Cobra versions. Fits really well in that 25 - 35 conversion zone.

This is more a 40-60 conversion zone.  690 square inches, 64 ounces if I'm lucky, but I tend to build heavy so I won't fall out of my chair if it's as high as 72.  I'm not committed yet -- I may go with a 35xx.
AMA 64232

The problem with electric is that once you get the smoke generator and sound system installed, the plane is too heavy.

Offline Mark wood

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Re: Legacy Build
« Reply #256 on: January 01, 2022, 02:09:19 AM »
This is more a 40-60 conversion zone.  690 square inches, 64 ounces if I'm lucky, but I tend to build heavy so I won't fall out of my chair if it's as high as 72.  I'm not committed yet -- I may go with a 35xx.

The 2826 is a good 40 size equivalent I missed the 26 part. The 2820 is more suited for the 25-35 planes. The 36xx are good torque mongers and for the airplane I would probably just drop the 3520 in. It's likely the CG is going to be aft and the slightly greater weight of the 3520 will be helpful. I'd honestly go with the Badass motors in that case.

Chili, beer and spumante has me up cause I didn't take the omeprazole before going to bed. Now I'm paying for it.
Life is good AMA 1488
Why do we fly? We are practicing, you might say, what it means to be alive...  -Richard Bach
“Physics is like sex: sure, it may give some practical results, but that’s not why we do it.” – Richard P. Feynman

Offline Tim Wescott

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Re: Legacy Build
« Reply #257 on: January 12, 2022, 09:07:35 PM »
Because what's the point if it doesn't have parts that are hand machined from solid billet?

Tail wheel.  The tire is from a toy semi truck from Goodwill ($1 for 10 tires!).  Wheel made by taking a hunk of aluminum and cutting away all the bits that don't look like a wheel.  I'll be soldering the tubing to the tail wheel strut, and using the cotter pin to retain the wheel.

I feel this gives a cleaner look than the usual wheel collar, and is more secure than soldering a washer on the end of a piece of music wire.
AMA 64232

The problem with electric is that once you get the smoke generator and sound system installed, the plane is too heavy.

Offline MikeyPratt

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Re: Legacy Build
« Reply #258 on: January 16, 2022, 02:38:53 PM »
Hi Tim,
Way to go buddy, stay at it until you have a straight wing.  Your hard work will pay off with a good flying model, good for you.  This would be a good home for the Bad Ass 3515 710 KV motor that we talked about on another post.  Build the fuse to allow changing the battery pack from the left side kinda like an SV-11 with a removable battery floor to access the ESC & timer for adjustments.

Looking forward to see your progress you make on it,

Later,
Mikey

Offline Tim Wescott

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Re: Legacy Build
« Reply #259 on: January 30, 2022, 01:11:50 PM »
... Build the fuse to allow changing the battery pack from the left side kinda like an SV-11 with a removable battery floor to access the ESC & timer for adjustments.

You're making me think -- really.  I'm probably still going to go with a bottom hatch because, if nothing else, the fuse is already built for slime and I'm doing a last-minute conversion, and a bottom hatch means just building the cowl different, not whacking a great big hole in the fuselage.

But it's a great big hole in the _unfinished_ fuselage, so dammit, now I have to mull this over.
AMA 64232

The problem with electric is that once you get the smoke generator and sound system installed, the plane is too heavy.

Offline Tim Wescott

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Re: Legacy Build
« Reply #260 on: January 30, 2022, 01:17:07 PM »
Motor mount.  1/8" thick phenolic, for a rear-mounted 2826.  I know the 3515 is probably better, and if I'd been building the fuselage for it from the start it wouldn't be a problem -- but I don't want to do the hacking and whacking necessary, and based on my experience with my Atlantic electric conversion, this should work.

In spite of what it looks like, that firewall/motor mount is in there straight.  It's as close to vertical as I can get it, and angled toward the outside by less than a degree -- and I can always shim the motor if necessary.
AMA 64232

The problem with electric is that once you get the smoke generator and sound system installed, the plane is too heavy.

Offline Tim Wescott

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Re: Legacy Build
« Reply #261 on: January 30, 2022, 07:01:17 PM »
I went to test-fit everything, knowing that the motor body goes through the hole in the spinner ring [just fine], and was dismayed to find out that the motor wires wouldn't fit.

Fortunately, wiggle room was available -- I used a trick I learned from the folks who made cables at FLIR systems.  You can make a fairly tight permanent bend in a wire by heating it up good and warm then bending it and holding it until it's cool.  As long as you don't do that more than once or twice, you won't hurt the wires, either.

So -- motor wires bent, and the motor fits.  I included a motor with un-bent wires for comparison.
AMA 64232

The problem with electric is that once you get the smoke generator and sound system installed, the plane is too heavy.

Offline Mark wood

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Re: Legacy Build
« Reply #262 on: January 30, 2022, 10:24:02 PM »
You're making me think -- really.  I'm probably still going to go with a bottom hatch because, if nothing else, the fuse is already built for slime and I'm doing a last-minute conversion, and a bottom hatch means just building the cowl different, not whacking a great big hole in the fuselage.

But it's a great big hole in the _unfinished_ fuselage, so dammit, now I have to mull this over.

Side load is the way.. Never have to worry about the battery departing in normal operations.
Life is good AMA 1488
Why do we fly? We are practicing, you might say, what it means to be alive...  -Richard Bach
“Physics is like sex: sure, it may give some practical results, but that’s not why we do it.” – Richard P. Feynman

Offline Tim Wescott

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Re: Legacy Build
« Reply #263 on: January 30, 2022, 11:10:23 PM »
Side load is the way.. Never have to worry about the battery departing in normal operations.

But -- appearance points at local contests, where the judges don't always look at the bottom of the plane...
AMA 64232

The problem with electric is that once you get the smoke generator and sound system installed, the plane is too heavy.

Offline Mark wood

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Re: Legacy Build
« Reply #264 on: January 31, 2022, 05:36:40 AM »
But -- appearance points at local contests, where the judges don't always look at the bottom of the plane...

So, make it functional and cool.
Life is good AMA 1488
Why do we fly? We are practicing, you might say, what it means to be alive...  -Richard Bach
“Physics is like sex: sure, it may give some practical results, but that’s not why we do it.” – Richard P. Feynman

Offline MikeyPratt

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Re: Legacy Build
« Reply #265 on: February 05, 2022, 12:11:59 PM »
Hi Guy’s,
The side access “in my opinion” is the best way to go.  You can dress it up with a cheek cowl or scoop, and, you can change batteries while it’s setting on it’s wheels for quick turnaround for the next flight.

Later,
Mikey

Offline Tim Wescott

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Re: Legacy Build
« Reply #266 on: February 05, 2022, 12:20:07 PM »
Hi Guy’s,
The side access “in my opinion” is the best way to go.  You can dress it up with a cheek cowl or scoop, and, you can change batteries while it’s setting on it’s wheels for quick turnaround for the next flight.

Later,
Mikey

Y'know, I still haven't figured out the best bottom-mount hatch for this thing, and your suggestion is suddenly sounding a lot better.  Even if I get dinged for appearance points I think I'll do it.  Given that the fuse is already half built, it'll be a way to cut out a big chunk of unnecessary plywood, too.

It'll also simplify my current problem, which is coming up with a front airscoop that's shaped nice, has the right internal ducting, and can be sanded inside and out, all while still allowing me to get the motor in and out.
AMA 64232

The problem with electric is that once you get the smoke generator and sound system installed, the plane is too heavy.

Offline Mark wood

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Re: Legacy Build
« Reply #267 on: February 05, 2022, 12:42:34 PM »
Y'know, I still haven't figured out the best bottom-mount hatch for this thing, and your suggestion is suddenly sounding a lot better.  Even if I get dinged for appearance points I think I'll do it.  Given that the fuse is already half built, it'll be a way to cut out a big chunk of unnecessary plywood, too.

It'll also simplify my current problem, which is coming up with a front airscoop that's shaped nice, has the right internal ducting, and can be sanded inside and out, all while still allowing me to get the motor in and out.

Side load is the way....

Lots of good reasons including being able to install the motor providing it is front mounted. Bottom mounting is a PITA since you have to turn the airplane over every time you change batteries. Get your airplane holder, get your tools, flip the airplane over, remove the hatch, unhook retention, remove battery, install new battery, replace retention device, replace hatch, flip airplane over, clear airplane holder from area. Versus, remove hatch, pull out battery, install fresh battery, replace hatch. Easy peasy v PITA. Side load is the way..
Life is good AMA 1488
Why do we fly? We are practicing, you might say, what it means to be alive...  -Richard Bach
“Physics is like sex: sure, it may give some practical results, but that’s not why we do it.” – Richard P. Feynman

Offline Tim Wescott

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Re: Legacy Build
« Reply #268 on: February 05, 2022, 01:57:23 PM »
Side load is the way....

Lots of good reasons including being able to install the motor providing it is front mounted. Bottom mounting is a PITA since you have to turn the airplane over every time you change batteries. Get your airplane holder, get your tools, flip the airplane over, remove the hatch, unhook retention, remove battery, install new battery, replace retention device, replace hatch, flip airplane over, clear airplane holder from area. Versus, remove hatch, pull out battery, install fresh battery, replace hatch. Easy peasy v PITA. Side load is the way..

The entire top third of the Expert contingent in the Pacific Northwest show up with their planes and their plane holders, and load the batteries in the pits.  It's just the done thing.
AMA 64232

The problem with electric is that once you get the smoke generator and sound system installed, the plane is too heavy.

Offline Tim Wescott

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Re: Legacy Build
« Reply #269 on: February 05, 2022, 03:05:36 PM »
Side hatch it is!  Given the amount of room that I have to cut it open, it's kind of tight.  I'm going to open it up 1/4" more lengthwise and maybe 3/8" top to bottom.

Fit checks have the engineers happy and the technicians complaining about the engineers.  I can get my fat fingers in there to reach behind the motor and install it, barely (good, but I think I'll be getting some long-reach, ball-end hex keys), I can get the battery in and out (good), I think I'll need to put some tabs onto the battery so I can get it out easily (well, OK), and I'm not sure yet where the timer and ESC will go -- I may put them on the hatch itself; time will tell on that one.
AMA 64232

The problem with electric is that once you get the smoke generator and sound system installed, the plane is too heavy.

Offline john e. holliday

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Re: Legacy Build
« Reply #270 on: February 05, 2022, 04:48:27 PM »
A piece of tape wrapped around the battery with ends sticking out will do the trick on removal. D>K
John E. "DOC" Holliday
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Offline Tim Wescott

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Re: Legacy Build
« Reply #271 on: February 05, 2022, 11:01:01 PM »
A piece of tape wrapped around the battery with ends sticking out will do the trick on removal. D>K

That's what I did!
AMA 64232

The problem with electric is that once you get the smoke generator and sound system installed, the plane is too heavy.

Offline Don Jenkins

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Re: Legacy Build
« Reply #272 on: February 06, 2022, 07:00:28 AM »

I'm not sure yet where the timer and ESC will go -- I may put them on the hatch itself; time will tell on that one.


Tim,

There may be room below the battery for the ESC and timer.  A 1/16 inch ply floor with large openings glued just below the battery hatch gives a place for the battery to sit and the ESC and timer should be able to slide in from the front under the floor.  Attached is a photo of a motor crutch assembly (available thru Oakieair) which should make what I'm trying to say a bit more clear.  Good luck.

Don

Offline MikeyPratt

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Re: Legacy Build
« Reply #273 on: February 06, 2022, 11:31:50 AM »
Tim,
Make the battery floor removable so the ESC & timer can be mounted to the bottom of the floor, they can both be removed at the same time with the battery out of the way.  One of my models has the ESC and timer mounted to the inside of the hatch, works ok but the next one will have a removable battery floor for easy access to them.  It’s looking pretty good so far, keep it going.

Later,
Mikey

Offline FLOYD CARTER

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Re: Legacy Build
« Reply #274 on: February 06, 2022, 11:47:13 AM »
As I remember, the Brodak Legacy kit was easy enough to build.  It is also a good starting place for experimentation and/or kit-bashing!  Changing some shapes or internal construction details is part of the fun in this hobby.

I started with a Brodak kit and modified rudder and some external shapes.  I got a fine flyer out of it.  Mine uses a Tom Lay Super Tigre 51.

It was different enough to warrant a new name, "Larceny:
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Offline Tim Wescott

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Re: Legacy Build
« Reply #275 on: February 06, 2022, 12:50:41 PM »
Tim,
Make the battery floor removable so the ESC & timer can be mounted to the bottom of the floor, they can both be removed at the same time with the battery out of the way.  One of my models has the ESC and timer mounted to the inside of the hatch, works ok but the next one will have a removable battery floor for easy access to them.  It’s looking pretty good so far, keep it going.

Later,
Mikey

That's a good idea, and may happen now.  I have an added wrinkle that -- if I ever get the software done -- there's an unreleased version of the TUT that records flight data onto a micro SD card.  I want that card to be easily accessible.  But I think I've figured that part out, and a removable floor in the battery space doesn't get in the way of that.

I'm certainly getting an appreciation for why the top dogs in electric are going to larger fuselages -- you can shoe-horn everything in to a slimer, but more volume would make that job much, much easier.
AMA 64232

The problem with electric is that once you get the smoke generator and sound system installed, the plane is too heavy.

Offline Tim Wescott

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Re: Legacy Build
« Reply #276 on: February 06, 2022, 02:59:50 PM »
After a couple of false starts I think I know how to get my brain wrapped around this whole cowl-building process.  I want a big airscoop in front, similar to what I did on the Atlantis, only (hopefully) big enough to actually cool the motor down.  I'm going to do it with molded balsa, so I just made a plug.

I found some appallingly heavy balsa for the job (that's the density, in oz/cubic foot) -- not only appallingly heavy, but it's like oak on one side and "normally heavy" balsa on the other.  It's definitely not something you'd want to build into a plane -- too heavy to be balsa, not strong enough for motor mounts...

Of course, I measured it, noticed it was narrow, started happily whacking away at it and then realized that I needed to make it wider.  If I'd paid attention I could have just glued a nice flat piece of 3/16" or 1/4" thick scrap to it.  But no, I had to make it necessary to glue on a bazzilion little thinner scraps to get the thickness up.  Fortunately this isn't going to actually fly with the plane.  And I did manage a plug in the end.
AMA 64232

The problem with electric is that once you get the smoke generator and sound system installed, the plane is too heavy.

Offline Tim Wescott

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Re: Legacy Build
« Reply #277 on: February 06, 2022, 05:35:36 PM »
Making up the 6" wide sheet for the scoop.  The last few times I've joined balsa together like this I've been unhappy, and I decided to always go a bit big, then sand things down.

I remembered!  I used 1/8", and I'll be sanding it down to 3/32"!  And dang me if the joint doesn't look just perfect!  The one time I remember to adjust for an imperfect joint...
AMA 64232

The problem with electric is that once you get the smoke generator and sound system installed, the plane is too heavy.

Offline Mark wood

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Re: Legacy Build
« Reply #278 on: February 06, 2022, 06:51:43 PM »
Making up the 6" wide sheet for the scoop.  The last few times I've joined balsa together like this I've been unhappy, and I decided to always go a bit big, then sand things down.

I remembered!  I used 1/8", and I'll be sanding it down to 3/32"!  And dang me if the joint doesn't look just perfect!  The one time I remember to adjust for an imperfect joint...

What am I looking at for a weight there? Looks like a piston rod pin to me. Which happen to be some of my favorite tools around the shop. Good weights and perfect for using as rollers for the heavy machinery. I have a bunch of them from overhauling Lycomings.
Life is good AMA 1488
Why do we fly? We are practicing, you might say, what it means to be alive...  -Richard Bach
“Physics is like sex: sure, it may give some practical results, but that’s not why we do it.” – Richard P. Feynman

Offline Tim Wescott

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Re: Legacy Build
« Reply #279 on: February 06, 2022, 07:02:29 PM »
What am I looking at for a weight there? Looks like a piston rod pin to me. Which happen to be some of my favorite tools around the shop. Good weights and perfect for using as rollers for the heavy machinery. I have a bunch of them from overhauling Lycomings.

It's a cut-off of some high-alloy steel that I got at the local scrap yard.  It's not quite stainless, but definitely not just iron and carbon.  Way hard to machine, but using the very curvature of space-time itself, it does a great job as a clamp.
AMA 64232

The problem with electric is that once you get the smoke generator and sound system installed, the plane is too heavy.

Offline Perry Rose

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Re: Legacy Build
« Reply #280 on: February 07, 2022, 06:12:37 AM »
As I remember, the Brodak Legacy kit was easy enough to build.  It is also a good starting place for experimentation and/or kit-bashing!  Changing some shapes or internal construction details is part of the fun in this hobby.

I started with a Brodak kit and modified rudder and some external shapes.  I got a fine flyer out of it.  Mine uses a Tom Lay Super Tigre 51.

It was different enough to warrant a new name, "Larceny:
I did some bashing on a Legacy kit. Converted to electric with a top load battery box and fuselage gear plus the turtle deck and fin/rudder change.
I may be wrong but I doubt it.
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Offline Tim Wescott

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Re: Legacy Build
« Reply #281 on: February 10, 2022, 12:32:31 PM »
So, not bad.  I didn't want to slit the balsa where it curved in toward the front; that, plus making it around the small-radius curves at the back of the form meant wrapping it pretty tightly.  That, in turn, means that I now have a nice weave pattern from the Ace bandage printed onto the wood.

Not sure what I'll do about that -- "use filler" comes to mind, but I'm concerned about it slowly flatting out under the filler over time, leaving a print in the paint.

At any rate -- I was clever twice, and that was bad.  Clever once in gluing up the wood nice and fast with CA, then clever again experimenting with heating the wood for bending by boiling it.  Boiling water releases CA glue -- did you know that?

My wife was helping me wrap the thing; she suggested just wrapping the two pieces -- that worked out as well as anything.  I'll need to do some trimming and joining on the bottom side, but it'll work out well.  Overall, I'm pleased, and my Legacy will have a nice jet-style airscoop, which is an aesthetic that I like.  (To the extent that -- if you can't figure out how it should look, make it look like a jet!)
AMA 64232

The problem with electric is that once you get the smoke generator and sound system installed, the plane is too heavy.

Offline Mark wood

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Re: Legacy Build
« Reply #282 on: February 10, 2022, 01:45:01 PM »
So, not bad.  I didn't want to slit the balsa where it curved in toward the front; that, plus making it around the small-radius curves at the back of the form meant wrapping it pretty tightly.  That, in turn, means that I now have a nice weave pattern from the Ace bandage printed onto the wood.

Not sure what I'll do about that -- "use filler" comes to mind, but I'm concerned about it slowly flatting out under the filler over time, leaving a print in the paint.

At any rate -- I was clever twice, and that was bad.  Clever once in gluing up the wood nice and fast with CA, then clever again experimenting with heating the wood for bending by boiling it.  Boiling water releases CA glue -- did you know that?

My wife was helping me wrap the thing; she suggested just wrapping the two pieces -- that worked out as well as anything.  I'll need to do some trimming and joining on the bottom side, but it'll work out well.  Overall, I'm pleased, and my Legacy will have a nice jet-style airscoop, which is an aesthetic that I like.  (To the extent that -- if you can't figure out how it should look, make it look like a jet!)

Probably a little ambitious with the tension. Practice. Looks good though.
Life is good AMA 1488
Why do we fly? We are practicing, you might say, what it means to be alive...  -Richard Bach
“Physics is like sex: sure, it may give some practical results, but that’s not why we do it.” – Richard P. Feynman

Offline Tim Wescott

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Re: Legacy Build
« Reply #283 on: February 10, 2022, 02:27:46 PM »
Probably a little ambitious with the tension. Practice. Looks good though.

Not my first rodeo (but not my 100th, either).  I was putting just as much tension as I needed on that to get it to fit down to the form.  Where I was too ambitious was the amount of curvature I was asking from the wood.  I'm actually not unhappy with the results -- if some patterning on the wood is the cost of getting that scoop formed in one step, then I'm a happy camper.
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The problem with electric is that once you get the smoke generator and sound system installed, the plane is too heavy.

Offline Tim Wescott

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Re: Legacy Build
« Reply #284 on: February 11, 2022, 08:16:57 PM »
I put a 1/32 plywood ring on the front, for strength.  Then I put a 3/32" thick balsa layer on top of that, so that the front of the scoop could be rounded.

While I was at it, I sanded the inside of the scoop, in anticipation of wanting it to be all pretty when it's on the plane.

Should be pretty when it's all covered.
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The problem with electric is that once you get the smoke generator and sound system installed, the plane is too heavy.

Offline Tim Wescott

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Re: Legacy Build
« Reply #285 on: February 12, 2022, 09:16:13 PM »
Fitted up to plane.  I just decided to toss my first attempt at making the part that goes between the fuselage and the scoop -- I tried to start with a part that fit the fuse and scoop out a part to hold the scoop, all while getting everything to fit.  Didn't work.

Gonna make try 2 tomorrow, with more bits & pieces in hopes that I'll have something that'll glue up into something that'll fit.

The ultimate plan (assuming I don't drive myself insane trying to make everything fit) is to finish the inside of the scoop nicely back about 1/8 or 1/4", then paint the rest of it flat black to hide all my sins.
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The problem with electric is that once you get the smoke generator and sound system installed, the plane is too heavy.

Offline Ken Culbertson

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Re: Legacy Build
« Reply #286 on: February 13, 2022, 01:05:06 AM »
Fitted up to plane.  I just decided to toss my first attempt at making the part that goes between the fuselage and the scoop -- I tried to start with a part that fit the fuse and scoop out a part to hold the scoop, all while getting everything to fit.  Didn't work.

Gonna make try 2 tomorrow, with more bits & pieces in hopes that I'll have something that'll glue up into something that'll fit.

The ultimate plan (assuming I don't drive myself insane trying to make everything fit) is to finish the inside of the scoop nicely back about 1/8 or 1/4", then paint the rest of it flat black to hide all my sins.
It is the journey, not the destination.  You start with an idea and start gluing bits of scrap together till you don't have any more holes then you carve and sand till you get it close enough for filler to hide all those joints and when it is all finished you cover it with some glass and no one ever knows that you had no idea what it was going to look like when you started and as you look at it finished, it was worth it.

I am curious what the exit hole will look like for that massive scoop!

I am one step further down that insanity trail.  It's Filler Time!
Ken
 
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Offline Tim Wescott

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Re: Legacy Build
« Reply #287 on: February 13, 2022, 09:19:34 AM »
I am curious what the exit hole will look like for that massive scoop!

I think I'm glad you reminded me of that?  Sigh, 'nuther chore -- at least I can think ahead, though.  Probably an exit hole over the motor on the top of the cowl (which worked in the Atlantis), and louvers on the bottom of the hatch or even under the wing.

The ginormous scoop is responding to these mini-scoops on the Atlantis, which I needed to add to keep the motor temperature down.  I decided that rather than trying baby steps, I'd just say "screw it, I'm doubling the area of the scoop".

The Atlantis only has exit holes that are about 2x the size of the entrance; I'll probably stick with that.

This is what I don't want:



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Offline Ken Culbertson

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Re: Legacy Build
« Reply #288 on: February 13, 2022, 10:15:06 AM »
I will pass these along just for grins.  I don't think the Legacy is classic legal, don't know about N-70 so butchering the profile some shouldn't cost you.  My Endgame design is based on Tom Niehbur's "Top Hat" design.  I acquired one of Tom's wings from his estate and designed the rest of the plane around it.  One of the things that comes up from converting later designs is what do you do with the pipe tunnel.  My ansewer was to leave it there and cover it.  Some carefully placed baffles around the wing joint and you have a monstrous cavity to fill with electronic goodies and a flow through of fresh cool chopped up air!

First pix is Endgame II where I extended the hatch to give me bellcrank access.  My point is how easy it was to add that aft air exit.  It too will have the slots, 4 of them.  Second pix is Endgame I.  It had a scoop nearly as large as yours.

Ken
« Last Edit: February 13, 2022, 10:50:05 AM by Ken Culbertson »
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Offline Paul Walker

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Re: Legacy Build
« Reply #289 on: February 13, 2022, 10:31:29 AM »
Tim,

It is apparent you are a good engineer, but didn't take a single art class. I have the same problem.

Engineer says: form follows function
Artist says: function follows form

I struggle to find that balance.

It is a curse....

Offline Tim Wescott

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Re: Legacy Build
« Reply #290 on: February 13, 2022, 04:17:16 PM »
Tim,

It is apparent you are a good engineer, but didn't take a single art class. I have the same problem.

Engineer says: form follows function
Artist says: function follows form

I struggle to find that balance.

It is a curse....

Well I've taken a single art class.

Anything that works is de facto prettier than anything that wins aesthetics awards but doesn't work.
AMA 64232

The problem with electric is that once you get the smoke generator and sound system installed, the plane is too heavy.

Offline Tim Wescott

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Re: Legacy Build
« Reply #291 on: February 27, 2022, 06:43:51 PM »
I figured the way to make it all fit is to build a cradle for the scoop out of multiple pieces, then glue it together.

The fit is still -- atrocious.  To deal with that, I'll glue it together with Gorilla Foaming Glue.  That's all I can think of that will sand anything close to balsa.  I expect that there'll still be some filler around the scoop to cradle joint.

Once the pieces are together, making it fit the fuselage should be a matter of trimming and sanding everything flat with an idiot board.
AMA 64232

The problem with electric is that once you get the smoke generator and sound system installed, the plane is too heavy.

Offline Steve Helmick

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Re: Legacy Build
« Reply #292 on: February 28, 2022, 06:24:00 PM »
If your Ace bandage makes ripples in the Object d' Art, once it's stabilized, apply a bit of water to swell the wood back up to OEM condition. It'll remove much of the ripples, if not all.  S?P Steve
"The United States has become a place where professional athletes and entertainers are mistaken for people of importance." - Robert Heinlein

In 1944 18-20 year old's stormed beaches, and parachuted behind enemy lines to almost certain death.  In 2015 18-20 year old's need safe zones so people don't hurt their feelings.

Offline Tim Wescott

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Re: Legacy Build
« Reply #293 on: February 28, 2022, 06:25:03 PM »
If your Ace bandage makes ripples in the Object d' Art, once it's stabilized, apply a bit of water to swell the wood back up to OEM condition. It'll remove much of the ripples, if not all.  S?P Steve

I did, and it did.
AMA 64232

The problem with electric is that once you get the smoke generator and sound system installed, the plane is too heavy.

Offline Tim Wescott

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Re: Legacy Build
« Reply #294 on: March 05, 2022, 10:48:47 AM »
Started shaping the sides of the cowl and then noticed that the scoop was offset from the spinner.  Decided "aw heck, I'll just make up a story about how control line planes are inherently asymmetrical".

Looked at it again this morning & decided that no, I wanted to fix it.  So I sanded a bit of a wedge into the front where it butts up against the spinner ring.  That moved the front over, but it also meant that I was out of wood on one side (wood that I carved off a day or two ago :o).

So -- sand in a flat spot, grab some scrap wood & some Ambroid, and make a patch.  It should make a nice ridge in the covering when I'm trying to make it all flat and shiny.
AMA 64232

The problem with electric is that once you get the smoke generator and sound system installed, the plane is too heavy.

Offline Tim Wescott

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Re: Legacy Build
« Reply #295 on: April 19, 2022, 10:08:37 PM »
I should post a picture of the scoop as it is now.  For the moment, just take my word that it's actually on the pretty side, and it should work pretty well, too, which means it'll meet my minimal definition of "pretty".

For the moment, I leave you with this.  Filling a toilet paper tube with polyurethane foam makes sense given what I'm doing and what's in my shop.  Really, honest, it does!  And having my tape and salsa container contraption fail when it did in the curing cycle is actually better than if it overflowed on my tube.  So, a small success.
AMA 64232

The problem with electric is that once you get the smoke generator and sound system installed, the plane is too heavy.

Offline Tim Wescott

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Re: Legacy Build
« Reply #296 on: April 20, 2022, 05:41:52 PM »
Scoop as it is now.  Sanding will happen on the fuse just behind it, to fair it in.
AMA 64232

The problem with electric is that once you get the smoke generator and sound system installed, the plane is too heavy.

Offline Tim Wescott

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Re: Legacy Build
« Reply #297 on: April 20, 2022, 07:41:20 PM »
There's that toilet paper tube again.  Gonna put some balsa on to soak.  Just -- because.
AMA 64232

The problem with electric is that once you get the smoke generator and sound system installed, the plane is too heavy.

Offline Tim Wescott

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Re: Legacy Build
« Reply #298 on: May 07, 2022, 02:47:20 PM »
I've been trying to get a scale plane painted before the Regionals this coming Memorial day.  But that's all masked up and I'm waiting for no rain.

In the mean time, slight progress has been made.  It's baffling, but there's a reason I did it.
AMA 64232

The problem with electric is that once you get the smoke generator and sound system installed, the plane is too heavy.

Offline Tim Wescott

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Re: Legacy Build
« Reply #299 on: May 10, 2022, 09:47:29 AM »
The inside of the air scoop will be visible from the ground.  So it's going to get at least a lick and a promise at finishing (and I wanted to get some paper on there, for strength).

Paper is the wrapping that DigiKey uses when they pack electronics components.  It looks & acts like Esaki tissue (except for the printing).  I used it in a bunch of spots on the Ercoupe project for patching mistakes.  It seems to be working -- so we'll see.

When I'm done, I'll paint it flat black so that any remaining ugly doesn't show.

Also seen, I'm making a start on the electronics tray.  This will go in the base of the battery compartment, leaving me (I hope!) lots of room to move the battery around for balance.
AMA 64232

The problem with electric is that once you get the smoke generator and sound system installed, the plane is too heavy.


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